If you married a good guy but quite passive in terms of dealing problems, please come in and tell me how to make it work

[thebiggestrantingcompetition]

I do like to draw a line first:
I'm not going to divorce him (hopefully don't have to in future!)
I'm not going for counselling - because my fear is that it could end everything, then it's against my first point above.
The stake is too high for everyone involved, so I'm not seeking for separation unless one day there's nothing else can be done to make it work.
I'm not happy, but not overly depressed about the whole marriage. But resentments do build up and I still think there's hope to keep it going, even though I'm just reaching 60%-70% of my happiness meter.

So please, if you want to post anything, make sure it's not about to separate. I need advice on how to work on each problem.

First, the usual - chores.

Before I quit my job to look after our young child, he was doing dishwashers and cooked some evenings. But it has been a few years, since I'm not working and he's working full time, it's all my work. Everything, two children, him and myself to take care of. He does do school runs in the mornings and pass the shop for groceries when needed. But that's it. I now try hard to be fair to him to think if there's anything else he's involved. No.

His role is at "director" level (typical, right?). So his perspective is that his work is very mentally demanding and he's tired by end of the day. I confess, I haven't complained too much, just because of the same reason. If I "ask" him to do something, he would, but just never volunteered to do so. Day in and day out, chasing the piles of laundry - washing, drying, shifting the old load to make space for the new load, folding, putting away into each person's room. It's never ending and nobody in the house lifting a finger to help. If the clothes pile in one corner of the lounge, nobody would think "oh, maybe I can offer some help". Instead, each pops up questions like "I run out of underpant/socks/hoodie/gym clothes". The children are still young, excusable. But as an adult, he never had a second thought that he shall feel ashamed. (Obviously not, right?)

Piled on with all the tedious everyday chores (I hate them all) and other house related maintenance tasks (big ones), it always ended up to be me who have to call tradesmen to come in to fix anything. Because, of courses, he's too busy! Over years, you talk to him about any problem, he'd comment on it and then as if that's all what's needed for him to do.

Do men really think women like to do chores and are all capable to just shoulder everything all by themselves? It's typical, right? But it generates so much resentments, for years and years onwards.

I want to be fair, taking into account his perspective about work. But certainly, there must be a balance somehow. If you don't work full time, can you share some tips how to balance this typical household quarrel point? What do you expect your husband to take on? Or any advice to give to reduce my resentment?

Secondly, mental health and general heath.

Because I'm reaching the age of perimenopause, a lot of health issue flared up in the past year. Being at home not working doesn't help either, physically or mentally. I started looking for job, but it looks going to take much longer than I thought. I went to the leisure centre today to sign up for membership so to force myself being active and improve fitness.

The thing is, I was so distressed with all sort of health issues since last year. I felt so miserable and I completely lose control and cried quite a few times in front of him. But for him, again, passively he'd comfort me a bit at that moment and maybe ask how I felt the second day. But that's it, as if all the distress that made me miserable just disappeared once I calmed down. He would not remember ask me again or do anything extra until my next outburst.

Is this really normal for guys? Compounded with the resentments built up about the chores, I just doubt what my true value is to be in front of him. Housekeeper at best!

Lastly, which is probably the source of lots of other problems: He doesn't crave intimacy and we haven't had sex for years. This includes body contact. Unless I put myself forward, there's no body contact at all. This would have killed the marriage given any other ordinary female years ago. I carried on, because he's a good man and I do care about what we have together.

Given my age, I probably can settle on the idea that there's no more (life is short, I know. But my compass for a well balanced life is more than sex.)

But without even the basic physical connect, overtime, I lose my self-esteem. I don't see myself as a woman anymore. In some way, I started thinking it made me behave in an awkward way to dissuade any intimacy - the shame, the embarrassment and the resentment.

A rare few times, when we went out alone without the children, I felt really uncomfortable and awkward. I don't know if between other couples it's the same, but between us the topics are mainly about the kids, about the household stuff, about other people, about news. Do long married couple talk about yourselves much at all? What do you talk about?

I feel this part of all the problems is the one with a dead end. Maybe only a third party like a counsellor getting involved to give advice can make a difference, as it's such a difficult topic. I doubt he will ever do better, as it's not in his nature (he grew up without any closeness to anyone including his family).

Gosh, such a long rant! Sorry!

