If you feel let down by a parent is there anything they could do to help?

[IhateSPSS]

I would really appreciate your input if you are a child of a parent who let you down or a parent who has let down their child and what you did to make reparation for your relationship? I will understand if people want to berate me for my previous actions, and I have fully accepted that I am not the mother I wanted to be or should have been to my DC and I take full accountability for that and give no excuse. It's on me and I accept that, there is no avoidance in my mind about that and it's the thing I am truly sorry about. I let my vulnerabilities get my child and I into a dangerous situation and dragged two other DC into the situation.

Context: I was in a DV relationship from DS1 being 3 years old until he was 11. I was 24. I married exH (the first massive mistake) and it started out as coercive control and ended up with me having broken bones. ExH never physically abused the children (DS2 and DD are his, another bad decision on my part to have DC with him). He was however coercively controlling of us all and financially abusive to all of us - e.g. he wouldn't let us have heating or hot water, sugar in the house, was mean with food particularly, clothing and generally was tyrannical. It took a lot of planning and me asking outside agencies to help me to be able to leave as it was dangerous but we managed. I was a mess for 2 years but had therapy, re trained and went from a household income of 9k to 90k to try and redefine us (we were from a small community and were the subject of a lot of snideness and snobbery about being poor and a lone parent family and insecurely housed for a while). DS1 was 11, DS2 was 6 and DD was 3 when we got out. They didn't directly witness me being hurt physically but they must have heard it and as I said experienced a difficult life with exH.

DS1 (who is 20) came out with a bit of a shocker conversation on Friday evening. He has been having flashbacks, asked how I cope with the trauma and said I don't know my DC as well as I think I do and that I didn't protect them as DC. That DS2 (now 16) is 'way he is because of you not leaving' (DS2 hasn't got much motivation at school but is a lovely kind boy who I thought was doing okay emotionally) and that I didn't handle leaving the way I should (I got the police to help us leave and left the marital home plunging us into poverty as I was so scared obviously the DC were scared too). He said I was ridiculous to give away the family home in the divorce (I got 30%). DS1 then got out of the car and went back to uni. I immediately scrabbled around to find some support for him emotionally at university and he is going to talk to someone about his MH. I have apologised to him for not protecting him. He has said I need to talk to DS2 and that I 'made' DS2 see his father, a court child arrangement order for DS2 and DD was put in place as ExH took me to court. I am wracked with guilt and want to know how the hell I go about fixing this? I feel desperate if I am honest and I am sat at work like a zombie.

DS1 has started smoking weed and this seems to have opened the floodgates emotionally for him. I admit that I have buried a lot of this - I seem to have blocked out a lot of this time and can't really get a grip on what flashbacks he could be having and he won't tell me. I also feel like I am stood on the edge of an abyss where I am going to drag us all back into hell emotionally and selfishly I don't want to go there but if my DC need this I will. DD doesn't even know any of this as she was so young. She hasn't actually asked either which is concerning and really likes her DF, who she sees regularly and has a new partner. Anyone got any advice? Sorry for War and Peace. I am not sure how I'd condense this.

Anyone? The fact nobody has replied makes me think it's beyond help which is making me even more depressed...

I don't think I have any brilliant advice but also don't want to read and run.

It's a credit to you that you've taken your son's comments seriously and that you're trying to reflect on them. From what you've said it sounds like you did your best to leave an awful situation (and made a success of your life afterwards), AND that the experience was traumatic and difficult for your children (or at least one/two of them). Both things are true. You are all victims of your ExH. It must be a terrible shock to you though to suddenly be struck by the impact it seems to have had on your DS.

I think (although I am no expert) that some good steps forward would be:
Following up to make sure your son gets some MH support while at uni.
Letting your son know you believe him, and that you are open to talking more.
Being very kind to yourself and reminding yourself you.did the best you could (and yes, sometimes our best still isn't enough to totally protect our children from harm, but that doesn't mean you weren't trying or being the best parent you could be).
Getting some more therapy for you while you help your children; you will need to remain resilient for them but this will be hard and you also deserve support.

Sending you love and strength ♥️ I'm so pleased you all got out of there.

Thanks @SirWalterElliot in my panic to focus on DS I didn't think about strengthening my capacity and resilience. That's such a good piece of advice. Thank you. I was feeling very dark and your kind words have helped.

