Herd of narcissists or is it me?

[Isitmeitisisntit]

I don’t want to go into lots of detail as outing but I had a major life event last year and a milestone birthday. I have some health concerns and am seeing life as short. I’m really thinking about what’s important.

At times I feel I have such clarity. But then at other times I think I’m going mad.

I am seeing the behaviour of some people through new eyes and it seems like it’s narcissistic. I hadn’t realised until the big event (that was about me and my loss) but they were more focused on them.

How would I know if I was the problem?

So my mother: I’ve looked back and at every significant life event for me, she has had an emotional outburst. For example at my wedding day she came up to me complaining that xyz wasn’t right for her. Every time I see her she moans and groans. She hit me multiple times in frustration when I wouldn’t open my GCSE results. She’s fallen out with DH recently because he challenged her on something. She’s cut people out of her life before. She pulled a face when I tried on my wedding dress in front of her. Those are a couple of examples. There is worse but very outing.

DH I married because he was kind and caring but now I see he is only kind and caring on his terms. So if I present as vulnerable, tearful or needy he responds kindly. If I just say ‘I’m feeling X because of Y’ he tells me I can’t be or should get over it. If I ask him to change his behaviour I’m a bully and controlling but he feels totally fine to tell me I’m doing X Y Z wrong. He loves helping others and will talk at length about his good deeds but at home will say he will do X but then doesn’t. He can’t tolerate any kind of criticism and sees criticism where there is none. Super sensitive. He never says sorry. He sulks. He storms off and sits on the floor when he doesn’t like something (if I don’t back down). He lies to cover up mistakes.

DSis tries to emotionally blackmail me into doing things I don’t want to. Gets angry about all sorts. She falls out with everyone and has no long standing friends. Her daughters don’t want anything to do with her.

I’ve always been the peacemaker, the calm keeper, the listener and the compassionate one. I’ve appeased and gone along with. Tried to pre empt and avoid conflict.

I’m now too overwhelmed to do this. I’ve got a lot going on and I need support. It’s become really clear it’s not there from these three people. They actually have made it all much harder. I haven’t told them about my health concerns yet because I don’t trust them to be sensitive.

I don’t want to play the peace Kepler and calm keeper role now and I’m just seeing the behaviour and how manipulative it is and how I’ve been organised by it. I don’t like them anymore and want them out of my life. but can’t do that. I have DC.

I have lots of lovely long standing friends. I tend to get along with most people. But, if three close relations are making me feel like this, may be it’s me? Is it me? I can be a bit grumpy from time to time. But only under duress. It’s not my main mode. I’m kind and thoughtful. Calm in a crisis. I do get frustrated and show it with DH and DM now. I can’t hide it now the scales have fallen (or I’ve lost the plot). I am just so angry at them both for not being there when I needed them most and for giving me so much emotional labour with no thought to my well-being.

Sorry it’s vague. Not sure if it makes sense but if anyone reads this and replies, thank you. I’m feeling really bewildered tonight as DH not speaking to me because I asked him not to talk to me angrily about a miner thing.

Hi OP didn't want to read and run.
This sounds like such a lonely existence, and one where you can't really be yourself at home. You're being emotionally manipulated by your DH for sure. What awful behaviour from him.
No one is perfect and I'm sure you have your bad points, and relationships can get stuck in toxic patterns of behaviour and communication. We all have elements of narcissism at times, but a real narc doesn't question themselves like you are here. So take some comfort in that.
What do you want to happen? What's your long term plan? Because right now, the relationship doesn't sound like it's working. 💐

Thank you for replying. I know it’s a very vague thread. Your reply is really thoughtful. It is reassuring to think that I wouldn’t question myself I was narcissistic. When I read that, I thought about it, and DH, DM and DSis don’t question themselves, that I know of. DM and DSis both have a ‘the world is against me’ narrative. DH has an ‘I am a kind and giving person so I couldn’t have done anything wrong’ narrative. All three of them have lots of unmet childhood need but not had therapy or only just started it. I’ve done a lot of work on myself over the years (and still feel confused 🫤)!

I feel manipulated by all three. I also feel that if I try to assert myself it really throws them. I am doing it more and more and not appeasing and going along with the emotional blackmail. But then I worry I’m being unkind or uncaring. If I assert my needs I end up feeling like a selfish cow. I can’t tell if I am being one or if I’m so used to putting my needs last that I just feel that way because I’m not used to it.

For example DM won’t ask for what she wants. She hints, moans, probably moans to others that I don’t do anything for her, but I’ve said to her, on several occasions ‘if you need anything just ask’. So now, if she doesn’t ask, I don’t do. It feels mean but saves me so much headspace because I’m not tying myself in knots trying to figure out what she needs/wants and what will make her happy. Is it mean? I could never get it right anyway so this way if I only do what she asks me to do, I can’t get it wrong.

Marriage is tricky. I’ve asked him to leave three times and he refused. He said it’s not good enough for DC to ‘give up’ and if I want to separate then I need to go. Which I can’t bear the thought of because I either leave DC or unsettle them with a move to god knows where as there no rentals here at all. We share parenting 50/50. I’m a bit trapped really. I did hold a line around his angry outbursts and he is getting therapy now. Not sure he’s given her the full picture though.

It’s helpful just to write it all down really. Helps me order my thoughts. I have a counsellor and am seeing her next week but I’m just feeling really low this week.

It is not possible to have a relationship with such disordered of thinking people like your sister, mother and now husband.

Your mother was and remains abusive towards you and your sister is a carbon copy of her. She is the golden child, a role not without price either but she is unaware of that. You are the scapegoat for all their inherent ills.

