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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this a red flag or am I overly sensitive?

50 replies

Whoniverse · 11/02/2024 19:56

I might be a bit oversensitive here so would appreciate some thoughts.
I had a bit of an argument with my bf and it made me think afterwards. We were out in town and I wanted to give some change to a homeless woman we passed. He didn’t try to stop me from doing it but made some pretty horrible comments about homeless people and sex workers(“vermin”, and “giving them money is like feeding pigeons”). There were also some comments that I found quite misogynistic and I pulled him up on it. In the end we agreed to disagree and leave the topic, but I felt bad afterwards.
We have had some disagreements about similar topics in the past but we generally just accept that we are different and don’t argue about it. I’d like to believe that I care for people and I believe that everyone deserves to be treated with respect, and he sees people entirely differently. He’s not a bad person and very loving with me but he has the empathy of a brick when it comes to people in general. We don’t fight often and we are happy but the argument has now made me wonder if I’m naive or oversensitive. It was really a stupid and pointless thing to argue about but I really got to me somehow.

OP posts:
Pinkbonbon · 12/02/2024 04:46

It makes me think of a great piece of advice advice heard: 'never marry someone who would be a bastard in a divorce'.

You've already seen how he talks about people who he doesn't like. That's the contempt you'll get too when you fall off the pedestal.

gentlemum · 12/02/2024 04:51

I don't think it can be described as a red flag as such but it depends how important it is that you have the same values and opinions. You clearly differ on these kind of topics so how important is it that you share the same view? His view is not going to change and there'll likely be more comments on such things, so can you live with that?

Shoxfordian · 12/02/2024 05:45

He doesn't sound very nice and that'll come round to you at some point

winterwarmer8274 · 12/02/2024 05:59

My ex would make comments like this. Not necessarily about homeless people, but he would look down on people in ‘lesser jobs’.

Calling deliveroo drivers ‘plebs’ and ‘retards’ for example. I hated it and would cringe everytime he did it. He never called me those words, but he could be very nasty in other ways.

I didn’t see it for a long time, but he also 100% lacked empathy and it caused a lot of problem in our relationship.

Whenever I was stressed or upset, he would have zero empathy for me. He could never see things from my point of view and eventually the relationship broke down.

Now that kind of behaviour would be a major red flag for me. Theres absolutely no need for it and he has NO idea why that person is in the situation they’re in. It’s just plain horrible.

foxlover47 · 12/02/2024 06:00

Not for me
I even feed pigeons lol
His comments reveal who he really is

foxlover47 · 12/02/2024 06:01

@Pinkbonbon that is great advice

BCBird · 12/02/2024 06:09

Calling people vermin.is unforgiveable
What is he like when you go out with towards serving staff? Does he generally treat people with disdain?

Watchkeys · 12/02/2024 06:15

I think it might be helpful to realise that there's no 'right' or 'wrong', here. Nobody has to be respectful of other people, and we've all got our own individual opinions of what's ok and what isn't. He's not breaking any rules by doing/saying what he does. Equally, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' about how you feel about things. You can't be over-sensitive unless there is a 'correct' level of sensitive that we're all meant to be aiming for. Your sensitivity is a demonstration of your true personality; of who you are, and whilst you might feel that what he says is awful, another person might feel that watching you eat meat was equally offensive, because they're vegan, and it means a lot to them, whilst you think it's fine and normal. Trying to quell your own feelings is trying to quell your own nature. It's a denial of the reality of the shape of your own individuality, and it's the ultimate in disrespecting yourself.

You feel strongly about this, and yet you continue to be in a relationship with someone who demonstrates values which directly contradict your own. Not only that, but he continues to say these things in front of you, knowing that it will bother you. Have a think about why a person would do that. He could think it but not say it, couldn't he? And, if you're arguing about it, he must be pushing it further by insisting he's right when you object. This is all about his ego. Why do you think he needs to be so vociferous about putting people down?

So, it's not just his opinions that are bothering you; it's what they say about him, and what voicing them to you says about how he feels about you. He's putting women down, and when you say you don't like it, he's dismissing your feelings. Someone upthread said that if he's misogynistic, you yourself will come up against that at some point, as a woman. Well, you already have. He's already pitting his own ego against yours, and, in his own mind, he's winning, because you come out of it thinking that perhaps, after all, your feelings are worth dismissing, and you should accept his.

Pardon my French, but fuck that. You say he's a nice bloke most of the time. Well, so was Hitler. Lovely bloke to have tea and cake with, apparently. Very sweet and affectionate, very loving and considerate with animals etc etc. Many serial killers are nice, normal people nearly all the time... they just have this one 'unhealthy' hobby, which shocks those close to them to the core, because they think he's such a 'nice' person. I'm not suggesting that your partner is like Hitler or a serial killer. My point is that people can have a side to them that makes all their loveliness irrelevant, because they're just awful in some respect.

