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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Where do you start unravelling a life?

22 replies

noideaoffuturenow · 14/01/2024 14:58

Don't really know who will read this gloomy monologue, but I could do with some perspective. I'm very unhappy. Can't actually remember the last time I laughed, or looked forward to something....yet from the outside I'm guessing I look like I live a great life and I'm sure even my closest friends have no idea how I really am...And whilst I know this will post a negative picture of my DH, he's not a bad guy. Just not a great team player or what I want as a husband and dad.

Married 22 years. Have known for a very long time that we are heading down a slippery slope towards divorce. I have been unfulfilled for years. Definitely worse since DS with all his challenges came along 10 years ago. I guess I've felt very alone with all of that. I have tried everything within my own power to change what I can in case it was a 'me' issue-hobbies/changed job/left work/studied/got new friends/met up with old friends/avoided people/family who may have been bringing me down. Everything except medication for depression-because I don't think I'm depressed. I think I'm in a unsatisfactory relationship.

I have communicated this-I'm very resentful of what I've seen as my DH shirking family life in our 18 years of parenting, using work as an excuse to do what he wanted, when he wanted including things I didn't want him to do. His hobby and work are closely interlinked and I do feel he has always exploited this. I feel very lonely and and feel like he speaks to me and treats me like a child. We don't talk or connect with any depth of feeling. Which of course, is telling in my relationship with my husband both physical and emotional. Recently I've hit a wall having an intimate relationship with someone I'm not sure I even like anymore.

There was an incident this morning where I had dropped £60 in my car and he found it; in telling me the tone and words implied I had been stupid and in future I needed to put my £ in a purse as this was the second time it had happened. When something like this happens, his demeanour changes. His face hardens, his stance becomes aggressive and his tone is cold. I hate it. My son has told name that how his dad stands or moves when he's telling him off makes him feel like he's going to hit him. I don't feel like he's going to hit me, but I understand this and I have discussed this with DH who completely refuses to acknowledge any of it. It's always the other person's problem. As it happens- my mum had stuffed the £ in my pocket-I had no purse with me at the time and I didn't know how much she had put in my pocket. I thanked him and asked if he could possibly have used a nicer tone as it sounded like he was telling me off like a child, rather than being helpful. Cue anger, hostility and defensiveness. In my head I feel that 'normal' couples would not talk to one another like this. His response was 'Well you're not very nice to me'. Getting us nowhere.

We have a big family event coming up involving travel, and weeks of time with both sets of family. It needs a lot of planning and discussion and I am starting to feel like I won't be able to go as DH and I can't even have a civil conversation ATM. I feel like I could honestly run away, disappearing would be easier than having to deal with this trip. Writing this down I appear calm, and it is helping me I think, but honestly I feel like I'm teetering on the edge of a big crisis.

Dicussion/bringing it up and asking if we can sort it out gets me nowhere. We go round in circles covering the same ground. Was promised counselling months ago; he said he's sort. (An aside-I'm not convinced we. need counselling. We just need better communication-which I feel I'm better at. So essentially-i've told him the issues as I see Tham, he just needs to put in the work. Why will someone else telling him this make any difference???). No point in worrying about wasted money, though. He's done nothing about it. He's always 'too busy', when it comes to sorting anything out if he'd rather not do it. I'd prefer if he saw it like it is; he dosen't prioritise things the way I do. Me and the kids are just not his priority. He's actually done next to no work over Christmas whilst I worked as much as I could on my course/actual work. Including tidying up after him in a shared space he repeatedly messes up. So-he's had more hours to work on this than I've had and I'm pretty sure I've given it way more headspace.

He is so unreliable -things like he forgets to lock the house before bed. Never feeds the dog. Has forgotten to pick DS up from school. Is late for things with the kids on a regular basis. Doesn't pay Nursery fees. Thinks it's ok to feed kids lunch at 3.30 pm, or start cooking dinner at 7pm and cook something only one child will eat. If he's 'had' to pick someone up from somewhere/take them somewhere we'll all hear about how disrupted his day has been. Even if they have gone somewhere 'extra' like the shops through his own choice!