Its no coincidence you went onto marry someone like your H; your mother gave you a flawed blueprint of relationships and taught you a lot of damaging lessons about relationships. You became a people pleaser, a peacekeeper amongst other things. Now you are asserting yourself the fear, obligation and guilt buttons your mother installed with you further come into play. Deal with your FOG through therapy. Have a look too at the Out of the FOG website and read Children of the Self Absorbed by Nina W Brown.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?.

Re your comment:
"I don’t want to play the peace Kepler and calm keeper role now and I’m just seeing the behaviour and how manipulative it is and how I’ve been organised by it. I don’t like them anymore and want them out of my life. but can’t do that. I have DC."

Having children yourself does not mean you should further subject them to either your mother and sister. You cannot use your children either as a reason to keep either your mother or sister in your life; they could grow up with the same old issues that you're been battling in yourself. If they are too toxic/abusive/difficult for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your children too.

Do not leave your DC with your abusive H either. These types of men always but always refuse to leave. He is only a man and not the boss of you although he likes to think he is. He's likely also paying lip service to therapy and abusers do poorly in therapy in any case. Its not going to work for him and besides which he will need years of therapy, not a mere course.

I would urge you to seek legal advice if you have not done so already and firm up plans going forward to leave him. This is no relationship example to be showing your children either.

I would also suggest you contact Womens Aid and the Rights of Women re your H and marriage as they could both help you going forward.

I hope your counsellor proves to be helpful to you, you may also want to look at and or post on the current "Well we took you to stately homes" thread on these Relationships pages.

Sorry you're going through this, OP. I grew up with narcissistic parents, and I am an absolute magnet for narcs. (I have also been working on resolving some of my own narcissistic traits.) If you grow up with narc parents, like your DM, then it's common to find yourself attracting others, like your DH. Their behaviour feels familiar and normal to you, and they recognise that you're someone who will put up with them.

The answer is not necessarily to get them all out of you life, but to put in place firm boundaries. Decide what you will and won't put up with, communicate your boundaries clearly, and stick to them rigidly. Expect pushback. Use the stuck record technique and communicate your boundaries firmly over and over again until they realise you won't back down. Rinse and repeat until they get the message that you are no longer for pushing around.

But then I worry I’m being unkind or uncaring.

If you google 'Fear, Obligation, Guilt' they are the three emotions that are used to control us. And while you are there, look up the Karpman Drama Triangle - Victim, Persecutor, Rescuer. You might find it fits their behaviour patterns, and once you can recognise them you can start to predict how they will react next.

https://outofthefog.website/what-it-feels-like

If you change how you behave they are forced to change how they behave.
I would avoid contact. So they can’t mistreat you.
And with DH stand firm and see how it goes but consider that divorce might be the best option.
I changed my behaviour with needy DB - just answered oh dear with his endless ‘problems’.
He stopped trying it on with his needs.

Narcissistic people do not like boundaries and will actively rail against them. The only people who actually bother with narcissists are those who have received the Special Trainibg ie the now adult children of same.

Do not continue to have these people in your life.

Might you be seeing things through different eyes since this life changing event? It's easy for those around you to be unsure how to 'be' around you and feel like they can't do right for doing wrong (as the saying goes) but that doesn't mean they''ve all turned into narcissists. It might be simply that you don't actually know what you want from them but everything they do/say feels wrong to you because of your mindset.

You're sort of pushing them away but you don't want them to go.

It might be that you need to speak to someone outside of your family/friends unit to work through how this life changing event is affecting you emotionally.

Give yourself a big pat on the back for recognizing their behaviour. They will push back and rally against you because you aren't playing our assigned role. Agree with the other poster in that it's not surprising you have "chosen" or allowed yourself to be chosen by a similar kind of person in your relationship - you've been role modelled the wrong behaviour. Problem is that once you have seen it you can't unsee it. You've been trained to be easy going, compliant. WHat do you want? you probably aren't used to being asked that - if it's to bin the lot of them off then that's fine.

I agree that the adult children of narcissists tend to attract/be attracted to narcissists. Narcissists can be pretty subtle when they want though, they can be well liked and popular, they tend to want people to like them and will do what is required for that to happen. They can be very helpful and appear to be very kind - it's all very superficial but it can be very confusing until you realise what is going on.

I wouldn't look to any of these people to be able to give you what you need unfortunately as they will not be able to do it. You need to look after yourself, find a good friend or talk to a professional.

I agree with all of this. I relate to what you’re saying op - I’ve also attracted a lot of narcissists!
Relatives (Can’t change) and especially friends and partners (though I’m single at the moment)
mmm I’m still on the journey but I’ve found reading up on covert narcissism really helpful and trying to bolster my self and not be pulled into ‘guilt’ or automatically following their version of events
personally I’ve treated each person that’s still in my life individually - ie boundaries with my parents actually have actually moved us to a stable place eventually (albeit not perfect). With such friends - I’ve kind of gently drifted rather than causing drama.
I realise it’s more complicated with your husband
not sure about your sis exactly what’s going on - ie scale of how much she’s intruding in your life. Eg if she get angry with you won’t go along with her plans…, or if she’s just a general angry stewing in her own tea type of person who can be put up with (alongside some boundaries)

the thing I’ve personally found most challenging is passive aggressive anger that isn’t acknowledged! I’ve found lots of things around narcissism naturally came to a head once I was changing myself.

sounds a lot to work through - feeling you.

just one more thought - I guess I’d distinguish between wanting emotional support and where from, and rebalancing the relationships?