Family dynamics & row. Exit strategy?

[Dustydoilies]

Sat here alone, cross, bewildered but not really feeling like I’ve done anything wrong other than assert myself.

Family dynamic is quite patriarchal, dad at head of the table etc. I have three siblings & long term difficult dynamics as most families have.

We mostly get along, can manage civil & to be honest I pick my battles because I don’t like confrontation but it can be very difficult to challenge unpleasant behaviour from siblings in front of parents as it is seen as upsetting a nice day. I have tried this in the past but this kind of back fired so I tried messages instead as they can be considered & hopefully resolve as adults rather than being seen as bickering children.

I am a single parent of an 11 yr old. My sister arranged to take him out across country but didn’t check with me. I sent a kind message to say can you check next time due to parenting arrangements etc.

My brother several years younger has a habit of ‘telling me off’ which I find rude. I sent him a message to ask him not to do this when he visits as it’s comes across as a bit patriarchal - I got no response.

Both siblings have brought these issues to my parents (70s) rather than responding to me which has kind of proved the point I was making and a massive drama has resulted. I’ve been accused of causing upset. I saw my sister today & enquired about her health, she avoided eye contact & gave a minimal response.

I asserted my boundaries with parents & was clear that the messages sent were kind but assertive. but it seems to have been implied that I’ve ruined Christmas or something.

So I’m sat here feeling like a big woolly black sheep thinking of how I can mend this, if I can mend it or is it my problem to mend it?

Im also in need of a bit of humour & comradeship from others that have ruined Christmas!

You havent ruined anything. Hold firm on your boundaries, if someone has a problem with you, they need to talk to you directly and not gossip/put pressure on you by talking about it with someone else. Its a perfectly reasonable expectation for adults. However if the pattern has been the gossip and ganging up dynamic for many years, it is going to take a while to break them of the habit..so take a deep breath and mentally prepare yourself to repeat your boundaries over and over again (like with a 2 yr old).

Mum and Dad, I dont want to hear it. If x has a problem with me, they can talk to me directly. On repeat

good luck

Don't mend it. These families are like balloons, the air goes to the bit with least pressure.

Keep asserting yourself and ignore any complaints about it. Very soon the family dynamics will rearrange so that people are accommodating to the way you are, in the same way that they are accommodating to your brother's rudeness or your sister's lack of consideration.

It’s not up to you to mend anything you have called out behaviour:set boundaries and your siblings have gone running to mummy and daddy like little children

sounds like your parents enable that behaviour as they should have said well xx has a point and support you

now you know they won’t then you know how to play it moving forward. Next time your sister organises something and it doesn’t suit just say sorry dc isn’t coming. Next time your brother tells you off stand your ground and say I have asked you not to go this. If your parents kick off if it’s in front of them then leave

if necessary stop going to your parents

its in your hands

Your siblings running to mummy and daddy with 'it's not fair, dusty is being horrible!'?!?! Good grief, how old are they; 5?!

You don't need to mend anything. Brilliant that you've decided to show them boundaries. Just say to your parents 'not meaning this horribly but this really isn't your problem to get involved in'.

Thanks all. You are of course right.

It’s so difficult isn’t it when it’s your own family & the dynamics are 50 yrs + in the making!!!

Why do you have to mend it?

More importantly, why do you feel it's up to you to mend anything?

Your sister was clearly unreasonable.

It's less clear with your brother what is going on - you say that you "challenge unpleasant behaviour" in person but say he "tells you off" - hard to tell without examples but both of these could be pretty nasty for onlookers to be part of.

Either way, you are entitled to whatever boundaries you want to assert, and some families can be very very difficult to be around.

I wouldn't worry about spoiling things but maybe think if you can cut down contact if they are that difficult?

@Octavia64 yes I agree which is why I have been trying to consider other methods.

with my brother, he will go into ‘dad mode’ and barks orders at me. I probably wouldn’t tolerate that in a friendship, at work or from a random member of public.

i don’t think that they are any more difficult than other families but i guess Christmas and spending time together holds a microscope up to relationships.

January arrives and we spend more time that people that we chose!