If you have any good suggestion for me to self reflect or for us as a couple to work out a solution, I'd really be grateful.

Again, I don't want to divorce him. I do care about him and there's way too much at stake too. Separation doesn't necessarily bring happiness after. He's really a good man in nature, but just can't see/feel from my perspective, no matter how hard I tried to communicate...

This is a very common scenario which I’ve faced and heard others in my circle complain about. It’s not just you, if that means anything. Here are my suggestions

Get a cleaner, gardener or whatever help you think would be most useful, once per week. Looks like he’s agreed that you need help but is just not good at doing it himself, so he might as well put that director salary to use. Let’s see if hitting his pocket will get him contributing more :-)

Join classes in your area, anything to get you out of the house and be active dance, gym, hiking. Make some friends there to help stay motivated

Any hobbies? I do crafts so joined some meet-up groups and get both a creative outlet from it and meet new people

If you can, consider working. If difficult to get back into it, maybe volunteer first. Being a school governor or joining a local charity will help get you back in the game .

Lastly, you want to feel desired and attractive. You can spend money on some skincare, get nails done or your hair. You can also get a nice piece of clothing like good fitting pair of jeans.

Remember that the behaviour from men persists because we do nothing about it, particularly because we see action in terms of divorce or cry but bear it. Think middle ground, don’t do all the things you do, leave half of the work he should do undone while you go do your thing. If he complains, don’t nag, big smile on and say you need to take care of yourself and mental health so that the family stays together. I told mine this and gave him options to get chores done himself or fund the cleaner. Actually he appreciated the option and happier funding the cleaner 😃 perspectives.

And yes I know this costs money and may not work for everyone. Tailored my response to op and her director dh 😅

In terms of chores, he doesn't 'see' things piling up and you shouldn't have to give him a to-do list, but have you tried allocating responsibilities / clearly setting some boundaries?

Examples from my house of split responsibility - I'll do washing and drying but won't pick up off the floor (dirty clothes need to be in the basket and separated by colour, pockets already emptied etc), and I won't put away for him.

We take turns doing drop offs/pickups and doing the weekly shop, but I'm in charge of meal planning and shopping list. We split cooking, first person home is in charge of dinner.

One does bedtime, the other tidies round the house a bit and does the dishes in that same time, so we can both have equal downtime of an evening.

DH is responsible for hoovering, and certain mental load tasks such as arranging and paying the dog walker every week (it's based on his schedule) and milk deliveries.

Outsource as much as you can, or the bits you don't like such as cleaning/ironing etc.

Are you doing much for yourself, clubs, hobbies etc? Are the dc in full time school? To be honest I'd struggle to ask DH to do much if I was home full time with school age children...although I'm not saying it's easy, it'd be my idea of hell.
Maybe start woth a few things just for yourself, see of you can find some joy in places other than your marriage, nurture your friendships etc

Seven principles of making marriage work by John Gottman.

Then Why Marriages succeed or fail and how to make yours last’ by John Gottman.

Then Eight Dates by John Gottman.

Do the quizzes. Maybe Find a Gottman counsellor. They aim to get you back to a good marriage.

Best relationship books by a mile. Based on research. What makes a good marriage and what to do to make it better is explained. Quizzes etc. I don’t have shares in them 😂 i do read them annually. Funnily a good marriage isn’t always a calm communicative one - as you will read in book 2 above.

I hope your husband chooses to engage.

I think you have left things far too long.

His work finishes and he comes home. Your work never finishes because it is the home and children.

He doesn’t understand that being the sole earner isn’t the same as being a GOOD husband and father.

He should be contributing to the running of the home in some way - by taking the bins out on collection day, bringing them in. Putting the internal rubbish in the bin outside. Washing cars/cutting grass. Loading the dishwasher.

doing the children’s bedtimes 3 x a week - giving you a lie in on a Saturday or Sunday so you both get a turn each week.

I would be interested to know who decided to stop having relations/showing intimacy

Im concerned you seem to think your marriage is safe. I’d say your marriage is in danger of failing.

Despite the fact that your husband is enough for you he is actually ripe for the taking if he is not getting any intimacy at home. You have said he is not really that involved with you all. This would make it easier for him to make the cut.

The reason for the lack of sex is important and may be key as to whether you have a future?

