Parenting after a split - am I wrong or is ex-P?

[SarahAndQuack]

My ex-partner and I split up recently. Our 6-year-old DD spends 50% of her time with each of us. While we were splitting up, we formally agreed (amongst other things) that we'd facilitate a couple of DD's pre-exisiting activities. Before the split, DP and I were both active churchgoers, and DP used to be on the rota to help out at Beavers every few weeks. We also agreed we'd respect each other's time with DD and not put her in the middle. Finally, we agreed that we'd communicate about admin/organisation by text, phone or email.

My understanding was that this meant ex-DP and I would take turns to take DD to church - or, I guess, that we'd all end up there independently, but with DD basically under the wings of whichever parent brought her. I also figured that if DP helped at Beaver it'd be done in such a way that I wasn't sidelined/expected to wait late. Or, that the days DD was with me would simply be added to the days ex-DP wasn't available to be a parent helper.

None of this has happened, but I can't tell whether I was way out in expecting it to. What's tipped me over the edge today was that, yet again, I had just got in from work (I work outside and it's not been above zero all day), and had got into a hot bath. I heard someone knock on the door and ignored it. I'd left the key in the lock, and I heard someone trying to push it back out from the outside with theirs. It turned out it was ex-P, hammering on the door, with DD in tow ... because DD may (or may not - school haven't yet confirmed) need a pair of PE shoes by Friday morning. The worst of it is, Ex-P knows I would be available tomorrow (and indeed Friday morning before school) to sort this out.

I feel as if ex-P thinks the 'fun' bits of parenting are up for grabs, whereas the admin is still firmly my job.

I'm a bit confused! Who has DD which days for 50/50?

What happens at beavers?

What happens at church?

So he has a key to what is your house or is it the house where you previously both lived?

If it has been agreed he now lives elsewhere and he doesn't own any part of the house any more/isn't on the tenancy then you can stop him coming in.

If he is on the tenancy and/or owns the house you can't.

Very confused by this.

My understanding was that this meant ex-DP and I would take turns to take DD to church
What's currently happening and what do you want to happen?

I also figured that if DP helped at Beaver it'd be done in such a way that I wasn't sidelined/expected to wait late. Or, that the days DD was with me would simply be added to the days ex-DP wasn't available to be a parent helper.

What's happening here? Sometimes he's put down as a helper at beavers but he's not supposed to have your DD that day and takes her anyway?

As for the shoes have you always been the one who buys the PE shoes etc? If so maybe he didn't feel confident making the purchase. Personally I would have rathered do that myself, but not sure why he felt the need to barge into your house like it was an emergency. The normal thing to do would be to buy them or else text/call and ask you about them.

Do you think he may have went into your house for a different reason?

I also could not make head nor tail of this. In particular I don’t understand the bit about church or Beavers, I don’t understand what you thought would happen and I also don’t understand what does happen that is not to your liking.

Regarding the last bit, your ex shouldn’t have a key any more. But he was trying to sort something practical out and then you complain that he does the fun things and you have to do the admin. I’m lost.

I found your arrangements/expectations really hard to follow. Which is a sign they are just too complicated.

He can take his daughter to activities when he has access, and you when you're with her. You also can't dictate what your ex does with dd when he has her. This is his personal decision, as is yours. I really think your expectations sound too high and unreasonable.

If his name is on the mortgage and I assume it is, he can enter his home legally. To prevent this, you'd need to sell up and get your own place unless you have a legal document stating otherwise for any reason we're unawar of.

I hope that makes sense, you can't actually expect anything of him in his own time, nor can he of you.

I’m a bit confused too, however on the subject of the PE kit and similar myself and my ex share these as a) one pair is really all they need and b) often they get transferred from one house to another anyway (e.g. drop off on a PE day with them and they get picked up by my ex).