He travels a lot for work, never really catches up. His life is a crazy, messy whirlwind; physically and mentally. He makes plans, I work around them sort out kids by asking ppl for favours/school drops and his plans then change. Often at the last minute-he could plan to be away and not go. He could be away and not come home. I do see that his work lends itself to this-it's often weather and team dependant. He is messy/refuses to sort/organise/throw out and gets very tetchy when challenged about this-or anything TBH. His 'office' is so stuffed to the gills with things he can't actually move in it, or work in it. It's a fire hazard-I often lie awake at night worrying about all the plugs/leads/books/lamps left on.

Looking back, I have walked on eggshells all our married life, putting up with things I shouldn't have, letting things that annoyed me go and only really challenging him over the past few months. The atmosphere is awful now most of the time due to this. I feel like now I've opened Pandora's box, I can't close it again. I can't keep pretending anymore-I'm just juggling too much. He hates being criticised and is always defensive: will NEVER admit he's wrong/messy or might have an issue with something -(eg his timekeeping is awful but the kids and I all know not to bring it up despite them hating being late for events/school. He just CANNOT deal with being criticised). Yet he is super critical of them being untidy/late-especially our eldest daughter who I really feel he 'picks on'. His tone when speaking to her is just not pleasant.

Every discussion we try to have about making plans/tidying/sorting/ornasising-eg meals/holidays like I imagine other couples do, turns into an argument as he accuses me of being a nag/controlling/critical of him or expecting too much or going into too much detail.

He is a recent high earner. He 'manages' our finances. Which he states are a mess; too messy for me to understand or be able to help with. He doesn't want to worry me apparently. We have no mortgage, I have no idea about things like life insurance despite asking. He pays the bills, I have no idea how much our electricity costs, eg; but when I ask details, he won't properly answer me.If I want to see documents relating to our lives, he claims he can't find them in his office (probably true). I've offered to help with his office. No way. I've organised skips in the past to try to get rid of clutter which know he finds difficult. Didn't happen-he didn't have time while the skip was here. He puts money into my account rather than having a shared bank account for household expenses/kids clothes/hobbies which I feel is more transparent/clearcut. I'd love an organised household budget, a shared activity of meal plans and shopping. Always fantasised about this. An orabbised life where we can actually plan ahead. He just won't ever meet me there.

He's a very generous person on paper, but actually I feel like he's controlling over our finances and we could be on very shaky ground in reality, which scares me. I feel that he then uses the excuse that we have lots of debt (to his family-which I didn't want at the time) to have to work way more than everyone else and dodges any discussion on the topic when I say that I'm trying/working/can contribute-for what it's worth I'm a high NHS banded clinician. Not a rubbish salary by any means. It's all very vague and he won't be pinned down. Something I've just thought of-he is SUPER protective of his phone/passwords. I have NEVER been 'allowed' to handle or use his phone. He guards the Netflix PW with his life-our daughters have brought this up to me as being rather strange. In contrast-my kids all use my phone all the tme, use my PW now as theirs-so we can all access things for each other easily. We use this PW whilst using swimming lockers etc. So it's like a 'safe' number for them.

I do 99.9% everything for our 4 kids; school/exams/hobbbies/friends and they all rely on me emotionally for everything. He says that's normal for mums and kids-not unusual in general and I guess he's right there to an extent, but I wanted to bring our kids up as a team with shared values/hopes/efforts. Never had that, so they all gravitate to me for everything they need help with.

1 child has SN-DH has barely acknowledged this whilst I've had years of assessments/forms/communications with school and beyond. Years of tears/heartbreak trying to cope with the demands. It's pointless trying to talk to him about it. It's like he's made of stone, emotionless. I'm trying to make him understand and see our child as I do. He refuses to change his communication with this child or try to understand the difference in how our son sees the world and why he creates rows when he doesn't mean to. I actually feel like I need to protect our son from his dad; I feel like he's damaging him creating emotional trauma and I feel the urge to remove DS or that I should be around all the time in case there's an issue.

In general, I feel like I'm dragging DH through our life together, trying to make him see things the way they could be and how we could navigate all of this together. I'd describe his input as 'passive'. I get to crisis cyclically, I ask for help/support/tell him what needs done. He does it mechanically and that's it until we come full circle again and we're stuck at the same part of the cycle.

