Hong Kong Marriage

[Awakeinhongkong]

Appreciate anyone’s thoughts, I think I might be driving myself mad and I have lost all perspective mainly because I feel I am living in a huge goldfish bowl.
A year ago I relocated to Hong Kong with 2 DC’s aged 11 and 8 because of my DH work. He was previously working in London but business need prompted this move. It now looks like this will be a long term position as my DH has recently signed a contract for a further 3 years.

I initially did not want to uproot the DC’s from school/friends etc because I/we were unsure how long DH might be required for ( initially to fill in for someone who had been sent elsewhere in Asia) so, for the first year I just went over to Hong Kong for holidays with the DC's and some very long weekends.

I actually loved it when I visited and so when the post became a permanent need, I wasn’t too concerned about moving out here. It did take a lot of arrangement but fortunately, the recent Covid years did mean a few more places were available at choice of School for the DC’s and they have now settled in really well. They have friends, and a lot of activities.

It is so completely different to UK though; we live in an apartment a quarter of the size of our UK home, and we have a domestic help which is something I am not used to but to be honest, she is great and the DC’s love her. It also frees me up from the day to day stuff, and I have made a few friends with other wives which keeps me sort of sane and I know its early days so am hoping I will meet more people eventually. I am not really a ‘corporate wife’ type - if there is one and I'd say there is - so sometimes I do feel a bit out of my comfort zone but because it looks unlikely I will be able to work - mainly because I speak only English - I realise I need to network a bit.

Other parents have been welcoming although I do notice the ‘competition’ at the school gate, but to be honest, I was also getting used to that in UK too, so it hasn’t been a shock.

What I am worrying about sounds a bit stupid because at the moment I have no real need to worry. But, I am worried and because this place is actually quite small, and the circles intertwine, I feel quite stuck in terms of being able to openly discuss my concerns with what are very new friends.

Ok, so what I can see, and hear of, is the entirely repellant ‘cheating’ culture here that seems to be accepted as part and parcel of being married to an expat in Hong Kong.

I am astonished really and it is so outside of my zone, its feels like I've stepped into another world. I do realise many many couples have affairs and infidelity is common wherever you are, but over here, it feels like it is expected and accepted.

Firstly, I heard that my DH’s senior/manager/boss, has been conducting an ‘affair’ with an Asian woman here for the past 6 years….discovered by his wife although now she ’turns a blind eye’ or perhaps she doesnt but its still going on.

Then it became clear that at least two of the guys in my DH office, and they are guys he socialises with, are also having similar relationships. Basically, the women they are seeing are prostitutes who provide an exclusive service - with a huge monthly fee usually including a rent paid apartment and a maintenance budget. Basically very very expensive.

I have no idea if the wives of the two guys actually know, but, it is pretty much an open secret. My two ‘closer’ girlfriends here told me the in a very matter of fact way, and weren’t at all shocked.

They seem to have all the information, and to be fair I am not sure that either of them know the two ‘betrayed’ wives but from the feeling I get, I don’t think they would feel any inclination to tell them. Its seems very much that old adage of 'what goes on in HK stays in HK' I havent yet met any other wives from my DH' office but now Im dreading doing so, knowing what I know, and it is a very small place.

I have kept slightly aloof from the details tht have been discussed over lunches/coffee’s etc, but one of them sensed I was getting a bit nervous ( and I was) and they basically were quite light hearted and said that it was so common, that as long as the House and Pension were ‘kept’ that their DH was almost welcome to mess around. I was shocked. I don't think I hid it and the subject was quickly changed.

I said that I would feel sure that I would ‘know’ if my DH was doing the same, but then I thought, but would I ?

The two friends said it wasn’t easy to find out and he would be certain to keep it all covered up…that the ‘meetings’ usually took place in the afternoon - so no going missing in the evening, and any longer absences could be explained away with a ‘golf trip’ being the common one, or a quick business trip to Singapore - and the wife would be none the wiser.

Apparently the ‘Boss’ just puts his out of office on about 2 afternoon a week and disappears to have a bit of afternoon fun Then goes home as if nothing has happened.

Apparently this is common, common, common….oh and they ‘all have 2 phones or use secret apps'

So now I am constantly watching for ’signs’

My DH has been great here and has stepped up to help with the DC’ and basically has been attentive and appreciative that I agreed to come here. I have no real reason to think he might be messing about but, I guess that is exactly what these other betrayed women think also.

But DH does work long hours and quite often, I can’t get hold of him in the afternoons…..I had not thought anything of it until I heard about the ‘usual excuses’ from my lunch friends, but now, all I do is look for signs and it’s driving me mad.