What we did was set up a system where certain things got ferried over with the child as and when required. We’re also amicable enough to “call in” a bundle of x or y if we find out we’re running short (chances are my ex will be short of something I’ve accumulated in turn and be happy to do a swap - again, particularly happens with school kit/casual clothes if one always gets the kit to put in the laundry on a Friday and the other is sending them to school on Mondays).

This all happened through trial and error though - when it was as recent as it is for you, both us had moments like your ex-husband about things we hadn’t clocked. However, it’s true he shouldn’t be barging in, though again if he was desperate, it was in your child’s interest and given the split is recent he may have not thought things through.

I read it as him bringing your daughter back early for her kit when it could have been sorted the following day when he was presumably meant to bring her back, is that right?

The part about men thinking their 50% include just the fun bits - is typical.

I’d keep a record of his breaking 50/50 arrangement and when there is enough - would suggest changing it to something that works better.

And - change the lock!

I can’t fathom any of this, so it’s really not surprising that there seems to have been a
misunderstanding between you and your ex.

Am I reading this right?

Church, you thought DD would be going each week with whichever parent had care. But the other parent isn't going/taking her now you've split. Is that right? If so, that's their choice.

Beavers, the other parent is a helper at beavers. You thought they would only help out on days they have care of your child and they wouldn't help out on days when you have care. Sorry but that's ridiculous. You're expecting them to let all the kids and leaders down to avoid seeing their child on your time.

The key, trying to let themselves into your house is not ok.

Maybe OP can confirm however I read it differently from her saying he knows she would be available tomorrow morning to sort it out - ie. she resented having her bath/free time interrupted by her husband barging in with her DC in tow, to pick up the shoes when he could have come over the next day instead when he knew she would definitely be free.

Re. the PE kit... I wouldn't get too annoyed about that. Ex and I are frequently dropping round each others houses to pick up or drop off various kit for school or clubs. Unless you have two of everything it's inevitable.

I'm not sure I understand the issue with church or beavers. In what way has this not turned out as planned?

Ex and I have a similar agreement but I'll often find myself stood next to him at the side of a football pitch as we both want to support DS's clubs. Whoever takes DS home has to wash the muddy kit...

I do think that mothers often continue all the child's admin after a split. I deal with all the school admin but ex picks up the football admin. I basically told him he had to share the load.

Sorry! I obviously wrote a really unclear post. I was trying really hard to keep it short.

@YearofDNGAF - we each have DD 50% of the time on a 2-2-3 pattern (which is what was recommended to us for her age), and which means we each have her every other weekend, with varying days across the week. On Sundays, we usually go to church, and I assumed this would mean the parent whose weekend it was would take DD, and the other parent might or might not come (we don't go every week), but they would be, if you like, another person there. Likewise, when DD goes to Beavers, I figured that if it was my day, ex-DP would probably either choose not to help out on that day, or would ensure that I got to treat it like a normal Beavers and do pick up and drop off as usual. Instead, what happens is that I'll go to church or Beavers with DD, and as soon as we're in the building, ex-DP thinks it's an extension of their time with DD, and I need to take a backseat. After Beavers I ended up waiting while ex-DP did the clean up with DD in tow, for example.

@Octavia64 - yes, she's got a key; I don't think it's stupid for her to have one (I have one for her house too), but I was expecting it to be like a key left with neighbours - you would never let yourself in unasked.

@kkloo - with Beavers, there's a rota for parents who want to help. You put down which days you're not available, and they work it out. I just assumed the 'not available' days would include those when DD was with me - though, TBF, I suppose if DP wants to do it when not taking DD, that's fine, just a bit unusual as most people do it because they're taking a child there. What I don't think is ok is DP assuming that if she's doing Beavers, it means I have to wait around later than everyone else picking up because she's doing the 'helper' tidy up, and won't let DD out with everyone else.