I would advise you to make more of a life for yourself, rebuild your career and don’t take your marriage for granted.

Thanks to all. All food for thought..

Yes, the housework bit is nothing new and fairly common. My being not working doesn't help. It makes difficult to ask for his involvement. He's working from home most of the time. Unlike before Covid with long commute every day. But as one of you said, it's a 24hr/day job for me. I wouldn't sit down watching a show in the day even when I have free time when the kids are in school. Just chores kept me busy (and unhappy). In the evening, by the time I put both kids to bed and sort out the dishwasher, kitchen and laundry, there's barely any time left. In the contrast, he has a job 9-6 well defined, well used and well recognised by everyone that "he's working", so when evening comes, he's entitled to just stay chilled and do whatever without guilt.

I didn't intend to be at home for so long. But after a few years, confidence becomes low and the thought of having to juggle between work and family is just daunting. But, yes, that would help shift my focus and improve my self worth...

About the intimacy, unfortunately, he's just not into sex at all. I think there's the issue of
ED and it put him off and he doesn't want to address it (just my guess, as he never wanted to open up and talk about it).

But yes, the mismatch on this really shaped the relationship in a negative way.

"Left it for too long"? I can't tell you how many times over the years I raised these issues in seriousness. I never threatened, but I did make it clear that it will fall apart if nothing changes. Yet, nothing has sunk into his heart. They stay in his mind for a week or so and then just magically evaporated as if never existed. (It's typical for male, right? But I don't get it. They are supposed be logical animals!)

I asked him this morning, if he honestly thinks he's done his best in this marriage. I said I did and honestly I did. I don't know his answer yet. But I'm tired of hoping he'd ever take it seriously enough, instead treating them as periodical hormone induced episodes and thinking they'd pass.

I will start focusing on myself and if money needs to be spent and then be it. I need to feel better and healthier, not miserably waiting for the husband's awakening and taking notice of me!

I would suggest getting a job and putting a part of it (and part of your husband’s income) towards domestic help. I am a senior director and I don’t have kids so there is a lot less household chores but I still manage to clean, do my own laundry, cook meals and organise my own home/admin with zero help. It can be done but I wouldn’t expect that to be the case if I had a partner that I was supporting financially. I think you need to get your own income and put equal parts towards childcare and domestic help.

Regarding the chores…. I have to be honest and say that if you are not working and he is working full time, then surely part of the reason for that is that you are around to do the majority housework and admin like getting tradesmen in.
On the other hand I might be a bit clouded there by being a single mum of 3 working full time.
but when my kids were little I was sahm until each one was about 14 months and my then H was working long hours out of the home. I did have time for all that stuff. Plus I would’ve loved if he ever did a morning school run!

i went back to work partly because I didn’t love all the chores and house admin. I’d rather earn money and delegate what I can.

It's typical human psychology, isn't it.

But the problem is the recognition of input. Earning bread and supporting the family always look grander and more heroic than washing everyone's clothes, feeding everyone and cleaning the house. At the end of the day, the one who's working full time is entitled to "proper" rest, whilst the one who's not has to put their mind in keeping the house running every single waking moment, plus the guilt of relying on the money provided by the their spouse (who's being taken care of by the wife from dirty sock to food in plate).

If some husband does realise it's not an easy job and it sucks life out of a person to serve others at this scale, the wife might not feel resentful after all.

If your DCs are home with you during the day (which I understand to be the case), then your job is to look after them, not do household chores. As for him being tired after work - tough: working parents are still parents. Both DH and I have worked throughout parenthood - in the earlier years, we were in the office during the day (pre-COVID) and when we got home we parented. Yes, it was tiring. But that’s the reality of being a working parent. And the truth is that when our DCs were really little, going into the office during the week was less demanding in many ways than being with them. We loved being with them but in the office we got to sit down, drink tea and coffee hot, finish a sentence in an adult conversation…

I remember a male colleague of mine with an SAHW and tiny DCs mentioning to a secretary that he was playing golf at the weekend so he got a break. The secretary (good for her) asked “when does Mummy get a break?” He had no answer. It hadn’t crossed his mind. So your DH is wrong in thinking he needn’t parent and share the domestic load.

Try and get back into paid employment at least part-time, if you want to and can. It will give you some financial independence and boost your confidence.

