Is this a normal M &T group or is it bitchy?

[roseychks]

I need some quick non-judgemental advice. Not sure where to post either. I'm also a first time mothers (although I guess you can tell from my post

There are 8 Mums and babies who meet up once or twice a month. Group was set up by health visitor at local surgery but we now meet up at each others houses. It works ok - useful support. I am not sure how/ why but it feels bitchy but I can't put my finger on it. I think the reason is that some of the others make comments about each others parenting skills behind each others backs and it makes me feel really uncomfortable. I've tried gently saying 'well we all do things differently etc' only to be shot down and I think the others feel that I'm a bit bland.

It's also made me wonder how I am discussed when I am not there, and i feel a bit 'super-sensitive about it when I am normally quite ok with constructive criticism. DD is too young for the other toddler groups around here and I do like many of the other mums although two or three esp take a lead in the comments. When I mentioned it to a friend with an older child she told me that all M&T groups were like that -it comes with the territory.

1. Is this kind of chat in M & T groups normal? I am genuinely curious.
2. Am I being a bit oversensitive? Sorry for length!

I forced myself to go to a group when we moved to a new area and decided it was the only way I'd make friends. The first one I tried wasn't at all welcoming and I never went back. The second was great and I really did make some lasting friendships from that.

I'm still glad that I don't have to do the whole M&T thing anymore though.

You must live near me! I was in a group of 8 Mums and the same happened in our group, led by 2 or 3 girls in particular.

I felt uncomfortable for a long time, but stuck with it for various reasons. After nearly 3 years I stopped going, cos the bitching became so blatent and only certain girls were invited to evenings out etc etc. Not one has ever contacted me since. I could have gone under a bus for all they care. Not how I count my friends......

My only regret is that I didn't stop going when the first warning bells sounded.

Good luck, whatever you decide

How horrible, Beakysmum, to have wasted so much time. I think we read about others' good experiences and idealise how things can be, but it doesn't always live up to expectations.

You can shove these groups straight up your backside for me, I'm afraid. Bloody hell, I never knew so many geniuses were born in one year - but yes, apparently so!! and they all happened to be in that one m&t group. What are the chances?

Ah thanks, Cristina!

Am very happy now with various friends I have met through different places, plus spending time at home with dc. I do think it is all too easy to spend so much time out chatting to others girls that you barely notice your own child grow. Will get off my soap box now!!!

I must have been lucky; none of the groups I went to were like that. Maybe once in a while one Mum would try it on but got no encouragement from the rest so quickly piped down. I enjoyed the groups I went to.

I hung out with a group of mummies with my first born for over 3 years even though I had nothing in common and often nothing to say - which wasn't like me! Thankfully as DD is now older I have met more mums who I actually enjoy being with and have a laugh! It is such a relief. Being with people you don't really get on with makes you paranoid and insecure I found... (which might explain the bitchiness too)

Think it's all been said really. If you go to the local parks, swings, etc as the weather gets warmer you may find mums you get on better with.

After experiences like yours at M and T groups, I found that when I started chatting to a woman who I felt a good vibe from I'd ask for her number. 9 times out 10 she'd be happy to exchange numbers, and I made most of my best friends like that...

I go to a different activity everyday. I am friendly with people but dont consider myself part of a clique or group. Much better that way to avoid just this type of thing. If someone does say anything derogatory I just smile and say 'well we all do things differently don't we'. Over time I have found I have got on better with some than others and have developed individual freindships outside of the M&T Group.

It's not all M&T groups per se... it's all women.. (well most). It's what women do. Sadly.

Do you mind chocolate? It isn't what most women do and it certainly isn't what I do. If the women in your circle do this, find a new circle.

In my experience - get a group of women together and there will be bitching.

It's why when women get together in groups of 3 or more, we are there for HOURS - nobody dare be the first to leave!

It seems - again in my experience - to be a fundimental difference between men and women - men discuss things women discuss people

No, men discuss fantasy football which is neither a person nor a thing but a tremendous time-wasting virtual piece of crap.

Also, it allows men to engage in bitching about other men (oh that Cole - he's crap) without having to admit it to themselves.