You sound as if you are determined to handle this well and seem a loving Mum.
I read this a few days ago and your post reminded me of these words. Maybe try asking your DS to read them (and to walk away from weed... that won't help his emotions)

"I hope with all my heart that I showed you the real me. That I didn’t pretend I had it all together, or that life was not hard.
I hope I gave you the belief of you, in your core. That I loved you enough, albeit messily, to code a blueprint for life, to show you what love should look like.
And I hope I let you see me break, so you could understand, it is not an ending, rather a step. And it’s vital.
Dear Son, I could not possibly have gotten everything right, and perhaps,
thats the best thing I have given you.
That knowledge, no one gets it right.
We are not here to be perfect.
We are here to love, to grow stronger and more bright with every generation.
Grow brighter my love, brighter than me.
As it very much should be."

By Donna Ashworth (actually to a daughter)

Have to admit I'm finding this very hard to read, OP.

This jumps out as very self-dramatising:

I also feel like I am stood on the edge of an abyss where I am going to drag us all back into hell emotionally and selfishly I don't want to go there but if my DC need this I will.

You don't need to remember the events that your child is having flashbacks about.
You definitely don't need to jump into an abyss. How on earth do you think that would help anyone?

DS1... said I don't know my DC as well as I think I do and that I didn't protect them as DC.

Assume you're not arguing with any of that?

Work on your own boundaries, urgently. Have you done the Freedom program to get some insight into your own behaviour?

To be frank, the damage is done. You can minimise further damage by cutting out the drama queening and working on your own stability.

You don't seem to realise how self-focused your post is, as you claim to be the opposite.

Like you, my mum coped by blocking out traumatic events and moving on. I was simply unable to.

Get some more support for yourself, get therapy for your children, and just keep saying sorry.
take your DS seriously (which you are), read up on PTSD especially complex, and keep in touch with him.

Can I suggest that, given what you have described, you absolutely don't share this with your son, OP?

It's completely inappropriate and minimising of what your children endured.

Hi OP

As your DS1 was 11 when you left he will remember it and it will have had a big impact on him.

You did the right thing in getting out.

He's going to need time and space to process it all.

He may to some extent blame you. In simple logic he will think that as a child he couldn't stop it, but that as an adult you could. It is much much more complicated than that and he will come to realise this but it may take him time.

Listen to him. If you feel you can, try to express some sympathy for what he went through.

You need to talk to your dc about what they need from you to support them going forward. You talked about being accountable but also not wanting to go back there. You can’t change the past, but you can validate their feelings now and you can work to repair what needs repairing going forward.

In my own personal experience of a damaged parent child relationship, the bad thing that happened in the past was like 20% of the pain. The real pain came from having a parent who denied my experience, minimised it, tried to make it all about them, blamed me, refused to deal with anything that was difficult and refused to do the things I needed her to do to move us forward.

So in my case, I asked my mum to go to family therapy so we could talk about what happened in a neutral space with someone to support us to have that conversation. She wouldn’t. She’d feign setting something up. Then she’d make excuses. She’d disappear for 3 months, come back and say sorry she wouldn’t have time for a therapy appointment as she was trying to find a new dentist and it was taking up allll her time. She’d freak out at the thought of having to talk about it with anyone, say horrible things to me, make up lies about me, rinse and repeat. For years. I just wanted her to do like 4 sessions speaking with a therapist so we could find a way forward, and she just wouldn’t, no matter what.

Your dc still sound quite young. Often this stuff comes up when we have children ourselves. So it may be that this is just the start of having these conversations. And no doubt the substance abuse is playing into it as well.

Just take on board what they are saying, listen to them, validate their feelings and experiences, and see it as a wonderful thing that your ds trusted you enough to come to you and talk openly. If you’d done a totally horrible job, that wouldn’t have happened. So have some faith you did something right.

@ILoveMyCatButHesAPervert thanks for your post. If you could explain what you needed from your Mum that would be really helpful.

It's not that simple. What I needed from my mum won't be the same as what your kids need. And to a large extent the damage is done. I've already done my best to help in my previous post.

@mindutopia thank you. That is really helpful. I think family therapy is an option and I'll ask DS1 what he thinks.

All three DC did get support from a domestic abuse service at the time through MARAC and nursery/school and DS1 also got support from a mental health nurse in Year 12. They also had a Cafcass guardian. I also did the freedom project to answer that question.

I’m sorry but if my mum read this to me I’d be extremely pissed off and think she was talking bollocks.

@IhateSPSS

My mum made bad choices and we had a complex relationship. She did loads of brilliant stuff but ultimately she stayed with an emotionally abusive man, kept us in poverty, and didn’t parent us very well and had children she couldn’t afford.

I loved her but I’m angry with her and as she died we never resolved anything.

I would talk to them separately, honestly, openly, and ask them what they remember of that time. What they are still angry about, and go from there.

The reality is that I don’t think I could ever understand her choices but I could forgive her for them. But it needs frank and open conversation.

Not poetry.