@Dustydoilies who did your sister make arrangements with to take your 11 year old son away? are you the youngest of the family? I wouldnt bother sending texts to bro and sis. I would just tell them outright. doesnt matter if they are not happy. get it in the open and it should resolve quicker! you only need to spend christmas day at family house. just go and come home in future. then you can relax and your son can play with his pressies.

You have to see this separately rather than as one issue, imo.

if your brother is being a bully, or telling you what to do, just say
‘stop telling me what to do!’
’who does and left you in charge?’
what did your last slave die of
dont be bossy
no thanks
etc.

and other such time honoured way of pushing back. It’s not a big deal unless you make it one. You can push back at that one with no confrontation at all.

The sister one is harder- ‘Oh how lovely! I’ll see if glue can go. Send me the dates again and I’ll check.’

You are falling into the trap of this being a big deal, or needing special treatment because mum and dad are pushovers.

Just treat them all like other annoying people.

There's a difference between asserting your boundaries and defending what you've said. Have the courage to know you didn't say anything unreasonable, it doesn't need defending, so no need to discuss it. Maybe develop strategies to shut the conversations over it down sooner, so it doesn't get heated and escalate. How you do that is more your judgement as you know then.

Yes thanks both.
its being more solid in your action so that when challenged there’s not an emotional reaction. There’s some really good stock phrases to shut these conversations down.

You didn't ruin anything; they did.

My best advice is to detach and distance. Anything you do or don't do, won't improve anything. Watch some stuff about dysfunctional, enmeshed families (Jerry Wise is a good one) and plan an exit strategy. I don't mean cutting your family off, just detaching emotionally, being independent and putting some physical (literal) distance between you and them as well.

You're an adult but they're still stuck in the old dynamics and treating you like a child. Time to move on!

Good luck.

Thanks @Firefly2009 yes I’ll give that a read. Not looking to cut off just step out of the drama & dodgy dynamics - exactly what I’m looking for x

I am obviously guessing, but did your parents play you off against each other when you were kids? As in, playing favourites, making you vie for your place in the pecking order, making you work hard to win your parents' approval?

@Dustydoilies the JWise youtube channel really helped me. He also tends to recommend several books which are very good. I also looked up about Drama Triangles (Karpman) which explains a lot about people's behaviour and adds to understanding about enmeshment. My main takeaway though, after understanding all about that, is it's all about disconnecting emotionally, and physically distancing.

I am a single parent of an 11 yr old. My sister arranged to take him out across country but didn’t check with me

If you’re a single parent and she didn’t arrange it with you, who did she arrange it with then?!

I sent him a message to ask him not to do this when he visits as it’s comes across as a bit patriarchal

This is a different matter. Did you actually use the work patriarchal?! This would have been far better laughing and saying, ‘yes dad!’ or something at the time.

I find mumsnet amazing. I grew up with alcoholic parents, it was a war zone, constant screaming and fighting, so I never learnt other ways to deal with conflict.
It wasn't until my 40's I learned to be less reactive, I still struggle to deal with intense emotion/anger.
My mum and sister thrived on drama, arguments and triangulation, my dad and brother were bullies.

I wish I had mumsnet in my 20's to learn other ways of dealing with it because family stuff is really difficult. I wish I had the tools/boundaries back then and maybe I would have ended up liking my family instead of avoiding them.

You didn't spoil Christmas.

@binkie163 it really is amazing isn’t it! Just tips on how to not get drawn in & recognising dynamics.

your family situation sounds absolutely awful. My one isn’t that bad, just a lot of passive aggressive behaviour & lots of ingrained misogyny that no one ever calls out. Everyone is supposed to suck it up & smile…….i just can’t do it anymore

@Dustydoilies yes don't leave it, it escalates to a point of no return. My family were so angry when I wouldn't play along anymore it got really unpleasant. Once I saw the patterns of behavior, especially the hoovering and flying monkeys, it was hard not to feel resentful. I would find myself shouting 'what part of NO are you not understanding' and other really sulky grown up stuff!
There are ways to navigate difficult people but I am only learning it now later in life. Some of the stuff I read on mumsnet is so obvious that I just don't know how I didn't know it.