Had a fight with DH and feel so down

[DodoTired]

NC for this. We have two young kids with DH, 4yo DD and 6m DD, we both early 40ies. We are now on holiday in a European city and had a fight last night and I just feel so down after it. Fight is sort of about stupid superficial stuff on the surface but also about personality clash so not really superficial.

Before we had kids we literally fought maybe once or twice a year.

Then we had a DD… lots more fights, and I am so tired. I don’t know if it’s only my fault, or what, but I just feel so unloved and exhausted. On top of that eldest DD is a total daddy’s girl so it is making it worse a bit for me :(

We do probably have different personalities, and family inherited arguing styles - I’m not British and VERY straightforward plus more irritable/reactive, in our family it was very “italian style” fighting (like it is portrayed in the movies, not trying to be racist), in his house it is very “British” without often saying what the problem is (or whether it is at all, you have to guess sometimes wth is going on) and some passive aggressiveness around it. With DH we rarely shout at each other when we fight (not like in my family!), but certainly there is irritated tone etc.

Anyway, we were out for a long walk at his initiative, which noone wanted but we sort of went along with, every one was tired, I interjected about route back home that I wanted a short familiar route home, he didn’t like that, then he didn’t like my tone as it was irritable, then it was fine while we were walking home (I was knackered for some reason, baby fussing etc) but sort of exploded when we got back to the apartment. Well, he shouted something, then we both shut up and argued over Whatsapp so kids couldn’t hear.

we talked today, he said he doesn’t like how I talk to him, it’s disrespectful etc. Maybe it is. But I really do try to the point of sometimes Im not sure how to talk to him anymore. I certainly can’t turn into his placid mom though who serenely ignores PIL’s even batshit suggestions or solo ventures and just rolls her eyes letting him do her own thing. (In our family it was always a general discussion but my mum basically ruled)

Overall. He is a very nice, good guy, pulls his weight at home, at work etc.

But I just feel that we aren’t working together anymore, and I feel lonely, sad and like I am just shit :( But also am I now doomed to life feeling like shit unless I change my whole personality, or should I have found someone who loves the real me?

not sure what Im asking here, right now don’t really have anyone to complain to- don’t want to vent to my mum obviously or to UK friends as it’s a bit disrespectful and also a bit difficult to vent while on holiday.

Do people have these fights when they have young kids and stay
together and get happy after? Or is it the beginning of a long road to divorce for us? :( I just don’t feel he really appreciates me or loves me, because we are so different:(

You may get some LTB comments OP. But personally I think YES it's completely normal for couples who basically love each other and get on well to have lots of stupid arguments when they have very young DC and are feeling sleep deprived and resentful, it does NOT mean your marriage is doomed and it is likely to all be ok in a few years. That's my experience anyway.

It sounds like mainly a communication problem. DH and I went on a marriage course that really improved our communication.

Sorry this is no help but I'm trying to imagine having a fight over WhatsApp 😀

Thank you so much. I definitely don’t think he is the B in “LTB” - he is obviously not perfect and has his flaws like every human but definitely a good person. I am worried though that resentment keeps building up on
both sides and we stop respecting each other so it is difficult to
undo later on :(

i was thinking of marriage counselling but it is time and money consuming (and even finding a good therapist for both to get along with is a major task). Can you recommend a marriage course that helped you? Maybe that would be easier to arrange…

Dh and I argued a lot when dc were little. A lot. I think it’s just a really exhausting time to be honest. But I also knew - especially in my case as I’d been married before - that what we had was fundamentally good and a lot of it was just our exhaustion and frustrations with things. What exactly is going on between you? Maybe you just need to try and communicate more. Really openly with each other. If you can do that it may not all be lost.

Sorry forgot to quote you!

City holidays and walks are not a young children thing to do, it sounds more as if compromising was made (by you) before kids that isn’t happening now.