I've worked in a predominantly male environment for years, and I think men often discuss other men in derogatory terms. The only difference is that they are much worse at it - no subtlety or humour...

redamiral - I totally agree! I have worked in male environments and men bitch as much if not more about other men (and women for that matter) with far less of the redeeming stuff women do like being supportive/understanding. It really makes me laugh what makes people think men DONT bitch - course they do its just not named bitching. Same goes for nagging - men flipping well nag but its not given a sterotypcal name people can bandy about...grrr gets down off rant stand!

same here redadmiral

Women don't tend to describe other women as "gay" as a term of abuse

I wouldn't go if there was this bitchy undercurrent. It's not nice. I th ink there is an arguement that it is inevitable, as we all do different things, and sometimes people deal with situations in the opposite way that you would. BUT, it sounds like bitching for bitchiness sake. If you keep going, I woudl stand up to it - say the things you do do about 'we all do ti differently', but also say that it is not right to judge people and talk about it behind their back - if they have a problem, the decent thing would be to explain their views to the person.

All the M&T groups I attended were like this

Life'sa too short to be uncomfortable around a group of women you probably have nowt in common with.

I used to attend a group in which was a similar set up to that in the OP, I stopped after a while because I was never rich/thin/pretty enough for the group. I used to get lots of snidey comments about my appearance and the fact that I wasn;t amrried and that DP doen;t earn buckets of moolah.

So instead, I used to take DS1 to the park. I met lots of nice mums there, (and a SAHD) who I still see occasionally now, and it never pressurised or uncomfortable, we justy have a laugh and comiserate with one another about how shit lack of sleep/tantrums etc can be.

I have also made 2 really good friendfs through MN, both of whgom I see as much as I can, and both of whom I'd be happy to go out on the piss with.

Calm down Margo.. I said most. Work envionments especially which I think is because people are trying to break the monotony (even in a job they enjoy.) I have been doing a little informal study of this lately (slight digression here) and noted how very inane most of the topics of discussion between work colleagues actually are.. they will talk/laugh about all manner of stupid/boring/pointless/unfunny things they probably wouldn't bother mentioning at in other circumstances.

Similarly though.. with bitching (and there are different catoegories.. "affectionate" bitching", "jokey" bitching, "gossipy" bitching and downright "nasty" bitching) is something to fill the time at work.

It's a bit different in social environments and I think it arises from people not being entirely sure of themselves and wanting to reassure themselves that they fit in, as opposed to the unfortunate currently being bitched about.

And there ends my self-commissioned thesis on bitching.

I thank you

I have been to two M+T groups and really liked both.

It might be connected and it might not but both have been run by local churches - although by no means all those who attend are members. Most, if not all, of the local churches round here have a group at least one day a week so there are several to choose from. I only stopped going to the first because they had to change the day and the timing no longer worked for me. I missed it and was relieved when a new one began in another church that I and dd could go to. We might well continue going even when she begins her "ante-pre-school" year next August.

I've never been aware of any bitchiness at either group. IME, having kids the same age can bring you together with other women but you'll only become friends if you are "compatible". Whether that happens or not, it's still social contact and I value that.

I didn't much like mother and toddler sessions, i took my daughter when she was a couple of months old, in a place i was unfamiliar with, people i didn't know, can't really imagine why i went now to be honest, just thought that it was what i should be doing, because i thought that's what mothers did! Boring as hell. There are so many other, better ways to socialise, with children.

My group aren't like that. I've never heard any of them moaning about each other. I'd find another group to hang out with if I were you.

I still see my group after 18 months, although it does bore me to tears as all we talk about is babies (funny that!). Its good for DS though. I think too many mums together mean you can't really chat as no one can get a word in. I prefer it when theres just 2 or 3 of us.

If you're not happy I'd just stop going.

I must admit that there was a 'let's not judge' woman at my postnatal group. We didn't bitch about each other, but if anyone said anything about celebrities or the civil servant said something about her minister, she'd come out with 'everybody's different' and it completely kills the conversation. We'd be hearing some amusing gossip about a cabinet minister and she'd say 'we'll everyone has a different way of doing things'. It was really annoying.

I'd stop going and find some M&T groups instead. It isn't usually the same mothers every week so you could meet someone nice.

meant 'well' not 'we'll'.