Really triggering segment on Radio 2 today on family estrangement, did anyone else hear it? Anyone affected by it.

[estraaanged]

Was driving between work appts today listening to Radio 2 and Jeremy Vine was on with a segment about King Charles' cancer diagnosis. Fair enough.

But he had some kind of woman posturing herself as an expert going on and on about how illness in the family can heal family rifts (vis a vis Harry)

Which I'm sure it does in many cases and I don't object to as a viewpoint.

But rather than acknowledge AT ANY POINT that sometimes estrangement is better than remaining in an abusive situation she kept going on and on "families are bound together FOREVER. You are better off accepting that people are flawed because FAMILIES LOVE EACH OTHER AND LOOK OUT FOR EACH OTHER."

I accept it's her viewpoint but it's really hurtful to hear someone shouting on the radio about how estrangement is just a rift that can be healed as love and support is there when you've been abused in your own family and removed yourself and your children from it to prevent further abuse.

Just wondered if anyone else heard her hectoring on and on and if it triggered them, too?

I've been estranged from my family for 7 years due to rampant sexual abuse in the family and because no way was I letting my kids be the next victims, so I have absolutely zero regrets.

I just hate this culture of minimising estrangement as a petty rift, feels like collusion with allowing abuse to go on in the name of 'family'.

Completely agree with you OP

" 'Family estrangement' can actually be a really empowering choice. I wish there was more discussion of that." from @mindutopia

Excellent comment. Nearly two decades estranged from my parents & it's been one of the most positive things I've ever done.

I think people are scared by this possibility because it's easier to take those bonds for granted than consider whether you are being the best parent / sibling / aunt / grandparent you can be every day.

AND people are threatened by the existence of what you might call 'nice' child abuse. Those clean decent homes where you just wouldn't think there was violence & addiction & humiliation & daily hell. 🙄 (Or you would if you cared to look, but you can't be bothered...)

I didn't hear the broadcast, but she sounds like a prat.

What are this woman's credentials? Who declared her an expert, apart from her?

She sounds like an idiot. I do think that often they wheel out any old crap to fill up airtime on the radio.

Oh god yes, and we see it all the time on mn too. Zero understanding that just because they have a mum who’s reasonable, doesn’t mean everyone else does.

That woman sounds like a prize idiot, and I do wonder if they deliberately choose “experts” who will wind people up and get them talking about the programme.

It’s astonishing that anyone can think all family “rifts” can be healed. Should the sexually abused daughter make it up with her father over a cup of tea? Do they not understand that it takes both parties to attempt a reconciliation, and if one party consistently lies, attacks and distorts, you absolutely cannot have a conversation with them? Either she’s thick or deliberately ignoring what happens in some families.

Re: Jeremy Vine. I used to be in a group with someone who is a regular contributor. They are completely unbearable and eventually flounced from our group because we would all shut down the crap they were spouting. So not a good track record for 'experts'.

Re: Estrangement. I have said on MN before and will say again, it needs to be done carefully and with forethought. Research evidence shows 70% people regret estrangement. This is NOT to say people should not estrange from family members who are toxic and harmful. But it is a very difficult path to take. I say this as someone who is estranged from several family members who are not only toxic but criminal. It is a constant source of sadness for me, although I know it is the right choice. I have a 'friend' who has several times said she 'cant imagine cutting off a family member' and is not open to trying to understand why it is necessary. I think a lot of people cannot imagine beyond their own experience - and conflate their family experience with yours. It is a cruel and stupid thing to do.

Sorry this happened @estraaanged .

25 years of no contact with my son, and I still feel relief.

Most people will never understand and that's ok.

OP, you just have to ignore what people say if it doesn't align with your experience.

I've been estranged from other for 12 years. I've never regretted it. Not even for a second and, when life has dealt us a difficult blow, the only thing I've been thankful for was that mother wasn't there to revel in it.

You know what your experience is, I know what mine is and she was just talking from her own experience and opinion. It isn't more valid than yours.

It may well be the case that 70% of estrangement ae regretted. So what? That doesn't have anything to do with you or your experience.

