Dad Relationship

[Spring740]

Posted before but just need some additional advice.
To provide context: parents divorced 20 plus years ago. Dad didn't treat mum well, IMO he was abusive emotionally and narcisistic.
Up to recently still asking me about her whereabouts etc until I told him in no uncertain terms to stop etc.

Years have gone on and sister, brother in law and dad have become a tightly closed unit.
As a result Mum,my hubby and myself now very close.
Over a year ago sister banned mum from seeing her only grandson for no reason other than she doesn't hugely gel with BIL & mum won't 'convert' to how they think she should live her life e.g. be far more macho and loud, far stronger and robust ( mums nearly 70 and a very gentle lady!) cancel her own hobbies to fit around them, take an interest in rugby, (these are my BILs ways of living, not my mums).

Mum is one of the nicest people going and has made much effort, been kind, thoughtful and tried everything to make the relationship work.

Because of all this, during the last 12-18 months, my relationship with Dad has continued to go downhill and Dad has tried to have a relationship with me where he seems quite happy never to arrange or suggest seeing me, but just text me weekly with fairly bland statements. Caring statements, but bland and it all seems a bit pointless if you're never going to see someone.

I eventually distanced myself from Dad because of how badly my mum had been treated (I don't feel it's fair he has a great relationship with both my sister and with me too, whilst my mum suffers for no reason. I also think he and my BIL are a large part of the reason that my sister has become so vile towards my mum - she has bullied her verbally for a long time. She's now utterly horrid to her) and also because I felt a lot of anger towards him, that I couldn't trust him and because I couldn't take this purely text relationship. I essentially said to him the only way we can continue with our relationship, is if / when my sister allows my mum to see her grandson again.

Essentially I tried to use myself as a bribe to get my Dad to act and speak to my sister about how cruel she was being to my mum. It was all I could think to do.

I explained all my feelings to him but got absolutely nowhere.

He is like a brick wall - nothing moves him, nothing changes him, he denies anything and everything and you just get nowhere. I don't think he even believed some of the things I said, favouring my sister instead.

As a result we did not have any contact for about 3 months. I then found out I was pregnant end Dec 2023 and arranged to meet to tell him F2F out of respect.

What's happening now is that his texting has started up again. Pointless texting with no prospect of having a proper relationship. I would never stop him from seeing a grandchild as I think thats so very low but I still feel all the same anger and resentment towards him and cannot see a way forwards with him and I.

Do I have to accept a future where I just get these texts from my dad and have to respond with something equally bland, until the next week when we do all the same all over again or do I push back again and say to him..I've explained that I cant do this and I've already explained why. Not sure what to do. Any suggestions?

bland texts maybe all he knows how to do?
your poor mum, can you not speak to your sister directly about this? Why does your dad need to be in the middle. Maybe just pull away from them all?

@seabreeze18 can't speak to sister as we have had a rocky relationship ever since she got together with BIL. Haven't seen or spoken in over 2 years now. We only fall out if we do. Couldn't possibly see eye to eye with her now after the way she and BIL have treated Mum.

My poor mum indeed, she's just been treated lie rubbish by all of them for no reason.

Mmm that’s a difficult one op. And sadly it’s a good demonstration of how divorce can fracture a family if not handled well.

So sorry you are going through this with your dad op who sounds very macho and uncompromising.

Honestly, if you want to forge a new relationship with him, it’s not easy but I think both of you need to be prepared to start afresh and basically just deal with your own relationship between the two of you; irrespective of how his relationships are with other members of your family.

Keep it simple. Put bluntly, your dad’s relationship with your mum, and your sister’s relationship with your mum, are not relationships that you should be trying to control or police imho. That doesn’t mean you don’t speak up for your mum when you feel it’s appropriate, or that you are not allowed to have your own views on the subject, or that you are not allowed to say “I see it differently for x and y reasons” or “please don’t speak about my mum in that way in front of me” - you can draw boundaries there - but you need to allow your mum, who is an adult, to handle her own adult relationships.

I know this because I tried to protect my sister once from what I perceived to be bullying behaviour by my brother. My brother is not a bad person btw, just a little selfish and blinkered when it comes to others, and a bit of a taker. My sister on the other hand is unselfish to a fault. She finds it hard saying “no”.

What happened was, even though my intentions were good, my brother blew up at me bc he thought I was interfering in something that wasn’t my business, and he was right. And my sister thanked me for standing up for her but then went behind my back and agreed to what my brother had wanted in the first place, and I felt a bit let down and betrayed after taking a load of flak on her behalf. So the moral of the story is: don’t interfere unless you have been asked to do so.

