So conflicted and confused about my mum

[Mummyissues]

I'll try to condense this. Just feeling emotional about my mum and not really looking for answers as such maybe solidarity, other people's experiences, support, to vent?

I'm early 30sF, raising young children, challenging professional career, mum is 70 and my parents still together.

Mum is (I believe) an emotionally damaged person - endured abandonment, neglect and emotional/physical abuse as a child and sadly this has shaped her entire life. I also do wonder if she could be autistic, hard to separate. She is needy/dependent, anxious, obsessive, ritualistic, pessimistic, has a completely external locus of control, and hasn't worked or done much of anything in decades due to her mixed mental and physical health problems. She could never play and has always struggled with playfulness/humour etc. She doesn't help herself with her problems, she retreats from challenges and relies on others. She has never really been able to have friends and has struggled with all relationships throughout life.

I know almost every detail of her life, because from as early as I can remember I was her therapist. I have always concealed my own sorrows/ difficulties from her, since a very young age I've known she's not up to dealing with my stuff.

When I was growing up she could be mad, like crazy scary mad. It wasn't all the time but regular enough to have an impact. She would have these paranoid obsessions over what she perceived to be slights and she would go on screaming tirades and I would have to calm her and sympathise with her and reason with her. Sometimes she would rant for days. I had too much responsibility for her, I remember feeling responsible for calming her down, responsible for stopping her from harming herself, responsible for keeping my parents marriage together, responsible for being the perfect daughter etc. I can't even face up to how I feel about my Dad leaving me to deal with her or why he did next to nothing about this. I think he didn't know what to do. I almost need my relationship with my Dad to be simple and okay - currently it's not what's on my mind but I'm just addressing it as I know people reading this will be thinking "and what about Dad?", not unreasonably.

Mum said some very cruel things to me when she felt I was disloyal along the lines I'm cruel, I'm selfish, I'm a schemer etc. She never did this in a cold or calculating way, but when at the height of her emotional crises. I now realise, more like a toddler saying mean things to their mum. Nevertheless I was a child and she was my mum - so these comments have quite literally played on my mind for years and I believe caused me many emotional problems over the years.

Things like Christmas I always found v stressful because of her drama. I would hate the holidays and found refuge in school. At times I'd fantasise she would go away, or die, so I wouldn't have to deal with all her raging and screaming. Her issues... Spoiled a lot of my childhood. There were some good times too, family games, shared interests. I've always been of central importance in her life, really her only friend so the one thing I'd say is never felt "unloved" but maybe unseen.

Anyway, 2 things happened - I grew up and moved out at uni and never moved back. She also got older and just, got less crazy? It's like the screaming, mad side of her burned out; but the dependent, helpless and weak side is all that's left. She doesn't even really do anything bad or offensive anymore which leaves me feeling so unreasonable.

After I had my first baby it triggered this huge reflection in me about motherhood and I went through a phase of very very consumed with going over old memories, bitter resentment and almost hatred.

But all along I have always also pitied her. I never confronted her, I know it would be pointless and she would be pathetic about it and I would just wind up feeling ashamed. Even though I've made her sound so awful I couldn't bear to break her heart. She can be sweet and caring, almost suffocatingly so at times. She's always been very interested in me, provided for me and I believe she does love me very much, she just can't be more than who she is. I now believe she has done her very best for me, she didn't do it on purpose and I pity her very deeply - but it doesn't change that she hurt me or that I can't, I guess, respect her? Love her as I should? But I do love her also! I'm so confused.

I'm so outrageously jealous of people who just have capable mothers who actually mother them, not the other way round. Because of my young children I go to groups etc and I meet the other grandmother's and the envy I feel is something else. I just want a mum who sees and understands me and isn't all about her own issues. Even the way she is with my children sometimes gives me the creeps, I can't explain why. It's like she loves them but she wants to feed off them. And I work with a lot of brilliant women in their 50s, 60s etc and so often I think God I just wish you were my mum.

Well, now she is frail, she is suffering. It's a mix of physical health problems and her choosing (not quite the right word) to deal with them in the least constructive way possible. As in - something becomes uncomfortable she stops doing it or even trying to do it. She has become preoccupied with her pointless and consuming daily health-adjacent rituals. She restricts her eating and is thin and frail partly as a result of this also. She has no life, doesn't leave the house. Functionally this is obviously terrible and it's like she's 90 years old.

