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[Amymay666]

Good Morning Everyone.

This is a bit of a long one so apologies in advance.

In March- I did an Ancestry DNA test with my kids that we all got for Christmas from myself as I thought it would be a fun thing to do.

Anyway.....my sons came back with some random mans name as their grandad and when mine came back it also had this gentleman's name on as my father.

My mother is a massive Narcissist- I was terrified to ask her and when I did she denied all knowledge and gaslit me immensely- but I was so angry and sure it was a correct result I persued it with her- she eventually turned up at my house at 5am in tears saying she had been r by the man who is my biological father and I was never to mention it again to anyone.

Since then she has not once asked if I am ok- she literally left me with the information my biological father is a r*** and has not really spoken to me.

She has told me never to tell my dad as I will devastate him etc.

Since messaging the man I have matched with- she just had an affair with him and he never knew I existed.

I am in therapy for all of this and it is going well!

Anyway, she had messaged in July asking if me and my two teenagers wanted to go to the pantomime. I had said yes as we all go every year, me, my mum, dad sister, brother and partners. It's on December the 24th and I have just found out she has not booked my two boys tickets. She is now expecting me to attend a 7pm performance on Christmas Eve and leave my kids at home and not be returning till 12am. I have said I am not coming as she hasn't booked them tickets. Before anyone says I should have booked them myself, this is not how my mother works- she books them all and is so image conscious it would cause a row- also she offered to book them and said she had and now hasn't?

It has absolutely thrown me and I feel like it's a weird mind game.

I have just spoken to my dad and he's asking if I am coming over on Christmas day- I don't want to go- I come away every year in tears where she unnecessarily insults me and everyone else just sits there as they are too scared to say anything to her. I have just explained this to him and he has said he totally understands but he still wants to see me and my boys over Christmas.

I am so awkward about it as I am keeping this massive secret from my dad on my mums behalf and my mum is still acting like a massive p towards me.

I don't want to sit in that toxic environment where she has too much to drink, starts insulting me (telling me I have too much makeup, making snide comments about do I own an iron, have I brushed my hair this morning, how I got divorced last year and she's still got my ex husband on FB and he looks like he's doing well) and then when I say something back she cries and runs to her room and tells me I have ruined her day (this has happened every year as long as I can remember- I am 37).

Am I being over dramatic

"I just thought she would be trying to at least make some sort of amends after having lied to me for 37 years about it though".

Wrong on all counts unfortunately. She has and will continue to lie to you as easily as she breathes. She likely knows too who your biological father is and that man is not the man who raised you.

All your mother cares about is her ego and getting narcissistic supply from you all; she will never be satisfied. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all so the men in their lives are as narcissistic as they are or are otherwise discarded. Your dad sadly cannot be relied upon either; he is her willing enabler.

I therefore doubt that your dad will ever go visit you on his own because he will be "punished" further by your mother for doing so. He is acting out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He has also failed you abjectly as a parent by failing to protect you from the excesses of his wife's behaviours.

Do yourself a huge favour in 2024 and reduce all interactions with them over time to zero sum; your children will also thank you for doing that. It also does them no favours at all to see you as their mother being that disrespected by their nan. Therefore I am glad to read they refuse to go to their house; you need to do the same. You only bother with her really because you've received the Special Training and she's installed the fear, obligation and guilt buttons. Keep at it with therapy and have a look at the current "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages.

She is also really weird about me speaking to anyone in the family. She tells us all how awful her other family members are then when she finds out we have spoken she goes ballastic about it, it's really weird, my aunt has had to send me all my kids presents in secret in case she finds out and has a go at her. It's SO DYSFUNCTIONAL I cannot tell you!

There is not outcome where your Mum apologises or starts acting like a Mum. Narcissists just don’t to this.

Invite your Dad over Christmas morning. If your Mum gets pissy then tell her the reason and don’t fill silences. Tell her she is abusive and manipulative and you won’t stand for it a minute longer.

After Christmas I would tell your Dad. He needs to know and you don’t want her breaking the trust in your relationship.

The rest of the histrionics is just noise - a bit like flash bangs, designed to confuse, divide and conquer. Ignore it and do what is right for you. You didn’t have an affair. I was going to say that you weren’t the one that lied to your Father - there’s a short window here before that isn’t true.

I am sorry OP, what a horrid horrid situation.

Yeah I had a massive ton of therapy when they were younger as their dad was abusive to me and I did not want to continue the cycle of enabling anything to happen to them. They know when they are being disrespected and call it out immediately and take themselves out of the situation with no qualms. They are also comfortable enough to tell me when I have upset them and we sit and discuss and apologise and make sure it doesn't happen again. I am just struggling with the fact it is so easy for me to do with my two, yet she can't do it for me....but as you've said...Narcissists.

Joint therapy with abusers like your mother is NEVER recommended. Abuse is not a relationship issue; its about power and control.

Imagine that you come to therapy with your narcissistic parent or family member, and the therapist asks you to reveal how you are feeling in this relationship. You begin to cry and express your sadness, anger, and hurt about how you have been treated.

The therapist is most likely hearing and responding to your pain. But the narcissistic party may just be sitting there with no emotion, waiting for you to be finished. They are not able to empathize or really tune into you. It’s like talking to a brick wall.

