I've chosen shit men all my life ... Why?

[hirkle]

And what can I do to turn this around for once and for all.
I'm 49, divorced and have done lots of work on myself but I need clarity and objectivity , please and thank you.

I was listening to the radio and a woman had written to say this and that, but she said at the end "women choose the partner they feel they are worth" and this resonated with me.

That sounds horrible and very tough.
May I ask about the two whom you left broken hearted? Implicitly, it seems you might not have taken the ones who took you seriously as knowing the real you?
But, there are posters on here who will knoe better than me

It might be useful to read about attachment styles. I'm no psychologist but your relationship with your parents may impact your choices with men.

Don't be hard on yourself you have achieved alot- being there for your children, education etc..

Those two men whose hearts I broke were solid, educated, kind, great jobs , lovely family and friends but were 'boring' to me and I wasn't really attracted to them once the initial sparks faded . They were rigid and we didn't seem to share the same idea about enjoying ourselves.
On paper, they were perfect but I simply was not really attracted to them and eventually couldn't stand the idea of kissing them.
Interestingly I felt the exact same about both relationships being years apart

• despite being years apart ...

Therein lies your problem. Been there although mine lived to 80 and stopped drinking when I was a teenager, then his job was to be an enabler to his narcissistic wife.

You didn't suddenly, as an adult, become a person who attracted the "wrong" people. You weren't taught as a child to raise your bar. So you didn't have the red flags that you should have had. In a recently decent upbringing, children learn that they should avoid people who treat them with disrespect. In a dysfunctional household, e.g. affected by alcoholism*, this doesn't happen, leaving the child open to all sorts of abuse for the rest of their lives, unless somehow they realise what has happened and change the dynamic, mainly through educating themselves. It's tragic, so many years are stolen from so many innocent young people.

I think your issues didn't start with your first boyfriend. You need to look back further to see how you were trained to accept unacceptable behaviour. Once you are aware of how you allowed men to cross over boundaries that weren't comfortable, you can start to progress to being a you that accepts nothing less than being treated properly, respectfully, and with due care and attention. That is, what you deserve. It's not easy but worth it. Start with looking up for "recovering from narcissistic abuse"; that may not be the perfect search phrase for you but it will set you on a road where you can find yourself.

You might be interested in reading Women Who Love Too Much. It’s a bit dated now and some of the case studies are quite extreme but the message about how our start in life impacts our relationships is good. She talks a lot about adult women returning to the same types of relationships again and again believing they can ‘fix’ the men by loving them enough, and how this often springs from childhood issues.

I also think you are very hard on yourself.

If you do one thing, dump them sooner, at the first sign of them being shit.

Most of the men I see around me are essentially lazy. They will stay with a woman for sex until they have someone to jump to who is better at sex, richer, younger. So you need to kick them out faster. Don't let it drag on in the hope it might improve because it won't. People very seldom change.

Much better for you to take the initiative.

Because you don't value yourself enough. Deep down you don't think you deserve someone wonderful, so you accept sub standard men. But you do deserve a good man who will put you first and make you feel special and loved deeply. Why don't you believe it?

What sexism...

I must agree with the laziness . Each of those men thought they were a prize whereas in reality they were bums... gave little and took a lot.
Not one of them had announce of spontaneity , get up and all of them and all had to be asked to do the very basic stuff eg tidy up, organise a babysitter, change a bulb . They coasted through life essentially. Enabled by myself and kids.
I know that I am impatient in that way.

For example, not one of my family or friends spouses would pick up a basket of clean laundry when passing it as they go upstairs . They would walk around it, trip over it and one even complained it was on stairs. One left it there for two weeks as an experiment for herself. These are fu0" time working mothers and wives.
This is where in the past I absolutely lose my shit.
My exh once said to me that he could never do anything right in my eyes.
He was right. He couldn't.
Same exh left us without a shower, functioning toilet and a couple of very high up light bulbs that were broken .. for months... he was a plumber.

• an ounce !

That sounds absolutely appalling.
We know a couple in our social circle and we seem to be witnessing something similar. Frankly, we are not sure what to do for the best to get through to him or support her besides practical help.
Would you have advice for me at all?