I did get the conversation around to what I had heard with my DH and he was flippant - which did shock me.

He also knew about his Manager and the double life he leads….and just said it wasn’t his business….when I asked him a bit more about it he said this guy had been found out once, the wife had swallowed the lies about it being a very short term fling over lockdown, but that he was now back seeing the other woman again regularly; As to be ‘expected’ she is a younger, attractive asian woman who not only is he still paying, but he’s actually bought her a whole house, car and pet in the Philippines - so she has security for life and a place to live when she isnt over here providing him with company.

All said in a dead pan expression - like it was normal …he said he was regularly told to expect this guy to be ‘unavailable’ for 2 afternoons a week - and it was pretty much an open secret. He also told me that the wife had insisted on a ‘post nup’ once she found out but this hasn’t been much of a deterrent and life has gone on as usual.

Im horrified. My DH hasn’t actually said he would never be tempted to do the same, but did say it wasn’t hard to get into that position and he was aware of many others doing the same….the only consolation was when he said ‘ I don’t know where they get the energy from’

This has all been in my head now for about 6 weeks and it isn't shifting. I find myself imagining every kind of betrayal and looking for any signs. I look at his shirts, notice what he has in his pockets when he empties them out, and whilst I haven’t been tempted to check on his phone, I am ashamed to say I probably would do - if he didn’t have eyeball recognition on it. I text him in the afternoons, noticing how long it takes for him to read, and actually feel panicked when only one tick appears - like he’s turned it off. I admit to having gone through his card and bank statements which he makes no effort to hide, but I just cant shake it,

I hate myself for this and I am aware what I am becoming and I have no justification for it other than this horrible fear that my lovely DH is just like the others.

I feel like Im stuck. If I openly tell DH I am concerned, he will predictably tell me not to be so stupid, but if I don’t, then he might feel I am not that bothered - as it seems several of the wives in the circle aren’t either.

Ive lost perspective, feel constantly like I might be being gaslit, and am turning into a suspicious and frightened shadow.

Leaving Hong Kong isn’t an option, due to work, and obviously the benefit of the salary which we wouldn’t have in UK, but, I just seem to be completely stuck with these fears and whilst I can honestly say my DH has done nothing to make me suspicious, I now feel its just a matter of time.

Has anyone any experience of living and thriving in a similar environment? Do I have a clearer conversation with my DH or just stop my worrying?

It just feels like from what I have heard and seen, that western men working here are basically just walking ATM's for some of the women here who are usually much younger, ridiculously pretty, and know very well how to use their charms. Btw, no issue with the women, if this is their way, then fine, I guess its just I hope my DH will not be drawn and Im feeling such a wreck, I feel so vulnerable.

Do you have full access to his finances? Presumably money would be going missing if he was up to something.
And remember that money isn’t everything. If this is going to upset your MH you might want to consider bringing the kids home and getting a job. You shouldn’t be trapped there.

I do sympathise, it a horrible feeling living with doubt.
Unfortunately I can understand your worry and not for nothing have I heard Hong Kong being described as a graveyard for marriages.
I lived out there in the 90’s and I was there for handover in 97 although I was single at the time. I lost count of how many marriages went to the wall and it was always the same thing.
An overpaid ‘lad’ culture was prevalent, regardless of wives and families. Except the men weren’t lads, they were usually middle aged, heavy drinking embarrassments who couldn’t control them selves in ‘the sweety shop’ that was Hong Kong. Beautiful Asian girls everywhere and all out to bag the prize of a western boyfriend and the luxuries that come with that. From what I saw, many or most of the girls were from other Asian countries where poverty and impoverishment was commonplace and it was often the case that any money earned in Hong Kong, in the ‘entertainment industry’ at least part of it was sent back home to support kids and families. The girls were typically no older than 35 and were on quite a strict timeframe to earn as much as possible in a short time.

The men I remember most were the ones who were completely flattered that these pretty, young woman would be interested in him and believed the shtick they were fed. Pathetic really but it was commonplace to see these guys trawling the sports bars and smart hotel bars in the CBD and the ‘red light’ areas, east of the central area, with a pocket of cash and an inability to control themselves.

It was a work hard, play hard culture and you are absolutely correct in thinking that no one is going to tell you if your DH is mucking you about. It’s a nasty club, and because so many of the men are doing it, they certainly will have each others backs.
And now in a time where every adulterous guy has at least 2 mobiles and countless social media apps, it’s even easier and less detectable than ever.

As a previous poster says, if it really is affecting your MH then I would suggest you speak to your DH about this and see what he says. No good accusing him of anything and from what you say, there is no tangible evidence for doing so but I do think you need to confide your worries. Maybe he isn’t happy there either and would consider a return ?