No one is perfect. We all have our flaws. Your dad and your mum sound like they have very different personalities and they had their own reasons for splitting. Unfortunately the split continued on to you siblings and your parents allowed that to happen when they should not have done so. They should have worked together to parent you all and in a way that did not allow differing loyalties to develop between you.

In short: this situation is not your fault op and nor is it the fault of your sister, who obviously holds very different perspectives to your own. Your father may have been the one most at fault but it was both of your parents who allowed this situation to continue on to you siblings. It’s very sad that this is still affecting you negatively two decades on.

My advice would be to give up worrying about others and taking all of that burden of “saving” and “repairing” the family on your own shoulders. It’s not something within your control.

Just focus on your own relationship with your dad. And allow people to be whoever they are. He may be deeply flawed and it may be somewhat inane but he does keep texting you. That shows some connection at least. It’s now up to you to decide whether that’s enough for you or not. If he is a man who has the emotional literacy of a sledgehammer, that may be all he is capable of.

On the other hand, have you tried anything new like saying “dad I will be at this pup at lunchtime on such a day, can you join me?” Or do something you both enjoy together like fishing or car boot sales or???? And while there you could say, “dad this has been nice, can you come to do x near me next time?”. Keep it low key at first and just focus on your connection and on this one thing you do together. That is, if you want a deeper connection with him.

But he prepared to learn that he may be someone who can only be in relationships on his terms. And if sadly that is the case and he can’t compromise; be prepared to lay down your own boundaries (a boundary being about what is acceptable to you and is not really about the other person). You may decide that a few texts every so often just isn’t enough and you can decide to go nc altogether. But it feels maybe like you still care too much at this stage to do that now straightaway without giving it another chance?

Good luck and sorry for essay!

@weftaway768 that is amazing advice. Thank you so much for giving me so much to think about. Really kind of you.

My pleasure Spring740 I hope the situation improves for you in the way you want! It all sounds v stressful, especially when it’s gone on for so long. Your mum sounds really lovely but you deserve some time without the baggage of your parents divorce hanging over you. Also, speaking as someone who is quite old, your parents should be considering the future, when they are no longer around, and your relationship with your sister might

become more important.

OP there’s a lot going on . Families!
You can’t control anyones actions but your own . What do you want ?
You have a close and loving relationship with your mum. Sadly you can’t change the past or your sisters choice of partner. Just continue to be there for your mum and do things that make you both happy.

Do you want a relationship with your sister? Her partner is a big red toxic flag but that’s her problem not yours. I would steer clear & let her deal with him. You don’t need the drama.

Do you want a relationship with your Dad ? If yes decide what you want. If the texts annoy you meet up and tell him. Be honest. You are an adult not a child you have choices.

This drama is not yours to solve. Stay close to your mum and enjoy your time together. But don’t let the weight of others dysfunctional behaviour grind you down . Practice stepping away from drama x

Thank you very much @Pumpkinpie1 . Lots to think about there.

@Weftaway768 the divorce has certainly hung over us all for what feels like a million years. My mum wanted so much to parent us in an amicable way, it's been my dad who has not been willing to do the same. He will not even acknowledge her in company, and has to be forced to even say hello. Mum simply cannot win.

it sounds OP that you have your answer . Your dad causes more pain than happiness, is it the child in you that still seeks his approval ? It’s not in your power to suddenly make him behave in an reasonable way towards your mum.

Realising that is hard.

I have a complicated relationship with my dad. I have chosen to keep in touch because I recognised it would cause me more pain to go nc. We talk every couple of months & I haven’t seen him since covid. For me this is enough. If he tries to reinvent the past I tell him. It sort of works.

You have choices OP.
But you can only deal with your issues no one else’s.

Focus on the relationships that give you joy and distance yourself from the toxic. Maybe one day your sister will recognise she’s being manipulated but that’s not in your control.

@Pumpkinpie1 whilst it feels really really wrong to be NC with my own dad and I miss the relationship we used to have, I just can't take the stilted nature of the text relationship.. not giving any details of his life, never arranging to see me, just saying hi, bye, hi, bye sort of thing etc. Plus, on the odd occasion, I do see him now, there's so many areas of conversation that are avoided that it is just seems a real waste of time. I don't feel I can trust him anymore e.g I don't know if what I tell him goes back to my sister and may then be used against my mum, I don't know if he's going to continue to try and use me to find things out about my mum etc etc. It's very sad because we used to have such a bond, but the 3 months we went NC last year, he got on with his life and I with mine, so I guess that tells you everything about where things ate at really. The only reason I saw him in December is because I contacted him to arrange to tell him I'm pregnant.
I have so much anger and resentment towards him, have started writing it down to release it and hopefully that'll help me a bit.