Help me have a better relationship with my mum

[Gymmum82]

I’m really struggling with the relationship with my mum and I could do with some advice as to how to make it better.

She’s a pleasant woman. Kind, helpful. Would do anything to help. Very much a doer.
She is also very emotionless. Never told me she loves me. She can’t talk about emotions. Thinks mental health is nonsense. Rolls her eyes if she hears someone struggling and says they just ‘can’t cope’

Dh thinks she has no fun, it’s true. She almost sucks the fun out of any occasion. Never let’s her hair down.
He also thinks she’s quite judgemental. Which I guess she is. I’m not sure it’s intentuonal. But there are often little comments ‘oh you need a new one of these’ or ‘oh you haven’t done this’ i don’t think it’s malicious she just comments when she sees things.

I know she does love us and she’s a good person at heart. I just really struggle with her and it’s getting worse as both she and I age. I don’t want our relationship to get worse than it is so I know I need to do something to improve it but I don’t know what. Any advice?

Do you have a shared hobby?

No. There really isn’t much if anything we have in common she is also too far away to meet very regularly

Following xx have the same OP very little in common interests and personality wise with my mum - she can also be very critical and judgmental and lacking in empathy too.

I don’t think she will ever be an emotional mum - her lack of warmth and fun are just how she is and you will have to accept it. Nobody is perfect and if she is kind and generous then appreciate those qualities and ignore / accept the parts of her you don’t like.

Asdor her criticisms - can you have stock answers ready, so if she says “Oh you haven’t done such and such” you can respond with “I decided that wasn’t important enough to keep on my to do list.” Smile and stick to your guns.

Your mum sounds ok really - just set your boundaries wr to criticisms and accept her for who she is. Does your DH have a real problem with her?

She sounds very similar. How do you find being around her?

Youre right and I don’t ever expect her to change. It’s just how she is. I just find being around her for any length of time really hard work so was wondering if there was anything I could do to make it less unpleasant. I don’t want to dread spending time with her.

My husband doesn’t have a massive problem with her. He just finds her difficult as well.

I read this with some recognition. I think my daughter could have written this post. The thing is I am practical. I don't emote all over people. I control myself when with others. She doesn't. She is the opposite. She cries (I'd sooner die than cry in front of other people). She is impractical. She's untidy. The point is we are just different people. We love each other and accept our differences. It's not always easy.

@oldestmumaintheworld you sound quite similar. But sometimes I find her very unsupportive. My best friend was diagnosed with incurable cancer in her early 30’s, I was devastated. Her response was ‘oh well that’s just life’ and proceeded to tell me about some random persons daughter, not even a close friend who died from the same cancer at 18.
I don’t feel I could go to her for any support if myself or heaven forbid my children were ever ill.

My Mum has many flaws and is very different to other "typical" Mothers.
There is very little In the way of maternal instinct, empathy and understanding.
But she is who she is and is never going to change.
I spent a large proportion of my life wanting her to be different, to fit into my idea of how she should be, but that was just a total waste of time on my behalf.
Now l accept her for who she is, for all her flaws, maybe she wasn't given love as a child? I don't know.
She is 80 years old and it is what it is. I couldn't see her struggling or leave her on her own, because l am a better person than that.

My Mum sounds like yours although I think she would be a bit more sympathetic re your friend.

I can’t ever “have a laugh” with her. She’s just not like that and I have accepted we are just so different.

I look forward to my Mum’s visits (she lives 2 hrs away) but after a few days I look forward to her going! I find her quite draining and she also is judgemental and critical.

I don’t know the answer other than short burst visits.

@Gymmum82 What were your mother's parents like? How did they bring up your mother?

re your comment:
"I don’t want our relationship to get worse than it is so I know I need to do something to improve it but I don’t know what".

You cannot do that on your own; she has to want to improve things as well and she simply does not. People like your mother too never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. DO NOT EVER embark on joint therapy with her. If therapy is to be considered I would go on my own and find a BACP therapist to work with; it could be very beneficial to you particularly if you have fear, obligation and guilt when you think about your mother. She may be your mother but these women are not all loving and kind and nor do they mean well; some of them remain actively abusive. Her comments are meant to undermine you. I would think there would be hell to pay if you had said those things to her.

