Suck it up - or not?

[Brotherlyunlove]

After an argument with DP this evening, I’d really appreciate the views of others.

Over the last 15 years, virtually every occasion that I’ve met DP’s younger brother there has been some remark (or more frequently, multiple remarks) made by him that has offended me and I have got to the stage where I have no desire to spend any time in his company because I feel like I’m constantly being goaded, my character assassinated, or I’m the butt of jokes.

DP is aware of this and has spoken to his brother on at least 2 occasions after I complained to him about how I felt, but it seems to have had little effect. DP is also of the belief that his brother displays some autistic traits and his interactions with me are his way of “bantering” with no intent to offend. Whether or not that is an accurate assessment, I dislike the encounters, get stressed by the prospect of them, and am constantly on my guard about not telling him to fuck off as I would with anyone else who behaved in this way with me. Indeed, if it were anyone else, I simply would have avoided any further contact after an unacceptable line had been crossed.

However, since he’s “family” I have been more circumspect for DP’s sake, make meals when he visits and am polite as I would be for any other visiting acquaintance - but, for those that know me well, I’m very offhand and grey rock in any conversation. This may make him worse, I don’t know.

We live some distance apart so visits are only a few times a year at most but his brother has been pushing an invite to DP to visit his house for the last year. Because of the distance, it has to be an overnight trip as a minimum. I simply don’t want to go and have told DP this but he believes I should “suck it up because that’s what families do” - but I have no family I’m asking him to do this with and my friends are not rude to DP when they visit. I’ve told DP to go on his own but he thinks that would be rude and he also says he thinks I would be annoyed if he did this (I wouldn’t if it meant I didn’t have to go too). Staying elsewhere is also not an option. So we argued.

If relevant, we are all in our late forties.

Am I being unfair to DP by refusing to go? I can just about tolerate it if his brother comes to our house as there is always something else I can be doing to minimise the amount of time I spend with him although, I admit, there is always a “must we?” conversation when I’m told he is planning to visit us. If you have been in this situation, how have you managed it?

I would refuse to go. You don’t have to ‘suck it up’ at all. One of DH’s relatives is an objectionable cunt and I refuse to see her any more, despite Mil putting pressure on me because it’s ‘family’.

I’m always conflicted about these situations, as I’ve known people who have an irritating abrasive personality, but would go out of their way to be helpful when asked. I also know that I used to be a bit difficult in social situations, because the household norms I grew up with were not particularly kind and poking fun was the norm. I trod on a few toes back then, but genuinely had no idea at the time.

So I don’t know what my advice would be. Maybe with all the division and conflicts going on in the world i would be hesitant to create more division within my own family. I’d probably just put the kettle on and think happy thoughts.

How far would BIL have to go before DP acknowledged that making you visit was unreasonable? I mean someone once accidentally making a remark and apologising you move on. But every time to see him and multiple times on each occasions? Why should you put up with that?

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the OP creates conflict. Just that she doesn’t have to see someone who regularly insults her. The DP seems to be creating conflict by making her spend time with the rude BIL.

I wouldn’t go. No way do I have to ‘suck it up’! I would talk to DP and be clear that I am not going as I don’t like him, he doesn’t like me, and that’s fine! If you don’t want to do that though, then I absolutely would tell the twat to F Off if I felt I needed to. But honestly, why go in the first place.. your DP seems very unreasonable on this.

To add, because I posted before I saw your latest post about the relationship between you and DH as a result of you refusing to go.

Initially, my refusal to see the cunt did cause some friction between me and DH. Like yours, he was of the opinion that you suck it up because family. After agreeing once to visit her and being subjected to some awful behaviour, I flatly refused to go again and was very clear with DH and Mil that they were welcome to visit her but I would not be going and I wasn’t prepared to put up with being treated badly by her. I wasn’t aggressive about it, but I was firm and explained calmly why I was drawing a line.

Your DH can't make you go. His feelings do not take precedence over yours.

How come your boyfriend is not equally as worried about friction he's allowing his shitty brother to cause you?
If you're legally single, the man's relatives are nothing to do with you and not at all 'family' if he's trying to play that card. Never accept shit male behaviour, your boyfriend should be your biggest advocate.

Oh no, don’t go OP. I put up with rude SIL and her family for many years because DH and I loved my PILs. Since PILs died I’ve never seen the in-laws who dislike me. It’s such a huge improvement in my life.

DH sees them as little as possible. If asked, he’ll say “Ofcourse is busy” and just shrug it off.

Really, just stay away from people who are rude to you. You’re not the human punchbag.

I’ll do a lot for relatives/ in-laws who need help. But I don’t include putting up with rudeness or hostility. That’s totally unnecessary. I really would make that clear to DP. He should not tolerate hostility to you, nor expect you to tolerate it.

Thanks for the different perspectives.

Part of the issue is that the comments, on the face of it, are not individually much to write home about but they have become like a dripping tap and I’m sensitive to them as a whole, just waiting for the next one to drop. Often DP may not even be in the room when they are made or is part of a different conversation. This goes some way to explaining why DP is not leaping to defend me but the major part is that he’s not particularly aware of it because a) he’s used to his annoying little brother so it goes over his head and b) some comments you might tease your partner or a close friend about but someone else making them crosses a boundary and it’s not always possible to gauge that line for others.