The lack of intimacy is a problem but if he won’t address it, you can only work on things that boost your confidence in yourself.

"I'm not going to divorce him. I'm not going for counselling - because my fear is that it could end everything, then it's against my first point above.
The stake is too high for everyone involved, so I'm not seeking for separation unless one day there's nothing else can be done to make it work.
I'm not happy, but not overly depressed about the whole marriage."

"Again, I don't want to divorce him. I do care about him and there's way too much at stake too. Separation doesn't necessarily bring happiness after."

Can I ask what is actually "at stake" here? Because you are clearly extremely unhappy, unfulfilled and resentful and I can't see why you keep saying separating isn't an option? Every divorce / separation is tough but it happens every single day, all over the world, with people who will probably be in far more difficult situations than most of us.

Other people might and will say differently but I genuinely can't see why any person would want to stay in a relationship which isn't working for the rest of their life? You get one chance at life. That's it. You don't want counselling (in case it forces a separation!), you're both unhappy, you feel uncomfortable when you go out together, you're never intimate, he doesn't want to talk about any of it. Are you happy to never have sex again? You say you've accepted that could be it at your age?! What?!?! I'm assuming you're late 40s/early 50s max!!!

I think you're doing what a lot of people do (and is understandable) but if you want genuine advice from people on here (which I'm assuming you do as you posted) then I would say you need to ask yourself whether you are willing to live like this for the next 30-40 years because if he doesn't want to talk and you aren't going to get any help, nothing is going to change, it will only get worse.

If you accepted the stay at home set up then this is often the dynamic I'm afraid. I would have thought with the kids school you would be able to do most chores etc during school hours? Households with two working parents have to do all the things you mentioned and work on top. Obviously in that scenario they would I hope be split between the two parents.

I would strongly suggest building into your week some times and hobbies just for you. Also down tools in the evenings, cook during the day so you're just reheating, if the kids are school age they are old enough to help with the dishwasher and you can do it all as a. Laundry can wait until the next day.

During holidays and weekends, however, I would definitely expect your partner to pull his weight.

Have you been away for a weekend and left DH to it?

I would assume what is at stake here is losing her house, putting her in a vulnerable financial situation, and seeing her children less.

If i didnt work then unless i had a hoarde of kids i would think it was perfectly legit for me to look after the home. If i didnt want to look after the home i'd discuss it with him, get a job and we would both pay towards chefs, cleaners, gardeners etc. If the roles were reversed and i was working at director level i can imagine id be very fucked off if my part time partner expected me to do things at home, id be paying for the services and thinking 'cocklodger' about the dude working part time not lifting much of a finger in the house and living off my quid for no apparent reason. I divorced my ex for that at far less than director level 🤣

Show him this thread (you write beautifully, BTW). If nothing changes then you have your answer and you can plan accordingly.

Magically evaporated from his mind? No. He's holding down a director level job. He absolutely hasn't forgotten. He just chooses not to prioritise it. Have a think about that.

I carried on, because he's a good man

He’s not.

He’s not a good husband, friend or parent.

Your relationship is not based on equality, mutuality or reciprocity.

Three things:

Make a plan to do these things in sequence:

1. Prioritise and invest in your health and emotional well-being.
2. Run the house differently. Lower standards, get a cleaner, don’t cook, shop, tidy, launder, manage any of his things. Get signed up to get out in the evening (even if it’s to sit in your car reading a book) - hand over the reins at 6pm half of the week and same weekends.
3. Get to couples counselling - he is emotionally avoidant and is paying lip service. If his family were cold he needs to learn new skills. Do not he scared of this experience. You will also learn about your self - why are prepared to sacrifice your whole self - your basic human emotional and sexual needs for intimacy and connection - why suffer - for who? Your DC will not benefit from a distant father and a dispirited mother.

@Garlicnaan , good advice about cooking in the day too. Some can be done as reheating makes no difference.

No, never been away for more than a few hours. But might travel to see my parent alone for a few days later this year.

But I'm sure , by the time when I come back, the house might just become a heap of mess waiting for me to picking up. Setting goals would help.

@Chomping , counselling is a really scary idea. There's 50% chance we end up with separation when every wounds get exposed and looked into. At his age, not sure how much he can change. Personality wise, he's just really really reserved. And I used to be a very cheerful and lively person...no longer the case, as overtime he found it too intimidating. So, I've been avoiding to have to diving too deep to make the whole relationship looking like with a shaky foundation.