OP, firstly, you were brave in getting out and it sounds as if you have come a long way. Your OP is a bit confused I would say - you say that you are taking full responsibility for messing up for your kids and there are no excuses, but you seem a bit defensive that your elder son might still be upset about it. This is understandable, I'm just saying what stands out from your post.

I have a relative who grew up in a similar situation and whose mum took a long time to leave for economic reasons. She hasn't had therapy and she does blame her mum to a degree, even though she understands the times she lived through. It's complicated. She understands her mum was frightened and didn't feel she had anywhere to go, but equally she is disappointed in her that she wasn't braver, is my reading of it, and that she feels her mum turned a blind eye to some of the (verbal) abuse of the kids so as to escape a beating herself.

I think that your desire not to revisit the past is understandable in terms of your story ("I escaped DV with my kids and rebuilt my life"), but it doesn't make sense in terms of your kids' stories ("we witnessed awful things when we lived with our parents and no one protected us from them" - I think it is simplistic to say that your kids didn't see the violence so they didn't witness it). It's natural for them to reexamine what happened as they become adults. I'd imagine that they will reexamine it again if and when they become parents too.

It is important that your kids have counselling. But it is also important that your engage - it's not necessarily about reliving the flashback experience with them, but being willing to discuss with your children how and why for such a long time you lived as you did. How their father got access through the courts, why you only got 30%. Your DS1 is right - you don't fully know what your children went through and it is part of their story.

I'm no expert as to whether family counselling is recommended in this situation, but it might help.

In my own personal experience of a damaged parent child relationship, the bad thing that happened in the past was like 20% of the pain. The real pain came from having a parent who denied my experience, minimised it, tried to make it all about them, blamed me, refused to deal with anything that was difficult and refused to do the things I needed her to do to move us forward.

Really agree with this. My mum is in denial (I can see why, it would take a lot of strength to own how much abuse she enabled) and I’m “oversensitive”. Technically she has said sorry which is something, but she also says she doesn’t know what I’m talking about -this is not about things she might have forgotten or not witnessed, it’s things she was there for. Even if she can’t remember, I’d prefer her to listen, take it on board and acknowledge my feelings.

The other thing is your DC will be angry at you because they see it as your job to keep them safe, and I understand that myself, but I also think all this shit happens in the first place because of the abuser, who gets off the hook. Either because he’s out of the picture, or because everyone knows he’s not going to listen or change. Leaving an abuser is hard and you were all victims. But you did it for yourself and your DC and that’s important. It takes time for everyone to heal and it’s not a smooth process. But your son is turning to you for what he needs and you can help.

I also don’t like the poem (sorry PP) because it’s very “me me me”. I think the best approach is to apologise genuinely, tell your son you are always ready to listen and go over what happened with him and talk about it, you will help in other ways too if you can (like you did with organising therapy/counselling) and always genuinely do believe and listen. As PPs say look after yourself too. And don’t expect a quick fix or a tidy resolution, but having said that I think if your sons get this support and acknowledgment from you things will be OK.

I don’t think you’re being dramatic talking about the abyss - I think you’re just putting into words how you feel, and I know that feeling. But it doesn’t have to swallow you up - you’re in a better place now and you can do right by your DC.

I cut my mother out my life nearly 8 years ago and there is nothing that would make me ever allow her back in.

However you have accepted and owned it which in my opinion means it’s fixable. I think maybe writing them a full letter explaining everything and letting them read it in their own time would be really useful. Then you could sit down individually and let them ask questions and just be honest. Encourage them to get help, counselling whatever it takes.

Once everything was on the table I think you could all find a way to move forward. Childhood trauma is an awful thing and it’s affected my entire life, it’s allowed me to be a fantastic parent because I made sure to parent the way I needed someone to parent me. However it’s meant I’ve been a total walkover and people pleaser and meant I doubt my own judgement and mind. So facing it all now and getting them help is so important.

you can’t change the past and I’m sure no one can make you feel worse than you already do. But be honest with the kids, try hard and no one can knock you for that, if you didn’t care you wouldn’t be worried about this or trying so I’m sure everything will work out in the end.

Good luck to you 😊

Both my parents let me down. My mum was very abusive and my dad said all the right things but couldn't be arsed to leave and protect me from the abuse.
You've done a lot right. Things would have been far better for me if my dad had left when I was 11. I don't even bother to speak to my parents about what I went through as no point. Whereas your son has found you listen and are willing to help.

Hi OP, replying out of fellow feeling rather than as someone with the answers. I left abusive exH when DD was 18 months old, but she had a lot of contact with him under a court order until she was 13. It was pretty awful and she does feel let down by me, as I allowed this contact. We did go back and forth to court and contact was reduced but I didn't push for no contact at all, and in retrospect I probably should have. (Of course I can defend myself - I wouldn't necessarily have got it, and it might have been counterproductive, as the court might have perceived me as the unreasonable person. We can't know).