Historically, I have helped care for his parents while they were elderly/sick/dying/provided support and accommodation for his siblings when they visited. He is in touch with them-jokes/family group chats. But when there are actually plans being made/answers to specifics, they contact me. So he has no 'responsibility' for anyone day to day except for himself and work.
In contrast, I have a very large family with it's own current illness/support issues and lots of these family members lean on me a lot. I'm studying & working ATM. I have know where all the kids are and where they need to be and when-he needs reminded of every little thing regarding this even when he dose help. I have to remember it all and remind him. I have no regular downtime (he says he doesn't either-doesn't count watching the news/tv/snoozing on the sofa daily). I don't even have a regular lunch break at work. I have all the school/childcare/all of kids jobs/hobbies/friend issues/studying issues/multiple pets I walk/feed/clean up after. Wider family responsibilities. Things like school open nights when they happen. And the tremendous guilt when I don't manage to walk the dog or drop a ball or two. I'm overwhelmed and barely coping. I feel like I have so much on my plate and it should be our shared plate. I don't think I have the energy to deal with trying to make things better; I've taken time out from studying to write all this and am clock-watching.

I am SO resentful; it's eating me up and I just cannot go on like this. I know it's a classic case of 'First World Problems'. I know my life could be way worse. I know no-one has an answer, but I guess I feel like I need people to say 'yes-we would hate this life too'. I juts feel so guilty thinking that the only way I'll be happy is to live a separate life to my husband because that means disruption for 6 people...some of whom are oblivious to my unhappiness and will never necessarily understand. But I really can't go on. Can anyone relate to this and give me a hand-hold or an idea of where to start unpicking the mess?

OP posts:
Jacopo · 14/01/2024 15:11

He sounds awful. Can you begin to put together a plan to leave? There are plenty of mumsnetters who will be able to advise on the steps you need to take.
A journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step.

Watchkeys · 14/01/2024 15:17

The best way to support other people is to support yourself. You are responsible for your children, who will not benefit from you staying in an unhappy relationship, giving them an example that 'unfulfilled' is the way to live life.

Who are the other 2, when you say 'disruption for 6 people?' Are the other 2 you and your husband? Because if so, you want disruption, and he permanently and consistently disrupts you.

Leave!

Alphyn · 14/01/2024 15:23

That all sounds rather awful. He sounds very contemptuous of you, I don’t think this can be salvaged really. Your DC are not oblivious and it would be better for them to at least have part of the time away from your husband even if it means you are not around when they are with him, assuming shared custody.

First step is to think about finances. If the house is mortgage-free that is a good start. Also good that you are working. How financially dependent are you? It’s worrying that he’s hiding the state of your joint finances from you though.

Pinkbonbon · 14/01/2024 15:25

He makes your son feel like he might hit him, he talks to you 'aggressively' and he uses a horrible tone with your daughter. Honey you should gave left him years ago.

Its doing untold amounts of damage that you stay with him. It's telling your children 1. That this is normal man behaviour. 2. That you choose him over them. And 3. That we should tolerate abuse and stay with bullies.

I'm most worried for your daughter. She will end up thinking men should be bullies and pick an abusive partner. And stay just as her mum did.

Do whatever it takes to get away from him. If not for you, for your kids. They need to see someone say 'it's not ok to treat people tishis way. And if anyone does, we don't stay around trying to 'communicate' (pander to) we just RUN and never look back'.

You will never, never find the right words to make him a nice human being op. He will never understand your perspective and have empathy. Because he doesn't want to understand. He wants things his way.

Get out of there. Give your kids one safe home to be in where they can breathe. Away from him. Do the freedom programme online with your daughter. So that neither of you held up with abusers in future.

Stop waiting for the time. The time is now - give yourself permission to let him go. Escape the cage. Because your jailer will never give you the keys. Time to be your own hero amd save yourself.

Pinkbonbon · 14/01/2024 15:26

Don't go on the holiday. See a solicitor, get your ducks in order and leave and divorce him.

Hatty65 · 14/01/2024 15:28

I think your marriage sounds awful and is over.

I would honestly start by just going to a solicitor and filing for divorce. You aren't going to be able to start getting financial information together, etc by the sound of it, because he's controlling it and it is a mess.

You can't have a conversation with him, and there's not really anything to discuss. I would simply tell him that I no longer loved him and therefore the marriage was over and I was divorcing him. Don't get drawn into any conversations - anything he says I would simply answer with 'That's unfortunate if you feel like that. However, I am not prepared to carry on living with you'. Or something similar.