My daughter had a remark from someone who vaguely knew her father from whom she is estranged for perfectly good reason. He thought she should "make up" as "life's too short". Doesnt know any of what happened. I'm glad I wasn't there to hear what he said. People should think before they speak.

A friend of mine referred my family as a ‘broken home’ as I remarried. Our family is really happy, settle and unproblematic.
She having an affair, her home life is unhappy, her children have behavioural issues. They have witnessed her and her husband fighting and smashing things. She’s left her children alone to meet her boyfriend. She’s a former friend tbh.

Research evidence shows 70% people regret estrangement

Does that research mean 'regret that they severed contact', 'regret the other party severed contact' or that they regret it was necessary to be estranged?

That's the sort of statistic that needs defining, because it can be misused easily to push a certain viewpoint.

I regret very deeply the necessity for estrangement. But necessary it was, both for my own sake and for my childrens'.

She's nieve. People don't cut their family off without good reason. I think sometimes there's a 'staw that broke the camels back' moment that maybe looks trivial to an onlooker but for the person there's probably been years of toxicity and abuse. They go no contact for the sake of their safety and sanity, its not about holding a silly grudge.

If you read my post you will see I am also estranged from a couple of family members. I also work in MH and have spend 20+ years talking to people about their MH so have talked to many, many people who are or who are contemplating estrangement. I do not agree with the woman who was on the radio.

However, I also have talked to people long estranged who are still dealing with difficult feelings about the whole situation. The 70% I mentioned encompasses a whole host of things, including those like me who are clear that estrangement needs to happen but are still saddened by not having functional family members and the kind of relationships that would lead to. Every holiday that talks emphasizes family can make me mourn for the family I never had and the opportunities that I will not have - relationships with children, someone who is on your side, someone you can look up to. I have also talked to people who feel they or others acted rashly, whose FOG means they constantly feel guilty, who hope that their family member will change - a whole host of things. Estrangement is not a once and done for everyone.

My post is not a criticism of people who decide they need to cut off contact with a relative. But it is good to know how hard it can be and that this can be ongoing.

It depends on the reasons for the estrangement, but, yes, sometimes, health issues can mend rifts.

Sounds like another #bekind mouthpiece. You don't owe an explanation to anyone but I agree there is a lot of trivialising.

I think 🤔 it depends on the individual circumstances too..

One thing I find a lot is that pressure comes from partners and spouses and it is tremendously painful but can also really cause people to doubt themselves. Because most families have ups and downs, many people project this onto someone with an estrangement and feel it is unreasonable.

Spectactularly missing the point of the OP, but ok. I wasn't objecting to her observation that medical issues can heal rifts. But to her insistence that families always love and look out for one another with no acknowledgement that some of us go through hell with families that don't love us, and in fact abuse us.

I did not hear it but it would have made my blood boil.

I am not estranged from my family because "they're faaaaaamily" and my "one and only motherrrrrr" apparently loves me and has always done her best. And because "nobody but faaaaamily can be trusted". I have been brought up with this narrative and it is very hard to shake off. I am still doing my level best not to get to the point of estrangement. This effort has meant putting up with half a century of abuse, gaslighting, vile behaviour, guilt, shame etc etc.

It is possible that I will one day get to the point of estrangement now that I have seen the abuse for what it was and is. If I sever ties it will be forever, come what may.

People do not split from their families lightly over some little spat. And families absolutely do not all love each other and look out for each other, even when they claim to do just that.

Sometimes @Cranarc low contact is the better option - its not easy but can feel more managable if you have decent support and can keep boundaries without being sucked back in. Whatever you decide, good luck with it.

On Jeremy Vine? You should have called in and explained this to her and called her a stupid uninformed moron. You should have asked her if she thought a violent rapist father getting ill meant that his children should make up with him.

@Atethehalloweenchocs Thank you for your extra post. I had read that you were estranged from some family too, but your further post laid out more nuance and the complexities of feelings around estrangement.

To put it bluntly, it sucks and it hurts.

Thanks @DancesWithDucks - you nailed it. Sucky and hurty. Forever. Hugs to anyone in that situation.

Same.

That's a very good point that the straw that breaks the camel's back can make the final decision appear trivial. And obviously is the narrative trotted by monsters who pretend to be utterly perplexed that you finally, finally cut them off.