You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had with your mother rather than the one you actually got. She acts like this because she can and she has also learnt that behaving like this works for her. You do not mention your father here; where is he?. I ask only as he is not mentioned.

re your comment
" She’s a pleasant woman. Kind, helpful. Would do anything to help. Very much a doer".

Is she like this to and mainly around other people (she is certainly not this to you and nor does she mean well), is she the sort of woman who swoops in and shows how "capable" she is (with the subtext being you are not)?.

It is not your fault she is the ways she is (actually she does not sound at all pleasant and is completely lacking in empathy) and you did not make her that way. Her own family did this lot of damage to her. What if anything do you know about her childhood, that often gives clues. She is not emotionally safe enough to be at all around and I would further lower all contact with her.

Do consider posting on or reading the current "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages.

I had a difficult relationship with my mother and it didn’t properly resolve for me until she died (aged 86), then the angst just dissipated.

I tried very hard to understand my mother in an effort to reconcile my feelings about her. So, ref a couple of your examples.

She wouldn’t be sympathetic to me if I was upset (ie about a friend). She just couldn’t handle other people’s emotions and so shut them out. Her mother had died young and I think she tried to protect herself from that level of raw emotion ever again.

She’d had a hard life but that was partly due to bad decisions she had made. She was jealous of me in some ways because she thought I had an easy life. I used to keep my inner turmoils hidden from her because I knew she had nothing to give.

She would make sniffy remarks if I bought new prescription glasses (waste of money, you can pay £3.50 in the supermarket). There were all sorts of comments made if she thought I had something she didn’t (even if she wouldn’t have wanted it anyway).

She also had that mindset that only looked at things from her perspective. If she didn’t want to go overseas for a holiday, then everyone who did, was wasting their money.

She had been a single parent at a time when men weren’t chased for any money. She struggled a lot then when we were adult and moved away, she continued to live on her own.

She spent a lot of years making the decisions and having complete autonomy. I don’t think she was able to cast off the role of being The Mother Who is the Boss of you.

Finally she liked to voice her ‘honest opinions’. They were often rude or completely uncalled for. Out of politeness we adult children never called her out on it. I think that was a mistake, we should have tried to kindly point out what you can and can’t say in public. People who like to force their opinions on others often back down as soon as you put in boundaries and push back.

I had therapy and it was suggested to me by two different therapists my mother had some narcissistic traits.

You will never get over the hurt of not having the ‘loving’ mother you deserved. All you can endeavour to do is break the cycle with your own children.

So in essence, grey rock the stuff you don’t like, establish your boundaries, pick her up on her snippy remarks and go low contact to what suits you best. Your hurt needs to be wrapped up and put to one side, i don’t think it can ever be healed. Think of it as your inner child and be as loving to her as you can.

Sorry about the therapy speak, I think I’ve been indoctrinated after all.

I never knew her dad as he died before I was born. Her mum I guess was quite similar to her. A doer, helped a lot of people but ironically when she became ill no one ever visited her aside from her own children.

If she likes being a doer are there things where you can ask for her help? Eg “what should I do about my garden mum, could really do with a hand”. (She does sound cold though, interesting that your DH finds her difficult too).

I don’t think she’s abusive. I don’t think she really realises what she’s doing. She just sees it as giving advice or being helpful.
I think she just thinks people should be like her so gives mostly unwanted advice on how to be more like her. Which comes across as judgemental or critical.
I don’t honestly know what her upbringing was like. It’s not something she talks about.
She has very few friends and has never had many. The ones she has are superficial not close.
My dad is around and he is nothing like her. He is warm and loving. Kind and fun. My dh says he doesn’t know how he copes being with her

OP would there be any benefit to talking with her about how you feel?

Decide what you want first, though, and plan the conversation.

My mum was quite similar, although a bit more self absorbed, and she became quite affectionate when she got Alzheimers, which we (her children) found different and rather unsettling in practice.

@marmaladeandpeanutbutter im not sure. I think she would be shocked and also hurt and I feel like it would damage the relationship even more.

Gymmum82

Re your comment to me that I have separated out

"I don’t think she’s abusive. I don’t think she really realises what she’s doing. She just sees it as giving advice or being helpful.

What is your definition of abuse?.