It's up to you to decide what's 'awful' to you. But your feelings aren't pesky annoyances to be squashed as they come up, like-whack-a-mole. They are your signposts to a happy life. They are your indicators of whether you are in the right place/with the right people/doing the right thing. Listen to them and respect them, and your life will become emotionally safer and more secure by the day. Your feelings are who you are: respecting them is respecting yourself.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/02/2024 06:17

No you are not compatible. Why are you dating someone who you describe as having the empathy of a housebrick?. What does that make you by association?.

Raise your relationship bar and give this man the boot.

You are already being dragged down with him.

Watchkeys · 12/02/2024 06:17

@BCBird

Calling people vermin.isunforgiveable

This is subjective. You personally might find it unforgivable. I would agree. There will be others who will it forgivable, though, and there are no rules or arbitration.

We must each decide for ourselves, according to our own feelings, and base the shape of our lives around our own judgements.

Newnamehiwhodis · 12/02/2024 06:18

Yeah. Wow. No compassion in those nasty comments.
I have an ex who used to speak like this - it took me far too long to realize that he secretly thought of everyone else this way. Including me.

I wouldn’t stay with him. Sorry

Justleaveitblankthen · 12/02/2024 06:21

It's great that he's shown you who he is so early on, you can call it a day.

My ex waited until waaay down the line to reveal he was a misogynist of the worst kind (women shouldn't drive/should stay in the home etc) We were split up by then, but together by circumstances.

I used to feel mortified of any of my friends and family knowing I had chosen a man who was overtly misogynistic, racist, homophobic 😳

People will judge you by the company you keep.

whathappenedno · 12/02/2024 06:33

This would concern me. Homeless people and sexworkers are human beings who for whatever reason have ended up in awful situations and typically had untold suffering. Reducing people to 'vermin ' is abhorrent.

For me I would be concerned what his morals/ethics and stance on the world is generally. And a lack of empathy would concern me. The likelihood is as some point his views will butt heads with yours and the longer you are together the harder that would be to negotiate as your lives become more entrenched. For example if you decide to have children would you feel comfortable with his views being shared as they get older?

HenndigoOZ · 12/02/2024 06:40

I wouldn’t be happy with that behaviour or way of speaking. Of course he treats you well, he is wooing you. If he acted that way with everyone he would never get a relationship.

He is also testing you to see how much you are willing to tolerate and let go in the relationship, since you are at the honeymoon stage. As you get deeper into the relationship without challenging him, it will be harder to extricate yourself from the dynamic that began in the early days.

You need to test him now while you can and let him know those values fundamentally contradict yours. If he goes away, thinks about it and then makes a donation to a homeless charity, he shows he can be worked with. But if he argues back then you will have a clearer picture on the future of the relationship.

Lurkingandlearning · 12/02/2024 06:53

I’m guessing you’ve not been together for long and, as always, you’re learning more about who he is when the initial effort to show his best side wains. We almost all present our best side at the beginning of relationships.

As you actually work to help vulnerable people and he sees them as vermin do you think that difference in values is going to make you happy long term? If you don’t, cut your losses and find someone you can be happy with.

PacketMixer · 12/02/2024 07:14

Everyone is saying the same thing here with good reason. You can find another man who is nothing like this one. Don’t tie yourself to a man with these views. You’re a part of his worldview too which includes this level of dehumanising talk. You won’t be immune to his fears and beliefs that he projects on to other people.

determinedtomakethiswork · 12/02/2024 07:15

Why on earth would you want to be with someone who has no empathy?

SheerLucks · 12/02/2024 07:17

I'll always remember reading that a massive proportion of homeless people have been sexually abused as children, which is why their self-esteem and confidence is just too low to enable them to exist in the normal world.

Before everything went cashless I regularly gave them money, now I'll often buy them something on my card if I'm shopping in the place they're sitting outside.

I'm sorry OP but your BF just doesn't sound like a very intelligent or decent human being, and I would seriously reconsider your relationship.

LightSpeeds · 12/02/2024 07:39

mildlydispeptic · 11/02/2024 20:06

In my experience if he's that misogynistic about other women, sooner or later you'll have your own problems with him.

This is what I think, too. He's loving now, but if the relationship goes downhill you will be on the receiving end of that nastiness.

Cakeandcardio · 12/02/2024 09:38

You do need to think about possible future children absorbing those views. Is that something you would be OK with?

gannett · 12/02/2024 09:59

I once went on a date with a man who made similar comments (I believe the exact words were "tower block scum"). I think I sat there in stunned silence for about 10 seconds while I processed the fact that someone had dared say those words out loud, tried to think of a comeback, couldn't, so just gathered my things and walked out of the restaurant without saying anything else.

gannett · 12/02/2024 10:00

Anyway, yes, good dating advice: it doesn't matter if they treat you like a princess if they treat other people like shit.

OhVienna24 · 12/02/2024 10:14

What are his politics like? I can well imagine with those awful comments.

Whoniverse · 13/02/2024 08:52

Thank you all

OP posts:
OceanicBoundlessness · 13/02/2024 09:54

That's awful. He's not just showing a lack of empathy but actively dehumanising them with his language, ' vermin'. Who sees another human being and thinks that?!
Massive red flag that I would not be ignoring. That's if it hadn't destroyed any shred of attraction anyway.

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