ADHD trait or emotional immaturity? Or both....

[alltoomuchrightnow]

Three times in my life I've had relationships with this. Recently, (in my 50s with a man in his 60s), also late teens and also in my late 30s. (so, a range of ages for me and the men)
All three men with (diagnosed later in life) ADHD is the other thing that links them

The issue being, emotional inconsistency...eg you have a row and the man suddenly says he doesn't love me. He doesn't because he's angry/ upset/ we are rowing/I'm wrong and he's right.. whatever. Earlier that day, he could have said he loves me, but a row suddenly stops that.
Perhaps in a few days or weeks when we've made it up, suddenly he 'loves' me again but he'll confess he didn't for that time we were rowing, or apart or temporarily split. He'll say something like, 'how can I love you when we are arguing?/ when I'm angry?' etc...
To me it's emotional immaturity, but it's made me ill in these relationships.
When I was young, I very confused as that was my first serious relationship. I put it down to us both being young and inexperienced. But to experience it again decades on and with a 60 something?
To say you can turn love on and off like a tap? No. I say then, that it wasn't truly there in the first place. Love doesn't anger that easily, in my book. It's pure playground stuff.. eg one day, 'you are my best friend' and the next (because of a squabble or found a new playmate), 'I don't like you, not talking to you any more'...
If I love someone, I might want to murder them at times, but the love remains the same. A bust up doesn't change the love. I might feel I love and 'hate' (obviously not hate in the true sense!) them all at once in a moment of anger but the love doesn't diminish. That's what a mature and stable relationship is to me. You have that reassurance that an argument or minor separation no matter how big or small, doesn't change those feelings and you can feel secure that you will reunite with feelings fully intact , or agree to disagree if can't reach a conclusion; that you will make it up without feeling that the love has somewhat been diluted.
So it's shocking to find myself again, middleaged but with the deja vu of that first relationship in my late teens.
I've discussed with a few friends and they all conclude it's an ADHD trait and of course all these men have ADHD anyway...
However, I'm currently starting my own assessment for ADHD and I can say it's the absolute opposite to me..
The other thing these three men have in common is that they were bad communicators. If there was an issue they'd avoid all confrontation or get nasty/ defensive. I'm a peacemaker and like to talk things through and not
go to bed on an argument. With these men I was bashing my head against a brick wall. If I calmly tried to discuss an issue I'd be accused of trying to start a row, when all I wanted was clear communication and to sort a problem and move forward. They'd get unpleasant and then it would blow into a full blown thing just because I'd for eg asked a simple question or asked to talk.
My workplace recently thanked me for being the mediator and peacemaker in my team, for being able to deal with the most difficult customers and co workers and being able to see both sides to everything... just to make the point that I am a fair person. I've been told this my entire life and it's true.. it's why I never take sides with people either.
Blowing hot and cold to me is the worst thing.. I find it worse than cheating in fact. It makes me scared to ever consider another relationship.
Would like to hear others opinions... I'm on the fence re it being an adhd thing but I'm trying to weigh it all up...I can't deal with anyone so changeable
and not knowing where I stand or fearing a row will make someone hostile or run (this also applies to friendships too.. it has happened a few times there too)

Also another point is that if I got upset at these men stonewalling/ refusing to communicate, they would then accuse me of being abusive as I tried to start a row... that I knew they hated confrontation.. why not just let things go...
when all I was trying to do was resolve or understand something..
this is one definition of gaslighting, right? Or just projection?
In a healthy relationship you should never be afraid to ask a simple question!
Am I right in thinking, that gaslighters will often accuse their victims of
gaslighting? I'm just trying to understand everythng, hard to see the wood for the trees

I have ADHD and I've been with DH for 20 years. We used to argue quite a lot. I feel emotions very intensely.

We'd have an argument, and we wouldn't have made up, or it felt to me like he wanted to sweep things under the carpet but then my DH would say "I love you".

I couldn't honestly say it back to him at the time as I still felt really angry/ annoyed with him. It just didn't feel authentic to say it. I know he felt hurt about that, and I did try to explain why I couldn't say it.

However if someone had said to me at the time "do you still love DH", I would have said yes, but that I didn't feel the love at that moment, even though I knew it was there underneath. I can't feel angry and loving at the same time.