My advice is to encourage any person going through that to speak to a therapist.
Mine told me that it was controlling behaviour. He knew we needed them, knew he could do them in his sleep , was asked hundreds of times, called me a nag blah blah.
She advised me to outsource the work but I was too afraid to. He had a terrible temper and I was always mindful of the kids overhearing anything .
He wouldn't allow me to outsource anything but wouldn't do it himself. We did without until his family were to visit. He did it very quickly when asked, then.

You're already making a lot more progress than my mother, I wouldn't worry too much. She divorced my violent unfaithful father at 50, decided some sleazeball of a married man was prince charming, but he started with his wife, and now that she's 75, she is married to a controlling, tight fisted, rude wanker.

To me it sounds like you think you can either change them or that they will change for you. That you allow the good / nice bits sway you and there’s a certain amount of ignoring the bad bits.

Compromise is important of course and no one is perfect, we all have our quirks and preferences and that doesn’t always mesh with our partners 100% but I suppose it’s about identifying deal breakers early and being secure enough to say thanks but no thanks.

I definitely think there’s time for a loving, secure and healthy relationship over 40, but I do think it’s a matter of watching out for those flags (not just “red flags” but flags that don’t suit YOU). If you find flags, don’t presume to be able to work around them, just end it and move on.

Agree with the poster who mentioned Women Who Love Too Much. I found it really helpful when my marriage ended last year.

Codependent no more is also really good, although I'm still working through that one.

Basically, you have grown up with an alcoholic and therefore probably somewhat dysfunctional father. Being blunt, the main male role model in life has been shit. So you will gravitate towards shit men because that's what you were taught in your childhood about men and relationships.

I grew up with a mother who had mental health problems. My childhood was 'good' to the outside but in reality chaotic. I was basically taught in childhood that the people who love you treat you like shit - unreliable, inconsistent, don't show much affection etc. So when I began my relationship with ex I ignored a lot of red flags and stayed in a shit relationship for longer than I should of because to me that crap behaviour was 'normal'.

Counselling also helped me.

I am staying single for a while now while I work out what I want and need from a relationship. I'm in a similar boat to you. I don't need a relationship but some company would be nice.

Thank you.
I think I will suggest the therapy to both of them.
I am the only one in the social circle still speaking to him and it is almost an agreement that one of us has to speak to him.
I certainly hope it is not as bad as what you describe. Thank you very much fo ryour help. I am sorry I can not offer any wise help to you.

So what can I do ? How does one try to ensure they raise their bar ?

this is just my humble opinion btw (same age as you and not dissimilar experiences )

step 1 do the reading and the work , between the books mentioned on this thread and the many bloggers out there (and yes on social media )

step 2 end any bad associations effective now

step 3 just be single , get yourself off that roundabout for a while

step 4 forgive yourself , you think you are the only person like this ? No . This is being human

i was horrified at these patterns for myself

but life has a way of working out and if someone amazing came along I’d be delighted
and if they don’t I’ll be just fine ✔️ for a while

I think much of it is luck really if you get a good one who has good relationship skills and is the type to be happy in and contribute to a good marriage. Prior to meeting my DH I dated about 9 guys, most of them would not have been good husbands and most of them are not married and single to this day they ranged from the downright abusive to the merely spineless and everything in between, one of them was a good man but just not right for me.

When I met my DH it was obvious immediately what a step up from previous men he was and I knew very quickly that I wanted to marry him so I did but even then I was lucky to meet him, lucky he turned out to be what he appeared to be and lucky that he also fell in love with me. If I hadn't met him there is a good change I'd have given things a go with someone less great and then who knows where I'd be now.

I won't say there is a shortage of good men in totality but I do think there is a shortage of good men who make good faithful husbands. Lots of men who aren't awful are still crumby partners to women. The men who do make good husbands tend to be help on to by the women who are lucky enough to meet them and so they are usually snapped you early and held on to leaving men with various issues on the markets.

Obviously good partner material men do become available sometimes but again they usually become taken pretty quickly and there are not enough to go round all the women who would make great wives.