Do women often feel invisible in relationships and conditioned to accept less?

[Rainbow03]

I’ve just got this nagging feeling (and it may just be me and my circumstances) that we are just expected to be a certain way and to put ourselves aside? Not to be too much of anything, to be liked! To be good partners and good mums, to prop them up and accept nothing in return.

Are we conditioned to be less and expect less as women?

Yes but I am not sure how it happens - the conditioning?

I only know one or two couples like this.

Recognising it must be half the battle though - that's if you're talking about your own situation?

Well, think about it. I think a lot of us grew up watching a mum (who had a day job) rushing around, cleaning up, doing laundry, doing washing up, while Dad, who was 'tired' had his feet up and was reading his book or newspaper or watching telly. That's going to have an effect I guess. I definitely think men are conditioned to expect their time and effort to be sacrosanct and to be given when they choose, and women that we are interruptable and at others' service. I've been trying hard to break that myself.

This sums it up well! Men themselves remember that model and expect the same too

A relative of mine has two kids, one a boy and one a girl. The boy is encouraged and supported to pursue his interests and favourite sport. Dad takes him off at weekends to matches. The mum is one of those mothers who has no interests or hobbies of her own, her life revolves around her family and helping other relatives, and the daughter often accompanies her. The son is learning personal fulfilment and autonomy, and the daughter is learning the opposite. It's pretty depressing seeing it pass so seamlessly from one generation to the next.

Yes. Unfortunately this is how we are being raised and this is what society very subtly teaches us. It is sad and so unfair on us.

Certainly not in my experience. But I think it depends on if you are seeking out relationships with men who only want a little woman to make them sandwiches and iron their shirts. I've almost always been the 'bigger' one in relationships - more educated, bigger career, louder and more assertive. Now dh is perfectly well educated, has a good career, and is a completely acceptable grown up, but I definitely have the more prestigious sounding career and am the more visible, outspoken one. That's maybe partly a personality thing and partly just the sort of people we are - dh has often said he'd hate to have a partner who just wanted to stay at home and had no ambition.

I think you attract what you put out there. That's not to blame anyone for their situation. But if you are quick to make yourself small for someone, you'll attract someone who wants a woman who can just be a good wife and mother and won't demand much else.

No, I know women who convince themselves but they have choices they can choose positive ones if they want

There is only so much people can blame conditioning/society etc. for their own choices