Once reaching that step, there's no coming back.

I may be wrong but a lot of this seems your own doing. You say you can't take a break during the day while the kids are at school. Why not? Who says you can't? You can watch TV, go out for lunch, read a book, go to a fitness class. Do you do these things? Does DH object if you do? Have you tried?

You say your kids are in school so what do you do for all those hours every day? I understand there is housework but surely not 6 hours plus per day of housework?

I'm trying to understand if the expectation for you to do nothing but housework all day comes from DH or you. You say you lack confidence to get a job which makes me think you feel you need to feel worthy in other ways by working so hard at home. It's OK to take time for yourself and your relationship will almost certainly improve if you do.

@TwistedAdmin , it may not be your experience, as all people involved are different. But see my earlier post about "recognition". And I don't think I'm wrong it's a common issue for couples being married for years. Housework sucks life out of a person. They are tedious, soul numbing and never ending.

Btw, I don't really feel guilty financially (that's probably part of the reason why I didn't push myself hard enough to go back to work). My parents had given me a great part of my inheritance before my younger one was born. So, no, I don't own him financially. But, yes, the money is all in one pot now. And we've been paying massively into his pension, but not much in mine, because my tax rate is much lower.

The intimacy problem can’t be addressed if he isn’t bothered. If you want to stay with him, you will probably have to just accept that.

The first step is getting a job. He may see you in a different light then.

@Givemepickles , I think what you said is very fair.

Up to last September, DC2 was in nursery, but only the 15 hours. Then I was also massively involved in DC1's 11+ preparation. Nearly all my time was divided between housework and all things related to kids.

Freed up since last exam finished in late Autumn. Admiteddly, I should have planned better and actively do something for myself with a routine. But I used to work full-time all my life before DC2 was born and never had the habit to structure something for myself only. Plus the spirit just wasn't high after being in my state for so long. Health issue as well. All hit the bottom of near depression towards Christmas.

All excuses! Like someone suggested, I stop feeling guilt about spending money before I find a job. Went to a lovely leisure centre yesterday and signed up for membership. Will start induction class this Friday. Absolutely out of my comfort zone!

This thread is really helpful, with all the fair comments and suggestions, I agree the first step is take care of myself - stop waiting it to happen on me or being noticed by others. Thinking less and act more as long as it's reasonable!

(Had huge fright about some health issue last year. Went through a few scans. Luckily it turned out to be not too bad, but had to have IUD implanted. Through a few months, I complained and cried with fear. He was made aware all along. But last night, I frankly asked him if he knew what's wrong with my womb and what they planted to my body. He looked funny and admitted that he knew nothing. This is the man that I'm supposed to be closest in the world as a living being. Sigh...

Typical, right? Over years, you became his children's mother, his housekeeper and roommate. That's pretty much the identities of mine. )

Will step out of the house and look for more. I'm more than "them".

The first step is getting a job. He may see you in a different light then.

I'm not hopeful, as I've been there.

The big picture is there, I can only do what I can. The rest, only time can tell.

I didn’t realise your DCs are at school. In that case, I would certainly expect you to carry the domestic burden but I struggle to believe that leaves you with no spare time. My friends who were SAHMs with children at school had quite a lot of free time during the day even with the domestic burden which they expected to carry and did carry. And yes, housework may be dull but most people’s jobs involve dull tasks as well as interesting ones.

It sounds like you don’t want to divorce because of the financial support your DH brings which enables you not to work but I think you’re quite vulnerable. In his shoes, I think I would start to resent supporting a stay at home partner who resents pulling their weight in the home.

With the lack of sexual and emotional intimacy, I think there’s a real chance he will look to move on once the DCs are older. There are posts like that on here every so often from wives in similar circumstances to yours but with children who are on the verge of adulthood.

I’m sure you have loads to offer, OP, but it sounds like you’ve lost yourself. Getting into paid employment may well help
with that. At least find one or two day-time hobbies that you can feel passionate and excited about. Volunteer in a soup kitchen or something.

@thebiggestrantingcompetition - sorry, missed your update and understand that your youngest has only just started school. Yes, joining the leisure centre sounds a good idea. Find yourself again.