I feel like I've already cared enough for a lifetime and all that's left is resentment? I resent her for being old and weak, yet again not the mother or grandmother I long for. But it's not her fault she's ill and she is suffering! I don't want her to suffer.

My fit and healthy Dad too busy caring for her to be involved in my life or enjoy his retirement. I have this awful admission that sometimes I fantasise about her death. This makes me feel like an awful person, like all the worst things she said to me when I was a child are completely true. I am cruel, I am disloyal and selfish. I fear that one day, possibly one day soon, she will die and the guilt and conflict I'll feel is going to completely fuck me up. And there is much I do love about her, I do love her and I won't appreciate how much I do, until she's gone and it's too late.

Can anyone relate? I literally can't afford to go to therapy right now I'm broke but I also don't even know what I would seek to get out of it. I can't change who she is. I had come to peace thinking "this is what she's like, I accept that she is herself traumatised and tried her best" and then something triggers me (I have been triggered by a friend losing their mother unexpectedly and them being really devastated because she's so wonderful / so important to them etc and I'm thinking - Jesus Christ what am I going to say at my mother's funeral?).

Aggh! Sorry this is such a confused ramble

It's not confused, I understand. I think the way you feel is very understandable.

At your mother's funeral you can tell people that you just can't find the words and keep your thoughts to yourself if you wish.

Counselling might help when you can afford it, because you are describing it flaring up at times and it might be nice to have even more peace.

Yes I can relate to a lot of what you say. I don’t know what the answer is but for me I’ve had to put boundaries in place, walk away when her behavior becomes overwhelming and stop trying to be a therapist to my mother, it’s not my job and it damages my own mental health. I avoid getting into deep discussions about her life etc and just try to keep it cordial and superficial.

I think I am very aware of her mortality because she has become so frail and because of things like my friend's mother dying. I had this thought - it should have been my mother that died instead because she isn't really living anyway. Why should it be my friend's mother that died, the one that was such a good mother? I honestly think maybe there is something seriously wrong with me that that's where my mind went.

I made my peace with never letting mum know how I felt. I still think that is the right decision, to turn the other cheek. For her to think that I didn't believe she was a good mother would shatter her heart and I just can't see any good come from it. I don't think I could forgive myself if I hurt her just because I could. Maybe like the way she hurt me with her cruel words when I was helpless.

But one day, she will die and then the opportunity, the possibility of being truthful with her will be gone forever. And I find that challenging too.

The thing is she doesn't really do anything offensive now. I think the power balance has shifted and she doesn't push her luck. Or maybe she just doesn't have the energy for it anymore. She doesn't even guilt trip me anymore.

And yes it is very superficial and light. She sometimes talks to me at length about her problems and I sort of day dream or pretend to be listening and honestly, she doesn't notice. Often I quite like her company in a superficial way. That's why I am so confused. She's not a monster she's just a slightly boring old lady.

???

I am so very sorry for you. You've been dealt a shitty hand that's for sure. Apportioning blame won't help of course but your dad has let you and her down big time. He should have sought help for her, to take the responsibility from you as a child but it seems he chose not to.
You understand her and you have tremendous empathy for her and you love her. She's a very lucky woman but will probably never see that.
When she passes her anguish will be over but that will be the time that you will need help and support, please do all you can to look after yourself now but particularly then. None of her anguish is your fault; sadly you've been her rock but the adults should never allowed this to be put on you. Sending you sincerest best wishes.

Ah my love. I too had a dysfunctional parental relationship and it took having my own kids to bring it all into stark relief. I've been in therapy for 3+ years, processing the trauma and coming to terms with it all. I'm not quite there yet.

It's brutally hard to accept them and that they'll never change. There are many ways of then deciding how you want to move forwards once you do. I've taken different paths with each of my parents.

I don't know what advice to give beyond therapy because it was my way forward. But I would recommend contacting therapists, explaining your situation and asking if they would do any pro bono or discounted work because I'm told (by mine) that so many do. But you've done so well even being able to articulate your issues, I wasn't capable of even that it was such a mess. It's a great starting place. Hopefully people will be along with more practical immediate advice, but wanted to say I hear you. Everything you said makes sense. Your pain is perfectly understandable. I hope you have people round you who tell you that too.

We have mothers with very similar personalities.
I also had to be her counsellor while I was growing up and take her side in everything that she felt victimised by.
It is exhausting.

I'm so sorry.

