Do “narcissistic” type abusers set out to “abuse” and “destroy” or is this just the by product?

[Rainbow03]

When I’ve read in the past about this kind of abuse It often reads that they are monsters seeking out someone to destroy.

In my own experience he seemed clueless to what he was doing. I didn’t feel like he woke up thinking he’d throw something today.

Do they just genuinely believe that their partner is there for their own benefit and have no thoughts or feelings of their own and their purpose is to make them feel good?

Make no mistake. People with NPD are dangerous to be around. (Some people are just arseholes, not to be confused with the genuine NPD.)

There is no reasoning with such people. Their thinking is so disordered that any attempt you make at reasoning with them is not only a waste of your breath, but potentially dangerous to you. Anything and everything you say will be used in evidence against you.

Don't bother trying to work them out, or reason with them. Save yourself and get as far away from them as you can.

Do not engage with them at all, on any level.

You are nothing more than a pawn in their theatre of life.

This sounds awful, but not narcissistic.

hnmmm @GingerIsBest yeah he sounds unhinged but my understanding of narcissism is that they don’t want to look unhinged so this behaviour would be too outing.

I've been wondering about a family member of mine. She is always always complaining about people behind their backs, she talks about me (and my children), behind my back. She forgets i know her very well and how nasty she is about everyone. She's said things like 'it's amazing, as long as you laugh you can say anything at all to people'. Recently I idly said 'Brian' is a nice guy, easy going. 'Brian' was doing some work on her house, i was just chit chatting. She immediately said 'Brian' is awful actually, extremely right wing (she's very right wing). And I realised she can't stand it if you say anything pleasant about anyone. She was laughing about having made a guest of hers cry and that she had confused the guest who ended up apologising for crying. I'm very careful around her as i think she's a very dangerous person. I know from things that she has said that she feels like she is a very good person and extremely generous (she is not). She also genuinely feels very aggrieved each time she receives a gift if it doesn't exactly match hers in value, she always checks the price online. So, no, i don't think she wakes up with any machieavellian plans but I do think she wakes up determined that no one will 'get one over on her'. And all her opinions are viewed through a really bizarre prism of complete self interest.

In my untutored view, I think they are deeply flawed individuals who believe that life revolves around them, and they will do whatever is necessary to achieve what they want. And yes, some of them do enjoy making others suffer.

A lady in the freedom programme I attended had a terribly abusive but extremely immature partner that didn’t hide his abusiveness. He bragged,I think are lots of non narcissistic awful people out there who probably do seek to destroy but I’m not sure they are narcissists.

This. Try to avoid having children with one of these! (😫)

Do they just genuinely believe that their partner is there for their own benefit and have no thoughts or feelings of their own and their purpose is to make them feel good?

yes, I think so.

@Unexpectedlysinglemum I did and it’s bloody hell on earth!!! Can’t co parent, can’t pass on msgs from school without him reacting as he feels blame when it’s not about him….everything is always about him. It’s like talking to a 4 year old!

It’s a good question. I think with their being as manipulative as they are, they must be aware but simply don’t care about anything but their ego stroking objectives.

That’s why we are told that to tell them they have narcissistic traits is futile. It’s not as if they scratch their heads and then go over their past in the same way as adults with ADHD and ASD with eureka moments here and there. Adults with other conditions will often unilaterally seek a diagnosis if it is affecting their relationships, jobs etc. It is rare for a narcissist to seek help and they only tend to get it if perhaps they have had a major breakdown and entered the MH system that way.

Oh dear I literally feel your pain - walking on eggshells just as much as I did in the relationship despite doing all of the work for our child if I say or do anything that implies we're not equal parents I get harassed by a lawyer within a week 🙈

My narcassist ex didn't recognise how to treat people. He was a very solo thinker and inherently selfish. I felt sorry for him because he didn't seem to understand it was abusive but now after my therapist has shown me it was abuse, I believe he was a narcissist but didn't mean to be

They make terrible parents as they have zero emotional intelligence or empathy. They see children as malleable pawns that they can bend into whatever shape they want. If (when) the child does not comply, the child is punished. Emotional punishment is guaranteed. Physical punishment often follows.

It is not possible to co-parent with a narcissist.

This presents the non-narc parent with an impossible situation. All they can do is take whatever steps they can to protect the child. This is exhausting. It requires ultra-vigilance at every turn, and can lead to high conflict. Any parent in this situation would be well-advised to seek help from agencies such as Women's Aid to signpost them towards support.