I do feel for you as I have worked abroad in financial services in Asia and Europe now for 30 years and no where, no where at all is as bad as Hong Kong was and likely still is. It’s a den of iniquity and the main feature is misogynistic, entitled and amoral attitudes with a complete disrespect for women, be they working girls, wives or girlfriends.

You may be exceptionally lucky and have one of the good guys but I’m afraid to say that even those, can easily be swayed over to the dark side, once middle age strikes and the flattery of a pretty girl is too hard to resist.

I would say, talk to him, agree a way forward where you would feel safer and see what happens. Make sure you both have together time regularly, with and without your DC and use the opportunity of having a domestic help to make the most of what is a lovely place to live and lots of nearby places to visit.

Good luck and know that you aren’t being over sensitive, just being reasonably sensible.

I have no experience of this but juat wanted to second that money isn't everything. If I felt this way I couldn't stay there and if my husband loved me enough he would agree to leaving too.

You uprooted your life and your children's life, the least you should be able to expect is that your husband appreciates it enough to be loyal to you. I'm tired of this lad culture these days and things being not a big deal, but if a woman did anything like this she would be called all sorts.

Is sex ever really that good that it's worth all this? For these men to live double lives and pay handsomely for it? I dont believe it is personally

NC for this.

OP, as an expat wife who's lived all over the world, including the Far East, I know exactly what you are talking about. The difference with what you have described in HK, is that the women there are 'professional' and so not falling pregnant and insisting on marriage, as happens in other countries where the draw is also the man's passport. Husbands having affairs were so common in one country that my friends and I even discussed if we wanted to be told if our husbands were involved in one. I said yes, she got upset and said no.

In my case, I always made it very clear that infidelity was something I would never tolerate - that I would take him to the cleaners in a divorce and probably chop off his penis. He knew that I wasn't lying.

I've had a friend find out her husband was having an office affair when she got suspicious and checked his wallet for receipts. That marriage ended in divorce.

Another friend didn't join her husband for a year, but when she did, said that it was obvious he had moved someone in while she was away. She pretended she didn't know anything and he stopped seeing the mistress.

I've known a case where the man had families in two different countries and the wife accepted it.

Only you can know if you trust your husband, but in your position, I would have a very serious talk with DH, explaining how much you are disturbed by work colleagues and their "HK wives" and what you would do if he has one. The only saving grace, if you want to call it that, is that the HK wives don't want the husbands too, just their money. In many patriarchial societies in the Far East, it is common for men with money to have a mistress.

💐And a handhold, OP.

Thanks for checking in OP's

I will have a talk to DH again this weekend when we have some together time and listen to what he thinks/feels.

Part of my angst is my own self image and belief is becoming a version of me I don't want to be: suspicious isn't what I am and I need to be in a position where I can shake it.

I accept Hong Kong isn't going to suddenly be a different place. But I am grateful to the perspectives OPs have given, so thanks

I too lived in HongKong as a single. Pre handover.
I feel for you OP, the culture out there is quite appalling when it comes to the way expat wives are treated.
Working for an architectural practice as an architect, so with mainly men, I knew all about their affairs and also had to go for drinks with their wives and kids. I found it repulsive and extremely difficult to deal with the lies.

Men just changed over there. It’s a macho bravado thing…To be honest, sex and the huge availability of lots of petite young things so willing to pander to their every whim and without any baggage was so rife that some men had more than one on the go.

It seems nothings changed.
I do know wives though that put their foot down and laid it on the line and their husbands didn’t stray. Most I think knew but pretended not to. That’s the mistake you need to not make OP

So I lived 15 years in HK, left just 18 months ago. Yes this happens, but no it doesn't happen with everyone.

HK can feel like a permanent holiday, there's sun and sea, there's domestic help so people go out partying way past the 'normal' age in UK, and yes there can be a subculture of SE Asian women hoping to get a rich husband. I also think the handover years were crazy, so you'll get a lot of expats talk about the glory days, I suspect a lot of that is beer googles!

I'd urge you to find friendship groups beyond the ones you currently have which sound bonkers. Personally no more of my friendship circle in HK had affairs than my friendship circle in the UK, which means yes some happened but not to your description.

You need to be very open with your DH, tell him it's a deal breaker and he needs to know that you simply won't live that life. Then focus on yourself, get out and enjoy HK, it's a fantastic place, you can work as a DP, volunteer or get fit on the trails - - and genuinely find new friends!

We're moving this thread to our Relationships topic at the OP's request.