You might find this thread helpful:

January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4991681-january-2024-well-we-took-you-to-stately-homes

I don’t have any answers but can relate to a lot of what you say too. It’s really tough. Sending you big hugs. Therapy might help when you have the funds. Nothing can really compensate for not being mothered, sadly. It’s very sad. At least you know your mother did her best and loves you.

I do recognise this about my Dad but in a sense he was abused. She used to insult and threaten him. She used to tell him he was abusing her, he was an evil man, she was going to divorce him and take the children and he'd never see us again. She used to threaten self harm, scream in his face, slam doors. Not all the time of course but when she was really bad.

I vividly remember thinking "what if they get divorced" - thinking I'd want desperately to live with my Dad, fantasising about what it would be like to live just with him, but also thinking of that happened my mum would probably kill herself and I couldn't be the one to cause her to do that. So I would have to fucking choose her and hardly see my Dad. It terrified me.

He was gentle, easy going, playful, fun. And not just "Disney Dad" he also earned all the money, did nearly all of cooking, chores etc mum just wasn't capable of doing. And in a probably dysfunctional way he was always loyal to her and has stayed loyal to her.

I sometimes think what was his upbringing like to land him in this situation - but I literally don't know because unlike mum he never dumped his trauma on me.

Unfortunately I think he coped with what she was like by pretending it wasn't happening / avoidance / minimising it. Not great but I think he would have been fine / good enough as a parent on his own. Certain comments by his family, which I heard about via mum raging and ranting when I was too young to really get it, I now understand (as an adult) were them expressing a concern for him being married to her / them desiring an end possibly to their relationship which of course absolutely enraged her.

Do not judge yourself for imagining her dead. Unfortunately she should never have been a mother, because she wasn’t built for it.

When people come on here saying they don’t want children and posters try to persuade them to go ahead and have them, I could scream. I think ”yes go ahead and have them and be a horrible mother (I’m sure some would be all right but ..) and make a child who didn’t ask to be born really unhappy.

You have been unlucky @Mummyissues. Imagine a friend telling you all of this had happened to them. You wouldn’t be surprised at all if they just wished it was all over, would you?

I identify. I too have a lovely Dad and similar kind of mother.
Your Dad couldn’t win really. If he’d left she would have made life desperately difficult. She would have probably weaponised you and your sibling(s).

He probably had no clue how to stop her behaviour.

It will hopefully be a blessed relief when she does sotmc.

I could have written your OP. For my
sanity I had to step away from the relationship as she couldn’t stick to any boundaries given.

sending gentle hugs and it’s really hard navigating the relationship and all the mental anguish that goes with it.

Take care and make sure that you look after yourself. Try not to allow the situation too much headspace if possible - but make designated time to try and work through everything that is going on - and has happened. If you can access therapy at some point I think it would be beneficial - just to get some clarity to your thoughts ( although your post here shows you already have a pretty good idea what is happening and has happened ). It’s really difficult trying to manage that conflict of emotions.

How about writing her a letter? Get it all down and tell her what's on your mind. Then burn it. It may help you to get your feelings out into the open and you may get some release.

It makes her sound so awful but it's also really obvious she's not done any of this on purpose and she's never truly been happy. Which is very very sad. She also, to her credit was much better than her own mother. She was beaten and neglected. She never beat anyone up, and always looked out, almost hyper anxiously for our physical needs. I think she just truly didn't comprehend she was emotionally abusive. Nor were these outbursts all the time. It's like she was mostly a sort of meek person, relying more on guilt tripping but with this angry scary witch that came out when she was triggered.

The rage also hasn't really made an appearance in years and years now. She doesn't do anything that needs boundaries. Now it's more like what she doesn't do - she doesn't help herself (and by proxy my Dad), because she just gives up on herself, and I find that frustrating. I know she is frightened and I feel sorry for her.

First of all I want to say that you are going to break this cycle for your daughter. I am incredibly proud of you for doing that - you must give yourself a really big pat on the back for that.

Second of all, you must congratulate and be proud of yourself for not attacking your mother who, despite having caused you a lot of pain, you recognise is a victim herself. This means you are a very strong person. When she passes, you will feel relief but also pride that you truly did your best and treated her well.

Thirdly, be kind to yourself. When you feel your mind drifting to the past, I find it helps to imagine myself as a child and imagine my mother behaving as I would have wanted her to behave and then comforting the child, ie me. It is a way of psychologically comforting myself.