Usually, the therapist will urge the narcissist to practice empathy or even try to teach them how to do this. They may end up learning the right words to say—but if the true emotion is not there, it's usually the case that others can feel it. We know when we have been seen and heard.

Many people who are high in narcissism will attempt to exploit therapy time for their own benefit; and in the case of family therapy with an adult child, this may mean that they use it to tell the therapist what a bad son or daughter you have been or how you have caused them so much grief. The goal is to shift focus so they can appear as the victim or martyr who sacrificed so much for their "ungrateful child." In some extreme cases, they may even leave messages for the therapist later sharing some of your very personal information to make sure the therapist is on their side.

Keep at the therapy and continue to go on your own; you need to be able to talk in both a calm and safe environment.

She tells everyone that anyway lol. Her favourite thing to do is in a group of people tell them how her pregnancy ruined her career at the time :/ and she never wanted to be a mother.

Well I would tell EVERYONE. Sod it. No one can move forward in this awful web of lies.

Amymay666

re your comment on your children:
"They are also comfortable enough to tell me when I have upset them and we sit and discuss and apologise and make sure it doesn't happen again. I am just struggling with the fact it is so easy for me to do with my two, yet she can't do it for me....but as you've said...Narcissists".

You have two qualities your mother entirely lacks; empathy and insight. Your mother does not have either of those. Unlike your mother also, you are not a narcissist and your ways of handling conflict and or argument are emotionally healthy. What you are describing re she as well is typical narcissistic mother behaviour.

I'd be telling her to behave herself towards you, stop treating you like shit, or you'll bury her with the news you have.

Blackmail, maybe, but make her understand you now have the upper hand and she better stop her antics.

1. Either cut her off completely - she brings nothing to your life. You hate her, your children hate her and she's an awful woman.

2. As above (HelpMeGetThrough's suggestion). Tell her to behave otherwise your lips will get loose (you don't actually have to tell anyone the secret just threaten to). If she still behaves negatively cut her off.

“Dear Mum and Dad, thanks but we will not be joining you on Christmas Day as in the last few years it has just become too unpleasant and now that my children are older they are refusing to attend for this reason. We will celebrate together as a family and catch up with you for a coffee in the new year.”

@Amymay666

Your dad seems to understand why you don't want to be around your mother, and since he understands there's no need to go for Xmas, especially since you'd be going alone if your boys (wisely) refuse to go. If he still moans or tries to emotionally blackmail you ("But I want to see you!") then he's about as bad as she is. If he loves you unselfishly he would say "I understand" or he'd tell your mum to STFU when she's cruel instead of sitting there like a lump.

As far as whether it was an affair or a rape, you'll never really know. But I'd go with my gut feeling and that is that your mother is a liar who cannot bear to be thought to have any flaws or moral failures. Therefore, I'd go with believing it was an affair. As far as telling your dad, that's up to you. But right now that 'secret' is held by at least 5 people; your mum, the man, you, your sons (assuming 2 sons). 6 if you have a partner/DH. That's really not much of a secret, is it? Who knows who may 'open mouth, insert foot' down the line.

At this point I'd go completely NC with her as that will solve the whole problem. But if you do have to be around her, if she started up on me I'd walk up to her and whisper the man's name in her ear, just like Bates whispered 'Her Ladyship's soap' in O'Brien's. That should shut her up, at least until the next time.

I wonder how much of her nastiness to you and your DSs is based on guilt. You're the evidence of her 'sin' and she certainly can't acknowledge that to herself. So she takes it out on you.

No he knew nothing of my existence. We have put a rain check on this until New Year as it is alot to take in.

Yes I think she knew as when I told her me and the boys had the kits for a bit of fun to see our heritage she started constantly message saying don't do one, they sell your details to third party companies.

God knows about the pantomime, but it is the kind of game she would play. Since I have found out she had taken my siblings out ALOT without an invite to me- so getting them on side more I presume. But I went back and took a screenshot and sent it to my dad of her asking if they were coming, I said yes. Apparently she turned round to my dad and said I said they wouldn't be fussed. Another lie.

My boys do know yes as they got their results first via email- they are 18 and 16 so didn't really think I would have to pre screen their results and then they obviously saw it.

She has expressed none. Literally left me to it with the information that my biological dad attacked her and forbidden me to mention it to anyone at all (obviously I have) or I would have had a breakdown.

Your mum sounds toxic. Honestly I would just cut her out of your life. She’s not adding any joy to your life or your sons. It’s hard for your dad but by being in her life he has picked his side. In the long run you will be much happier.

Thank you. I have been having therapy, my boys are ok. Like I said, she's so rude to them they don't really go round anyway, there's no solid relationship there, she's more a give them money grandma than anything else. Picture bad moms Christmas (the film) Mila Kunis mum is my mum .Yes I have a fantastic network of friends!

@Amymay666

'Give them money Grandma' made me chuckle. She may think she's making an impression on them by giving them money trying to buy them but the last laugh is on her. They see her for who she is and use her as she would use them. Good on the boys!

As far as the paternity issue, I guess my main feeling is that you are entitled to tell anyone you feel like telling, from your dad on down to Mike the Milkman. It may be her 'dirty little secret' but that doesn't mean it has to be yours.