CatusFlatus · 14/01/2024 15:35

Hatty65 · 14/01/2024 15:28

I think your marriage sounds awful and is over.

I would honestly start by just going to a solicitor and filing for divorce. You aren't going to be able to start getting financial information together, etc by the sound of it, because he's controlling it and it is a mess.

You can't have a conversation with him, and there's not really anything to discuss. I would simply tell him that I no longer loved him and therefore the marriage was over and I was divorcing him. Don't get drawn into any conversations - anything he says I would simply answer with 'That's unfortunate if you feel like that. However, I am not prepared to carry on living with you'. Or something similar.

This is great advice.

Terrribletwos · 14/01/2024 15:37

Does your salary go into the account he has control over and doesn't let you see? You need to change that for starters.

coldcallerbaiter · 14/01/2024 15:38

Why are ppl saying that they should not sit down and discuss it? Crisis talks.

Most of it looks like you have too much on your plate with work and family.

He needs to do more for dc and the house. He needs to be told to do so and you will not, assign him tasks. Make this his regular timetable. You should not have looked after his elderly parents, that is his job. All his family arrangements and visits are his responsibility.

You do not need to split until you have had discussions. Show him this thread. You have nothing to lose.

Nestofwalnuts · 14/01/2024 15:38

You want someone to say: yes I would hate this life too? I will. I would HATE to be married to a man like that. I would feel exactly as you do. Worn out, profoundly unhappy, belittled, unloved, unprotected, unrespected, lonely.

DH and I have been together 30 years, with lots of rough patches, some lonely times, one SEN child who put a huge strain on our marriage. But there were always glimmers of light - affection, humour, happy plans. DH is autistic so he isn't the best at being emotionally supportive but he tries to be kind and helpful.

In your position I would divorce. You will find the relief and freedom will give you an energy and lightness. He'll probably be useless with the children and dog so assume this.

Can you open a bank account and start to put money aside in it to cover what you and your children will need in any interim period? And look for cheaper houses, in case you need to sell up to pay off what you owe his family.

Can you sit him down calmly and ask how he'd feel about divorce. Ask if he'd be happier and feel freer as he seems so disenchanted with you. Try to make it amicable and mutual, for the children's sake and your own.

Rocksonabeach · 14/01/2024 15:41

Pinkbonbon · 14/01/2024 15:26

Don't go on the holiday. See a solicitor, get your ducks in order and leave and divorce him.

This - it is financial abuse

Just divorce and make your own new life

CharmedCult · 14/01/2024 15:46

Your relationship sounds absolutely dreadful, really just dire.

If you’re looking for validation then yep, I would hate this life too.

First things first, can you sift through his office when’s he’s out of the house and get hold of any paperwork with regards finances, bank accounts, pensions, savings, life insurance, mortgage, etc?

maudelovesharold · 14/01/2024 15:53

Be blunt. Tell him that neither of you is making the other happy, or seem to be able to bring what you each need to the relationship, so you want a divorce. You need to do something dramatic to shake things up one way or the other, otherwise this will drag on and on. I know it’s easier. energy-wise, especially with dc, to stick with the status quo, but it’s making you so miserable that I hope you find the strength to change things, op. As a pp said, just take the first step…

FruitBowlCrazy · 14/01/2024 15:57

Just as well he didn't organise counselling. Going together would have just given him another stick to beat you with, as people like him are (bizarrely) able to hoodwink counsellors onto their side.

Book some counselling and go on your own. Don't tell him. I think that will be a massive eye-opener for you, and will give you the impetus you need to take the right decision for you.

ALunchbox · 14/01/2024 17:01

When you said you looked like you had a great life, I expected you to say you were unhappy but didn't know why as you objectively had a nice life. However this is not the case. You were clearly able to identify what the reason why. You need to remove the problem so to speak.

noideaoffuturenow · 14/01/2024 17:05

Thank you all....so my expectations are not too high. I'm not too sensitive. I'm not being too hard on him. I do deserve better. I do know all of this deep down. I am my mother's daughter, though-this is history repeating itself. But you are right; my son & my daughters deserve more. They deserve a stronger role model. And a happy, fulfilled mum. Not one who's permanently negative and just about coping. The 6 of us is the 4 children and two adults. The implications of me not just putting up with it will affect all of us; and cause a lot of pain.
There is no getting out of this holiday, unfortunately. There are too many people who will be let down.