Thank you everyone you have been so kind I honestly didn't expect every single person who responded to be really kind and understanding

Just venting/explaining has really helped me to feel more clear and calm tbh

@Yolo12345 I have never tried that particular mental exercise I might give that a go!

I totally identify and I feel for you.

I coped with a dysfunctional parental relationship by distancing myself and reducing visits to fortnightly. The resultant criticism has been tough - and I’m still there when issues arise and take care of admin etc as the dutiful daughter - but boundaries have helped ME as I was miserable and burning out.

I decided, years ago, to throw my energy into bringing up my own child (and my career) as a single parent. I distanced myself geographically. My child has now grown up, I’ve never regretted my decision. I didn’t have an understanding of good parenting so tried to create the opposite of my childhood so that my child felt loved and secure. I didn’t get everything right but none of us are perfect, I did my best. We are close and my child is succeeding in life. We each have a circle of lovely friends. We can talk comfortably with each other. I hope to have the opportunity to become the type of grandparent you referenced one day.

Please try to drop the guilt and focus on yourself. I believe it’s still possible to get a handful of free therapy sessions on the NHS… or, sometimes, through your workplace. This helped me, as has talking (occasionally) to friends; we support each other. There are also some excellent podcasts that highlight you’re not alone in this and listening to other people’s coping mechanisms really helps.

I have come to terms with the fact that my mother will never be the person I want her to be and vice versa. She can only be who she is, she must have had a difficult start in life. I have never felt loved or approved of by her but I no longer feel the need for this. I did try to directly approach some of the issues with her as an adult (she had a near death experience so I naively saw this as a last chance to forge a relationship with her) but it failed spectacularly so I wouldn’t recommend this. I think burning a letter is a much better idea!

I have broken the chain with my own child, that’s everything I could have hoped for given the circs. We don’t all win the lottery when it comes to mothers but we can significantly improve life for ourselves and the next generation.

Please take good care of yourself. I wish you luck in forging a new way of coping.

My mother is similar and I too fantasise of a life where she is not still around. Really it’s not that I wish she was dead, I wish the weight of the relationship with her was gone. Like yourself, I am going through the motions of a relationship because I don’t see any point in confrontation. In the past , it actually would be the trigger for literally years of her justifying whatever was pointed out. It would be brought up again and again. She never forgets or changes. But now she is elderly and widowed. She is the same as ever, but with her filters completely turned off. But the power dynamic is different. Rationally, I can rise above it, do the ‘grey rock’, set boundaries etc. But deep down, I am on edge all the time, and hold quite a bit of resentment. I can’t walk away - it would dump everything on my sibling. Her sister is in her 90s, and I fear that she will live long too, if I’m honest.

I’ve a few close friends who I can say this out loud to. I think it helps because otherwise, that’s just another burden. You mention working with some great women in their 50/60s - I’m in my 50s. I see you are early 30s. I find that my female friendships are closer, more honest etc now than when I was younger. Open up to some trusted people - older women will recognise what you are trying to process.
You sound like a lovely person, by the way x

It is not your fault your mother is like this and you did not make her that way. Her own family did that and thankfully the familial dysfunction that has seeped down the generations has stopped with you.

Would you have tolerated any of this from a friend, unlikely.

Your mother indeed had a difficult start in life but instead of seeking the necessary help co-opted you as her child to be her therapist; a role you were never meant to have. You're very empathetic too so ideal for a narcissist. She had a choice when it came to you and she has caused similar harm to you as to what was done to her in her childhood. She did this because she knew no different and felt entitled to do so. She's also had a willing enabler in your dad; he is a weak bystander of a man who has also let you as his daughter down abjectly. He failed to protect you from the excesses of his wife's behaviours. In a straight fight he'd likely choose her over you even now. I would certainly keep any child well away from the two of them. You do not need their approval and they will never give you that anyway.

Many narcissistic women do what you have written re your mother and I would suggest you read about NPD and other related personality disorders and see how much of this relates to her behaviours and your relationship with her. ASD as well is a triad of social impairments and absolutely nothing you wrote about her suggests ASD.

You will ultimately need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. Deal with any residual fear, obligation and guilt through therapy. Have a read of the website Out of the FOG and do consider reading the current well we took you to Stately Homes thread on these Relationships pages.