I think they do set out to abuse. They don't see any problem with it. In fact it is their right in their eyes.

@Sicario Im lucky that he found a lovely new partner. He moved in and she as pregnant within a year. She basically looks after our daughter when it’s contact every other weekend. I’m grateful for that as on his own he was awful.

That poor woman. I wonder if she realises she has partnered with an emotional parasite yet. It's only ever a matter of time.

"Narcissist" has become a fashionable umbrella term for all kinds of immaturity, which tends to go hand in hand with selfishness, lack of insight, and often manipulative behaviour.

I'm struggling immensely with the realisation that people I've relied on are narcissistic and one I feel is incredibly dangerous. I have severe health problems and have always wanted my 13 year old to be close with cousins he adores. The price has been high yet it has now become horrendous. Every trait of narcissism is there; history of abuse, racist, mysogny, hurting their animals, severe aggression against partners and children, severe aggression toward me. It's taken a lifetime to truly see it and how toxic it is. I've had to pull away and my child is upset as would tolerate a fair bit to see cousin. Narc has gone to people to try discredit including my ex!

How on earth do I protect my child. I'm getting sicker and will likely lose care of them soon. I have a family member who helps alot and cares alot for child but is a huge enabler of this bully. My ex probably won't believe the extent of what he's done or choose to ignore it. I do t know tbh as ex has done some gaslighting in the past yet they aren't dangerous to the extent my male sibling is. Kids are being used as pawns and I've had to try explain this to my 13 year old. Yet I am going to be perceived as the issue - because I'm so unwell and weak and vulnerable. I honestly have no one in this toxic dynamic. I have 2 friends who know exactly what this person is capable of. I have no clue how to protect my child. If I'm not here I fear they'll somehow become a victim.

@Rainbow03

I think 🤔 it depends on each given situation they are in
I think it can be a combo of both by product and intention
inevitability shit show whatever the reason behind this or and the outcome..

@cerisepanther73 I know for certain he got a bee in his bonnet about fellow employees if they were too big headed. He would get them removed because he was queen bee. That was intentional. I don’t think mine was/is that much self aware to intentionally go into relationships to be abusive. But like you said, same shit show outcome.

@Pantaloons99 that sounds very hard. I think you should start your own thread and provide more detail there so people can advise you.

Overall, NC with a bully (or narcissist) is the way forward. If you are ill, you should be looking into whatever legal processes you can implement now to protect your child in the future.

@Rainbow03 taking against people at work would, if he's truly a narcissist, not be seen as him doing it because they are upstaging him. He would 100% believe that their behaviour is a problem and that it is better for everyone if they are gone.

@GingerIsBest he knew they didn’t like him so he wanted them gone. They didn’t project the person outwardly that he wanted. He needed to be admired by the staff and look to be the helpful trainer when he was after admiration and staff saying how nice and amazing he was. Definitely narcissistic in my book.

Oh yes, I completely agree. Classic narcissism. My point was simply that he doesn't see what he did as manipulative, toxic or in the slightest bit inappropriate. That's what makes it so narcissistic - he genuinely believed it was the right thing to do.

That's the difference between him (narcissist) and say my 13 year old DS who recently engineered a fight between him and his friends and a bully and his friends. DS knew perfectly well it was wrong, but he did it anyway because he was so angry with the bully. A narcissist would think it was perfectly justified and be furious that anyone might call him out on it.

Ah yes @GingerIsBest in his own head he was removing non team players so it was a good thing. The way he went about it was nasty and underhanded.

Exactly.

I really do think this is the very difficult think about (covert in particular) narcissists. And it's why people struggle so much to move on from relationships with them. It's impossible to get closure or to ever get them to accept any responsibility for bad things because they just don't see it. To them, it's all completely normal and reasonable.

exBIL has a key to SIL's house. He honestly and truly does not understand why she has told him he can't just let himself in whenever he likes. He also does not understand why he can't just hang out at her house if he's in the area and she's working. He is absolutely LIVID that everyone keeps telling him that he can't. He has now, begrudgingly, agreed NOT to let himself in anymore, while simultaneously saying things like, "I have every right to be here but fine, I will compromise for her, but what is she compromising for me?"

Your mind just wants to explode.