Abuse is not just physical in nature, abuse is about power and control and your mother wants both over you and everyone else around her. She is at the centre here of her universe, all you other people are but bit part players in her play to be moved about. She is critical of you and undermines you. You would not tolerate this behaviour in a friend of yours surely?. Your mother has a modicum of basic understanding on some level and she does this too because she can. She has also learnt this works for her. Dealing with her is probably like dealing with a adult whose emotional development stopped at around six years of age.

"I think she just thinks people should be like her so gives mostly unwanted advice on how to be more like her. Which comes across as judgemental or critical".

Precisely. She also thinks that everyone else acts like or should act like her.

"I don’t honestly know what her upbringing was like. It’s not something she talks about".

Do you have any aunts or uncles; they could provide clues.

"She has very few friends and has never had many. The ones she has are superficial not close".

Again there is good reason for this. She alienates people and pushes people away by her behaviour. The only ones who actually bother with her are those who have received the Special Training (i.e to put her needs first with your own dead last) or are themselves like her in terms of personality.

"My dad is around and he is nothing like her. He is warm and loving. Kind and fun. My dh says he doesn’t know how he copes being with her"

Sadly your dad has failed to protect you from the excesses of his wife's behaviour. I would also think its difficult to see him on his own without your mother in attendance. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all so need a willing enabler; that person here is your dad.

"Her mum I guess was quite similar to her. A doer, helped a lot of people but ironically when she became ill no one ever visited her aside from her own children".

And there was good reason why this happened as well; your grandmother as well as your mother pushed and pushes people away by her overt behaviour. Toxic and otherwise dysfunctional stuff like you have described re your mother goes down the generations but it has now stopped with you because you would not treat your own children in the ways you were treated. That is indeed to your credit and you have two qualities both your mother and her own mother lacked - empathy and insight.

Due to her lack of empathy and insight there is no point whatsoever in trying to have a conversation with her about this. This is because she could do a combination of ignore, turn on the tears, get angry and or otherwise go on the defensive. Its called DARVO. She could also use your dad as a flying monkey to get back at you by getting him to tell you she is "upset" or that you are now making her "ill". She is not necessarily going to be shocked and or hurt, well not in the ways you are thinking anyway. The rule book really does go out the window when it comes to dysfunctional families.

Adopting the grey rock technique when it comes to her may help but being a grey rock is emotionally exhausting long term. I would seriously consider lowering all levels of contact further.

Hi OP I don’t have much advice I’m afraid but I just wanted to empathise and say you are certainly not alone.
my mother is very similar - but throw in narcissism and hypochondria into the mix.
I phone ( once a week) for well over an hour so she can tell me all her ailments and what they’ve been doing and eating all week. That’s fine. I visit every few weeks since she was genuinely poorly last Christmas and we have all looked after her since. I too have a friend who’s v ill with cancer she’s not interested and goes quiet and changes subject if Anyone else’s ill health is mentioned even my DDs - she likes to be centre of attention she has always bullied my dad and emotionally manipulates most situations ( think sobbing and ott dramatics) however ….. we CAN have good conversations about world events - she does have a good brain and excellent memory. We also have a love of flowers and plants, gardening etc so we can talk about that. I distanced myself emotionally and physically from my parents years ago - they don’t know how much I struggle financially - I never ask for help. She let slip only recently that I chose my life - when I hinted that it’s hard living on your own. Only reason I mentioned this was she always goes on about how she never speaks to anyone. Yet she has my dad. I get he doesn’t talk enough for her though. She will never change and may only get worse I suspect as she gets older.

@AttilaTheMeerkat i guess abuse to me is actively being nasty or hurtful and I don’t think she sets out to cause harm. If I rang her up and said I need you to drive 2 hours to have the kids because I’ve had an accident or am sick she would drop everything and do it and she wouldn’t complain about it.
I guess she has her own standards and opinions, she has a lot of opinions about everyone.

She has 4 siblings. 3 I don’t know really as 2 live abroad and 1 is much older so I’ve only met her a handful of times. One I know well and she is lovely, warm, kind, loving but also very opinionated and makes it known. However I don’t find her judgemental but maybe because I don’t really see her very often. She has never talked much about their childhood. I know they were very poor and their father died quite young.

I think I have adopted the grey rock technique unknowingly for many years but like you say it’s emotionally exhausting.