We have once had words at a family event at our house when he wouldn’t let a point he wanted to make drop and since then I’ve been far less welcoming to him. I have no desire to alienate DP from his family or to create a situation where his family feel unwelcome to visit our home because of the relationship I have with his brother but I accept that I have to be clear to DP that I won’t travel to his brother’s home.

Why do I cook? I have no issues about cooking for DP’s family as DP can’t cook, and to go out would be more expensive. It also gives me an avoidance opportunity if his brother is here. When his brother is here on his own though, it’s usually a pizza from the supermarket!

Your dp should be protecting you and looking after you..not wanting people to treat you like shit
By his own fat gob, he admits that bil is rude. Why would he want you to be treated like this.
Tell him that HE should be the one that sucks it up..He obviously wants life to be a bit easier for himself by having you go with him.
Twat

I suppose the only way to know what sort of conflict will arise between you, is if you don't go, and see how it pans out.
If you are worried that the conflict over this will damage your relationship, I think he might see that you're serious about it, and accept it.
Are you worried it's going to upset him too much and he will hold it against you?

Lizzbear: I can see that he feels torn, and I can understand that I might feel the same way in the similar circumstances. I do worry that he thinks I’m asking him to choose or to make a stand when he has spoken to his brother asking him to dial things back. I don’t want him to alienate his brother, I just don’t want to have to go to his house.

And DP is not a twat!

So when his DB says stuff you don't like, do you give it back to him or at leat point out that he's not being nice, or being rude? I think you should start pointing out every irksome comment he makes, only way he has a chance of understanding why people don't like him. See it as doing him a favour. Then don't take it personally, he's the one with the problem.

My vote is for: do not suck it up.

Opentoffers: No, I don’t use my words - but I do have a rather expressive face and ignore the barbs. If he is actively looking for a rise instead of being unintentionally rude, he doesn’t get it from me.

I know that I can say some extremely unpleasant things when riled but I also show restraint when necessary - and, in spite of the fact I would not choose to have anything to do with a person like DP’s brother in any other capacity, he is DP’s brother and I feel a bit of diplomacy is required; I’d prefer to deliver that by physical avoidance.

Does your BIL actually want to see you? Or is it your DP pushing for this?

I have a contrary view to your DH which is that if you can't tell your family they've upset you/they're being a dickhead, who can you tell?

Doesn't matter whether the beother is autistics or not, anyone can be told they've upset someone and invited to adjust their behaviour/comments in future. I might give DH the option - either he does it privately or if not, you don't publicly, which may offend.

Does DH see why you were upset by the comments?

The question you asked is how you manage this with your DP.

I'd be clear that this is about boundaries and DP is pushing you to lower them which is unacceptable.
Being kind to someone who is not kind to you is erosion of your boundaries.

If DP respects you he will respect your boundaries.

He goes on his own.

Karmakameleon: We have been asked as a couple and DP thinks we should go as a couple. I have no idea whether his brother actively wants to see me or if it is a social expectation to ask both members of a couple to visit. He and DP regularly meet for their hobbies and DP has stayed at his home several times since I last visited because of hobby related activities that were nearer there.

DP’s belief is that because he has now spoken to his brother on more than one occasion that I should give him the benefit of the doubt and try again. I think the boat has sailed and I will never be comfortable in his brother’s company irrespective of whether he actually says something that offends me - because I will always be expecting that he will.

DP and I have been through most of the scenarios and approaches that people on this post have suggested. The comment about agreeing to disagree is probably the only thing left now and I feel sad that his brother has come between us like this.

Does your DP have form for ignoring your boundaries in other scenarios and pushes you to do things you would prefer not to do or is this the only exception to an otherwise equal partnership?

Also does your DP have form for giving his family members a much wider latitude on their behaviour ‘because family’?

You should really consider this
stuff carefully before answering.

Also is it possible something the brother does is personally triggering for you but perhaps isn’t obvious to anyone else? A particular insecurity he hones in on, reminds you of someone from your past? That doesn’t mean you should see him btw, but sometimes it’s helpful for ourselves to understand our reactions to others.

FWIW, if it was me I’d likely not go and point out to DP that it really doesn’t affect HIS sibling relationship if you’re not there.

Your DP doesn’t need to ‘agree or disagree’ with your decision. You’re an adult with agency and he has to accept it. If he can’t do that with any sort of grace then really, he should be asking himself why.

The only issue DH and I have ever had was regarding the behaviour of his sister and I refused to see her for 5 years. Lockdown was in the middle of this, he was always very welcome to see her but I banned her from the house. Never an apology but though it took time and histrionics at one point from MIL. Both MIL and DH agreed she had been horrible to me and was generally an awful person. I have been the better person and see her now and she behaves. If I had not made a stand she would have carried on as she was. Both DH and MIL are scared of her.

It is very difficult to fully realise and admit that your own flesh and blood are completely vile.

The conflict in your relationship is down to your DH not accepting your no.

That's not something you can resolve. Book a spa weekend and tell him you're busy. Repeat. They'll work it out.

It is very difficult to fully realise and admit that your own flesh and blood are completely vile.

This is very true. I don’t think DH much likes his sister either sometimes but only he can criticise her. If I say anything he would always stick up for her.

Tbh DH and I used to argue about this until she said something that was racist and not even aimed at me. So she was allowed to criticise my interests, my values, call me superficial and generally deride my personality and DH would want me to visit. But when I pointed out that something she said was racist and I didn’t much like to hang out with racists I was off the hook and it was never mentioned again.