“But personally I think YES it's completely normal for couples who basically love each other and get on well to have lots of stupid arguments when they have very young DC and are feeling sleep deprived and resentful, it does NOT mean your marriage is doomed and it is likely to all be ok in a few years. That's my experience anyway.

It sounds like mainly a communication problem. DH and I went on a marriage course that really improved our communication.”

This with absolute bells on. We were amongst the last in our group to have children so were forewarned that in the early years we were likely to spend a great deal of the time very irritated with each other because we were exhausted, stressed with the responsibilities and taking this out on each other. I remember going round a funfair when our children about 2 and 4 and being struck by how many of the parents (including us) were bickering or looking thoroughly fed up. Cut each other some slack. Remove blame. Don’t allow irritation to become your default position with each other. You’ll get there.

My DH and I are like you and your DH.

In my family everyone is explosive and vocal in rows and no one is ever unsure what the issue is.

In DHs family, there's a lot of silence/stonewalling and dancing round the issue and building of resentment.

We rarely argue but if we do, he feels like I have a disrespectful tone and doesn't like how I communicate issues to him and how i blow up.

I do try to keep a level tone etc, but now and again it just comes out. If I really think I've been out of order, I apologise but if I think he's being oversensitive, I tell him that too. And I don't apologise if I don't feel like I'm in the wrong, I just say "I think you're taking offence at nothing and I'm not apologising, so you'll just have to like it or lump it". But 95% of the time I KNOW my tone was uncalled for so I will apologise.

I think just do some soul searching and see if you need to apologise. But keep your lines of communication open.

I agree this isn't automatically a marriage ending situation, but if I were you, I would ask myself one thing: he accuses you of being disrespectful to him. Do you, hand on heart, feel he is respectful to you? Because my husband used that accusation as a way of saying 'do as you are told, stay in your box', j. If that is how it feels to you, you've got an uphill battle on your hands.

So he is over sensitive to your tone. It' impossible to say, from what you are writing, whether or tone is genuinely just mildly irritable, or actually very rude and disrespectful. But it is true that some people find even mildly irritable very difficult to cope with. So it might be that this is something you need to work on.

Having said that, what effort is he making? Because, if I'm away in another city with a 4 year old and a 6 month old, probably not sleeping much, everyone unsettled, I'd be pretty irritable if we were all forced off to do a long walk that no one except DH wanted to do. So from my perspective it sounds like whether or not your tone is appropriate or not, it's coming out because you're so frustrated and you're not listened to unless you're angry.

I really hope this is just normal stress that comes with life with small children etc, but it also sounds like he's very quick to paint himself as the victim, even though the reason you're frustrated in the first place is because of HIS behaviour. And that IS worrying.

Oh yes. Madly in love with dh. 2 small children (3 and 6 months). Both knackered all the time. I know the WhatsApp argument very well. It will pass! X

I just think you're ambitious to take w small children to a European city for a holiday.

When the children are little, holidays are just the same as being at home.but with fewer comforts. Throw in the hassle of flights, getting lost and the absence of home comforts and its no wonder you get stressed.

OK, if you go somewhere very relaxed like Fiji and have childcare, yes it's a holiday. But I think maybe it's a bit ambitious to haul everyone to a city break. You're going to be tired, it costs a lot, and it's just so different than without kids.

What would be actual fun and relaxing for you?

Another one here to say this is completely normal and salvageable. I don’t even think you really need to do anything tbh, it will get better with time, rest and sleep.

It’s normal for anyone with a young baby from about 4 months old.

Try both reading the book how not to hate your husband after kids.

I think this is definitely something you can work through and is probably more common than you realise - having such different communication/conflict resolution styles.

I'm just like you - very direct and my parents would have a heated argument for 15 mins, get it over with and move on. I didn't grow up British have spent 20 years here now so am aware of the more passive style you describe. My DP is English and my god the passive aggressiveness, stewing for stuff over days, fear of any open conflict - like his family. We do clash over this and have had to find ways to compromise. I told DP early on I didn't like spending days feeling angry miserable when we could just resolve it by communicating early on. So he compromised by learning to be more direct, and I compromised by allowing him more space/time to mull over things and not forcing an immediate response. In the early days I told him if he wanted someone more like him he was free to leave, but of course he enjoys the fact I am equally direct with my affection, compliments, attention and he never has to guess what I'm thinking or walk on egg shells.