@Mummyissues Wow, I could have written your post about my own mother, and I've never met anyone who's had a mother like mine before. Much of my childhood was spent treading on eggshells in case she went off on one of her days-long rants. She's in her 80s now, still with my dad, who has always treated her with kid gloves in a bid to keep her emotional neediness and anxiety at bay. Dysfunctional doesn't even come close to describing my family growing up. I'm a fair bit older than you, kids are teens now, but I totally relate to the mix of anger and guilt towards your mum, jealousy of all the things you've missed out on and are still missing out on. Ive felt almost unbearable jealousy towards friends who have wonderful mothers they can rely on both emotionally and physically, especially once the kids came along. It's hard. I've been in therapy for the last two years, and it's been a revelation. I hadn't realised just how much she has influenced (some might say ruined) my life. It's an ongoing process, I don't think I'll ever come to terms with the damage she's done, especially as she has no clue and thinks she's done a wonderful job. I know you said you have no money for therapy, but could you go to the GP and be put on a waiting list for free therapy? It's the only thing that has helped me. It's an ongoing process, there's no "cure", but I am gradually starting to dissociate from her and accept my lot in life. It bloody hurts though and feels terribly unfair. Hugs. X

Similar mother here. It took having my own children to realise just how awful a parent she was. I would never in a million years treat my children the way she did. I went VLC (email/letters only), moved 450 miles away and honestly won't feel anything when she dies. Having a personality-disordered mother is hard. Hope you find peace, OP.

@Vestito

"Really it’s not that I wish she was dead, I wish the weight of the relationship with her was gone"

Thank you this is a really helpful reframing for me.

@changemyways sounds like we have very similar mothers/parents. Kid gloves, eggshells - yes yes yes. It was never acknowledged either, apart from sideways remarks like "you know what your mother is like". It was like, the whole family pretending that this kind of behaviour is normal and/or okay, or actually, like it didn't happen at all. I think it did change how I lived my life in late teens and twenties, when most people "break away" and make their own identity. I feel as though I failed to do that in that I dived headfirst into a professional career straight out of school and did everything by the book - no risk, no rebellion of any kind. Ironically this makes me parents see my as the epitome of parenting success!

@AttilaTheMeerkat

I think she does have some narcissistic traits but the description of narcissism doesn't capture her fully.

But yes I identify a lot with FOG, it was only after I had my own children that I unlocked having feelings of anger and resentment about all of this, and truly saw my parents. It's really horrible to admit this, but I had my first child earlier than I might have done, and this was largely out of consideration for my parents and their age. I went straight from putting my parents first to putting my children first. I wouldn't change my wonderful children for all the world but I were to give a past parallel universe self advice - I would encourage her to emotionally cut my parents loose and be truly selfish before having children.

The autism thing I wonder because of some traits such as difficulty with social cues, difficulty with humour, intense hyper focused interests/obsessions, very marked difficulties around transition or change of any kind, reliance on routine and ritual, black and white thinking. The autism though wasn't the cause of the abusive behaviours like the shouting, threatening and raging. It's more like, I wonder about it as a possible factor that has made life a little trickier for her. And I wonder if it's contributing a lot to how she approaches her health / functioning on her old age. Eg she got used to not leaving the house so now she won't leave the house. She's very fixated on eg listening to her radio programmes at the exact time she listens to them every day and can't deviate from that routine. She has to sit at the same place at the table no matter what. She's always been that way it's just become more pronounced/ obvious because her world has grown smaller.

"In a straight fight he'd likely choose her over you even now" unfortunately I think deep down I know that this is true and I find that very painful and sad.

My mum no longer behaves badly so now so I am left with a sort of cordial, superficial relationship. She hasn't been cruel or guilt tripped me in years. It's not necessary to grey rock. But my mum being so needy and acopic and unavailable (and making my Dad unavailable) makes me feel resentful and pitiless.

Her mother was abusive toward her so she in turn did similar harm to you. She had a choice when it came to you and she chose to do the same as was done to her. There is no justification or excuse for her actions and choices. She made you a confidant and you were but a child at the time. She trained you to put her needs first with your own dead last.

Your dad has chosen to stay with her for his own reasons but will still throw you under the bus to avoid her wrath and narcissistic rage.

People like your mother have no filter and although less physically able still have a sharp tongue, any authority figures she was actually afraid of have long since died off. She has NO empathy and no sense of humour. It’s of no surprise to me that she has no friends, she cannot do relationships at all and has driven people away.

Again nothing that you write of re her suggests ASD. ASD is also not a mental health issue. What you describe re her behaviour is far more likely due to she having untreated and untreatable personality disorder/s.