With the shoes - no, I didn't buy them, and that's not the issue: we agreed to make sure we'd swap items of clothing as needed, and the only reason I'd not sent DD off to DP with them was that it's been snowy all week, and I was waiting to hear from school whether or not she needed wellies instead. But there was lots of time for this to be sorted out - DD wouldn't have needed the shoes until tomorrow morning, so banging on my door and trying to get felt really unnecessary. I don't think ex-DP is being deliberately malicious or trying to come in for some other reason, but I also think there's an attitude that I ought to be permanently available at DP's convenience.

@Westsussex - sorry I made it sound complicated! It isn't - it's a standard 2-2-3 pattern, which is what's recommended at her age. I just didn't explain well.

I'd be totally happy for DP to take DD to activities whenever DD is with her, of course. I just don't feel very comfortable with DP muscling in on things when DD is with me.

@TossACoinToYerWitcher - YY, that's what we agreed to do! Your post makes me feel hopeful these are really just teething difficulties and I shouldn't worry too much.

@Hellsmells - no, they didn't need to come back. A text would have been fine, any time before tomorrow morning (so, when this happened yesterday, a text saying DD needed her shoes by Friday morning). If I'd had a text, I would have been able to explain that I'd not sent DD's shoes with her because I had just asked school if wellies would be wanted instead. And I could have met her at the school gate with wellies or shoes, as required, either this morning or tomorrow morning. There was no urgent need to bang on the door or try to get in.

@MrTiddlesTheCat - no, the issue is that DP takes DD to church on some of her Sundays. But on my Sundays, she turns up at church, picks up DD, and takes on the role of parent-in-charge (usually telling me I've done something wrong or encouraging DD to do things I wouldn't let her do).

I wouldn't mind DP helping at Beavers on days when I have DD - I was a bit surprised as most parents do it when they have their children with them, and it's a fairly infrequent rota - but I don't think that should mean ex-DP can expect me to sit around waiting for DD. Surely, it'd be ok to send DD out with the other kids at finish time?

@TossACoinToYerWitcher - that was exactly it - I was really cross that I was in the bath, and a simple text saying 'please let's swap DD's shoes before Friday' would have been so easy. So far, when DP has had DD's gear, I've either made do or I've sent a message in good time so we can do a swap that's easy for everyone.

I think that's everything ... I'm so sorry it was a confusing post. I find once I start writing I can't figure out what is important and what isn't, so I cut it down to as short as I could manage!

@TossACoinToYerWitcher

Amicable enough? What does that mean?
Your previous posts imply a different story? No?

@SarahAndQuack thanks for explaining, I get it now.

If you think ex dp is not doing these things intentionally, maybe it would be best to think about the things that are a big deal and request them?

E.g. Please don't use the key unless you've spoken and agreed about it beforehand

If the agreement is you send what your dd needs then why didn't you send the pe shoes with her? You didn't need to wait for school to confirm, you could have just sent the shoes. You've then forced your ex to have to sort out either picking them up or finding an alternative.

As to beavers, its nothing to do with you if your ex volunteers on your days. And when you are picking up just go in and get your child if waiting 5 mins bothers you that much.

The thing I will say is you can't expect DD to treat the other parent as "just another person" in the congregation or at beavers if it's not the other parents time. DD won't get that and will want to see her other parent.

church, for now, I'd miss a few Sundays for now, when you have DD. It might break the thing that's happening right now.

Amicable enough when it comes to the kids. I’ve accepted I’ll never be good friends with my ex, that there will always be unresolved bad blood between us and that I could trust them when it comes to personal relationships as far as I could throw them - however, I don’t need any of those things to still essentially do business with them. Neither of us are interested in letting our own grievances interfere with doing what’s needed for the kids.

Thanks for replies! Sorry to have been slow responding.

@YearofDNGAF - I don't think most of it is unintentional! I'm struggling not to see it as rude/aggressive, and I think my post was confusing because I was trying to present it very neutrally (and instead just didn't give enough detail).