OP posts:
Farmageddon · 14/01/2024 17:08

Jesus he sounds awful. I'm surprised you have stuck it for so long.

Don't go on the holiday - just say no. Get legal advice about divorcing, and tell them that he is cagey about finances, that way they can employ a forensic accountant to pick through the mess.

Start planning the rest of your life without this arsehole. Also, disrupting the lives of your children temporarily may be the best thing you do for them - it sounds like a very stressful chaotic life with him which they are currently stuck with. Divorce is not always the worst option - in your case it definitely isn't.

Pinkbonbon · 14/01/2024 17:15

'I'm sorry to let you down, but I'm divorcing my husband so don't want to go on holiday with him. I hope you understand'.

No sane person would have a problem with that.
It's OK to let people down when you have too much on your plate you know.

Your parents (assuming that's who is going) should have your back and if his parents aren't happy about it well, tough shit, they should have raised a decent son.

If you do go, you could book seperate accommodation for yourself perhaps and the kids could go back and fourth between the rooms. Jusy say you want a vacation thats also a vacation away from your husbands snoring or something. Then deal with the divorcing when you get back.

Watchkeys · 14/01/2024 17:18

How can you be 'too sensitive' without knowing how sensitive you should be? How sensitive do you think you should be, and what authority do you listen to with regard to setting that level?

Who decides what we 'deserve'? Why do you think you 'deserve' better?

The facts are that you are as sensitive as you are, and, if you respect yourself, you will respect that as part of yourself. If you think you deserve something different from what you have, you can seek it out or not; it will not be provided because you deserve it; it will be something that you make happen.

You are relying on external validation. Validate yourself. Start now: all your feelings are representative of who you are. Respect them. Live according to them. 'Happy' and 'contented' are feelings, after all, and that's all you want, isn't it? Feelings are the only thing we have. Stop dismissing and belittling yours.

Fernsfernsferns · 14/01/2024 17:26

noideaoffuturenow · 14/01/2024 17:05

Thank you all....so my expectations are not too high. I'm not too sensitive. I'm not being too hard on him. I do deserve better. I do know all of this deep down. I am my mother's daughter, though-this is history repeating itself. But you are right; my son & my daughters deserve more. They deserve a stronger role model. And a happy, fulfilled mum. Not one who's permanently negative and just about coping. The 6 of us is the 4 children and two adults. The implications of me not just putting up with it will affect all of us; and cause a lot of pain.
There is no getting out of this holiday, unfortunately. There are too many people who will be let down.

But staying causes a lot of pain too.

makes it more likely your children will also recreate the same shitty patterns.

so you need to change it.

’can’t get out of the holiday too many people will be let down’ sounds like classic people pleasing to me.

however you need to be strategic

maybe a big fight over the holiday isn’t worth it. If not, how can you mitigate things to get through it? Sounds like you are visiting family, can you engineer things so you spend quite a lot of time apart?

will he go off to do his hobby? If so calmly agree to that - I assume it’s easier without him?

make plans for the long term

can you look around his office while he’s at work to see what financial info you can find and start taking copies of (photographs)?

you need to meet some divorce lawyers

when you are ready to say you want to separate will he leave? If not what’s the plan? You need legal advice on this and perhaps also to consider your safety

wellhello24 · 14/01/2024 17:34

Financial, verbal, emotional & mental abuse. Trust me you’re doing you & your children a favour by ending your marriage to this utter pig.

Pumpkinpie1 · 14/01/2024 17:41

OP you have choices.
You are an articulate lady, with your own home, a job and children who arent little anymore.
Yet years of being emotionally and financially abused have you doubting yourself and your abilities . You have effectively been a single parent for years bringing up 4 children and one manipulative manchild.
A holiday with this man sounds like a terrible idea.
But staying home and using the time to get all your eggs in a row to leave him sounds like time well spent
You obviously care about your kids and yet you are bringing them up in this dysfunctional dystopian family which is unhealthy. Better the role model of a fierce independent single mum. Who won’t be treated like ……
See a solicitor and stop accepting his abuse

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