He is very sensitive despite the stoic exterior which I have learnt to be considerate of. And we will still clash when he finds my tone harsh/irritable etc, but we try to not let it escalate. We don't have kids so I imagine it will be tougher then but I think it's important to build time for intimacy/date nights etc if you can get childcare. What happens is you have an argument, you're both wounded, then tentatively make up but the hurt remains and then it explodes again the next time something minor happens. So you have to break the circle and make sure you clear the air properly before just getting back to the daily grind.

Counselling I'm sure will help but it is really hard to find someone you connect with/who you can work with. And expensive. So we just read stuff online to help us through - like on the Relate website and some other things.

It's only unsalvageable if there's no more love. But make the time to communicate honestly about how you're feeling (without blaming him) and what you'd like from him - solutions rather than complaints. Good luck!

Do you speak to him disrespectfully? That's something I can't stand in a relationship. I am an equal. I am not there to be spoken to like shit because someone else is in a mood.

Nothing rings alarm bells for me more quickly than a man who says his wife or partner is "disrespectful". The connotations of adult-to-child attitude in that is significant. I would only use the word, "disrespectful" when referring to a child's behaviour.

It sounds like you're reactive and he doesn't like that. Fair enough, lots of people don't. BUT, what exactly is he expecting from you? You suggested a shorter/easier route home with two young children, which he didn't want to do, and then your tone was "disrespectful"? If you think that your word is law, and you use anger to force him do what you want, then that is not good. But it sounds more like you get angry because you're doing what HE wants first.

Why do you feel "unloved"? What else does he do that makes you feel this way?

Hi OP, this is the course we did. It has a religious element so it's not for everyone, but we found it really helpful (and yes, cheaper than counselling).

https://themarriagecourse.org/about

Thank you so much everyone for your responses and for some kind/reassuring words!!!

i’ve read through everything, will respond with a bit more detail when I get more time (as we are still here and only going back to UK in the next couple of days). I’ve cheered up a bit as well and we may have a more production discussion with him later… we did a shorter venture out today which was much nicer - so he does take feedback onboard even though not formally acknowledges the fact.

in terms of European holiday - it’s a bit of a red herring, as in, it’s a bit tiring but its a tag on to a trip visiting family + we have my mum with us in the airbnb helping out so it is not THAT bad and not what the issue is. It’s not the first time we have this argument and it could have totally happened at home eg at a long walk in the zoo or whatever!

About fights: if I’m honest there is a variety of situations - sometimes it is (was) definitely me just being grumpy and taking this out on him (I have drastically cut this though, I realise it is bad, although difficult to break this habit).
Sometimes however its him being oversensitive or just irritable (from tiredness) and then taking it the wrong way. I also do believe there are some “sensitive male ego” moments (ie the problem is not my tone but contents of my response - say I disagree with his suggestion and he’s stubborn - well we both are) but this doesn’t go well when I call this out in these words 🤣 I do though push back when I think his issue is the content itself.

It's interesting you make the tone/content distinction. I am/was very similar to your H in this - different cultures, different styles of speaking and dispute resolution, and it is extremely difficult and leads to a lot of arguments, particularly post kids (our children are pretty much identical to yours). What has helped me a little bit is making an effort to never react to the tone of anything DW says, only the content, and in return she makes as much of an effort as possible not to raise her voice as she knows it triggers me. Maybe you could come up with some sort of trade like this, to show the other one that you're both trying to keep your side of the street swept?

I think your marriage is absolutely capable of making it, but you definitely need help. If I were you, I would be telling my husband that I love him deeply, but we need help with learning how to communicate and disagree effectively. Relationship counseling is needed, ASAP.