DD is 16 now. I've said sorry. I've listened and have done my best to make it about her feelings, not mine. I arranged some counselling, although it stopped sooner than was helpful (counsellor left her job). I'm intending to arrange some more, although I decided to wait till she's completed her GCSEs in a few months. We have a great relationship (I believe!). I will be interested in what other posters have to say from the perspective of the child in the situation. Here to listen and learn.

I would suggest that you need a trained counsellor to help you and your son work through this, probably in addition to individual trauma counselling. It's going to be very difficult for you both, but you need to ensure you're willing to listen to the effect that your decisions had on your child. You probably need to explore the same with the other two children as well.

Let's not forget that the man was the violent abuser here with the OP subject to coercive control and physical violence. Sounds like you did well in a horrific situation in which you were a victim, OP.

I understand lots of what OP wrote here.
The abyss (spelling?) ...yep I've felt I'm falling back in there many times.

I also left a coercive controller he was a bully I left quite a few times but kept going back because he had brainwashed me.

I was a wreck
I was unavailable for my child for a period of time while I recovered but none of that was my fault or planned, the rest helped me come back stronger.
I rebuilt things gradually and I talk to my DS about feelings.
We've both had lots of counselling and know that it wasn't our fault ,I did the best I could at the time to manage a very very dicey situation.
I also left with no savings, and no job either!
It is incredibly tough so don't allow anyone to judge you.

Be proud of keeping you and your 3 children alive.

You are not being dramatic at all.
Until people have walked in our shoes they probably can't ever understand why we made certain decisions.

Definitely wasn't making sense in my OP.

The points I wasn't clear on: I got 30% of the house equity, not custody. Ex had a very good family solicitor. I got what I was given on legal aid. Ex got EoW and one night a week. I could have taken the DC and run but I didn't. Not sure why now. I should have done that. DS1 hasn't had any contact with Ex since we left. He isn't Ex's biological son. DS2 and DD had no choice, they had to go due to child arrangements order. DS2 doesn't like going. Ex is still controlling, even this morning we have had an issue with that. I have had school and Early Help involved but Ex threatens parental alienation.

The abyss comment was me being dramatic and stupid. I wrote it garbled, I meant I am scared of opening up a pandora's box for DS2 and DD. They will be hurt by this in various ways and the thought of upsetting them is worrying me. DS1 and I are very open - I have apologised for not protecting him and he has every right to resent me and I have told him that. I can't minimise what he went through as a child as it was awful for me as a sentient adult, he was a scared little boy, I was trying to understand if Ex had been physical with him when i asked about flashbacks.

I recall going through an embittered phase of how my parents were not very helpful or encouraging growing up around the time I was at uni. There's something about being around a lot of seemingly successful uni peers that makes you think you made it there inspite of your parents and that it's so much easier for everyone else. But, this is a wrong assumption at the time, as you dont see your peers with their parents, and everyone is busy being independent of them so theres little chat about them.

However, as you get older, you realise that you've come across others In life who really do have worse messed up childhoods and long-standing issues because of it. When he gets older, hopefully he will become less bitter about the length of time it took you to get away, and recognise that you did eventually, and its no mean feat with 3 DC's. That you went on to make a success out of life, you did well on your own.
You can help by acknowledging, in hindsight, that it would of been better to get out sooner and apologisefor that. It looks like someone has unnecessarily shared the financial details of the split with him at the time, which is odd - was that you? Were you bitter about the small amount you got, so mistakenly overshared that? He's taken that info and directly related it to why you were then flung into poverty. But it was you that dug you out of that situation, and that takes guts, and he will come to see that one day.
As far as DS2 goes, DS1 is making an assumption based on half info. Let him know that you had no choice in visits as it was cour ordered.
Your DS1 is perhaps clumsily saying that your DS 2 remembers more than you realise and they have probably talked about it between them. DS2 is probably afraid to bring it up with you, so bring it up with him, ask him what he remembers of it, and ask him his thoughts around the visits - he's old enough that he doesn't have to see his Dad anymore if he doesn't want to.
You would do better by them all by talking about it rather than bottling it up.

Your DS2 shouldn't now be forced to see ex. He should be given a view now he is 16. No court will enforce contact and, whilst it might make life difficult for you, you should back him

In addition to what has been said I think alarm bells should be ringing about your son saying you need to speak to DS2 and that you don't know them as well as you think you do. Sounds like DS2 has done/told him something that he is very concerned about.