@Ghentsummer - absolutely I should have just sent the shoes. But, I don't understand why my ex thought a good response was hammering on the door, rather than just texting to say 'DD needs her shoes, can you sort it out'. There have been various occasions where one or other of us hasn't sent enough kit with DD on the day - it's no big deal - but so far, it's all been peacefully resolved with a quick text. With this one, I don't think DP was deliberately being aggressive - but, I wouldn't dream of going to her new house and bashing on the door. I would text or phone.

As for Beavers - parents don't go in to pick up; children are sent out. If it'd been a five minute wait, I would still be a bit fed up as it's freezing and no one wants to stand around outside, but it wasn't five minutes.

@ZeroFucksGivenToday - well, I think you're right! I don't think it's fair on DD for us both to be there - at least not at this stage, when it's all new to her. I have already tried not going to church. When we were still living together but had agreed to split, I suggested to DP that we could take turns to go to church with DD. Her position was that she was going; she was taking DD; I could go (or not) if I liked, but there was no way she'd consider not going. I did tell her I felt this meant I was effectively unable to go, so my understanding was that once we'd split up and moved over to having specific days with DD, was that we would be taking turns. The first Sunday I had DD, I showed up to church with her, sat down, service started, and ex-P turned up, shoved past me into the pew, and sat DD onto her lap. DD was delighted and thought we were getting back together. I emailed ex-P to explain, but she just doesn't think it's an issue and says she will keep going to church, and it's up to me whether I come or not or bring DD or not. So for a while I tried not going - or going to a different church where we don't know anyone - but whenever I've tried going back to our church, she will always show up late (so we've sat down), and physically pick up DD to put her on her lap. Every time, DD clearly thinks it's an opportunity to get us back together, and I feel as if my time with DD is being intruded on.

TBH I think this is why the thing with Beavers bothers me. It probably shouldn't in itself - and I get that it is lovely that ex-P is volunteering time. I just feel as if there's a deliberate intention to muscle in on my time.

I am guessing your exP’s behaviour - thinking about her needs only - is part of a reason you and her split up.
You can’t change her. You can only try to make it harder for her to step all over you.

Take away her keys. She does not need to have them. Do not take DD to Beavers on your watch, or take her to some activity in a different church.

You are in the early stages of separation. Both are still getting used to the new routine and dealing with not seeing your child all the time. It’s tough.
It does get better with time. You will develop more of separate routines.

Thanks, @jsku, yes, that's exactly how it is.

The issue with Beavers is that DD absolutely adores it, and (stupidly) in our pre-separation agreements, ex-P and I both agreed to support her doing it. It didn't occur to me it'd be something that'd cause issues like this.

With church it's a real wrench - it's a lovely community of people and I really feel miserable at not seeing them. But I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion I may need to just accept it's a casualty of the split, as you're not the only person who's said this (friends of mine gently suggested I might need to just cut my losses and find another church).

I'm really clinging on to what you say about it being early days - and that it'll get easier. I appreciate that.

@SarahAndQuack

The pre-separation agreement you have about DD will undergo many iterations. Unless it is court mandated - either of you can change and add to it.

There are clearly things that do not work for you. You seem somewhat scared to speak up for yourself - probably due to the dynamics you had back when you were a couple.

You are free of her now - you can change the balance of ‘power’ in this.

In your place - i’d spell out and communicate the main issues you mention here. And tell her that she needs to respect your time with DD - not sit next to you/pick her up; not delay her after Beavers.
I’d also say that it’s not sustainable as it is now and you’ll be switching congregations if it continues.
And see what she says.

If she gets defensive, instead of showing sje has heard you - than there ow only one path forward.

I did email after the first church service when she turned up, which I found really upsetting and DD confusing; ex-P simply insists I'm being weird; DD isn't confused or upset; there is no reason for her to change her behaviour. I don't think I'm on a hiding to anything. It's just incredibly hard to figure out what would be the 'normal' response. I don't actually know how I'd have written a sufficiently informative-but-neutral thread to figure that out, either!

But we'll get there. Thank you so much for replying. It's good to be able to figure things out out loud (if you know what I mean).