Usually when I say "I love you" to someone, I feel loving towards them if that makes sense.

Could that be what your partners meant?

Strawberry, that does also make some sense to me..
I know for me, being a passionate person, I can be devastated/ hurt / angry
but love just as deep (but no, I probably won't be likely to SAY it at that moment - but I will feel it deep down)
but I've literally had some of these men tell me that 'I stopped loving you during that row' and then they fell back in love when we made up (could be days/ weeks / months if was a separation). To me
that's absurd... it made me ill at times with the chopping and changing.. i love you.. now I don't.. now I do... teen immaturity is one thing but decades on?!

I'm the kind of person who doesn't believe in going to bed on an argument.
So in healthy past relationships, you could say good night feeling very bruised and tender, maybe not agreeing at all, but still able to say you love each other and safe in the knowledge that it's just a blip that doesn't change anything and is in fact perfectly normal... you could even wake up in the morning in each other's arms and not really see their point of view but still no that agreeing to disagree is the better option...(and of course, listening to each other's point of view, regardless of how you feel..)

by bruised and tender, I do mean emotionally of course, not physical!

I was diagnosed as an adult and while I definitely have traits that can be seen as emotional immaturity, what you are describing is emotional abuse that is independent of any neurological disorder they may have had. They said things specifically to hurt you and then doubled down on those things.

You are absolutely right that these men were gaslighting you and trying to make you to be a bad guy. This is also not an ADHD trait - that's just a trait of an abuser.

They were basically using "I love you" as a reward / punishment. "Shut up or I won't love you", this is calculated and lets make one thing clear - they did not love you. Nobody does that to someone they love.

@alltoomuchrightnow yea these can be adhd traits, particularly in men.

But why do you care, could it be more helpful to seek therapy to address your feelings around past experiences and trauma, whatever the causes of these were?

Flowerbarrow, just trying to make sense of it all, can't believe this has happened to me again :(

PaintedEgg, I agree

I would also say that if you suspect you may have ADHD yourself it would not be unusual to be attracted to people with the disorder...and unfortunately to attract men who are abusive

this is purely personal experience but as a side effect of the disorder Im a massive people pleaser. I can stand up for others, but never for myself and this has been in the past used to manipulate me. Even when I knew I was being manipulated I still struggled with a notion I may be upsetting person who was effectively abusing me.

To this day I struggle with assertiveness to the point where I once told my husband that my first response will always be in agreement and that if I disagree I will need time to voice it - even though I know he wants to know my actual opinion.

Do you perhaps have a higher tollererance threshold to arguing as got used to it in daily life growing up.
A lot of your focus is on what happens in arguments within relationships, but also, how often is a factor in a general sense. If arguing a lot, is it worth it anyway? Or do you feel you need to hash things out by arguing.
I really couldn't be bothered to be in a relationship that consisted of lots of arguing, it shows incompatibility. Not that it's realistic that it never happens, but if it's weekly or even monthly, I'd give it up.

Some people with ADHD can seem narcissistic sometimes, but their behaviour is coming from a place of being totally overwhelmed with every emotion, rather than devoid of any and doing it to manipulate and control. The reasons are different, but for the person on the receiving end ultimately the outcome is the same and it can be very emotionally damaging. ADHD is a spectrum though and people's symptoms present differently. There are also NT people who stonewall, feel like they don't love someone during an argument etc, sometimes because they've seen unhealthy dynamics between their own parents growing up and sometimes because they're a bit toxic.

Opentooffers, my parents rarely argued
and as a peacemaker I'm not used to arguments in relationships. It was these
exes that would cause a row if I wanted to calmly discuss something that we perhaps couldnt agree on

I'm certainly a people pleaser and will go to great lengths to avoid rows
Always treading on egg shells
But if an issue needs addressing I will gently try...and with these men I was met with hostility and defensiveness, sometimes violence or complete shutting down

I think it can be part of ADHD in boys/men. ADHD is very different in girls/women than it is in men. In addition, ADHD comes in different combinations of difficulties, so there is no one size fits all presentation of ADHD in anyone.

I think you are right about it being poor communication
emotional inconsistency...eg you have a row and the man suddenly says he doesn't love me. He doesn't because he's angry/ upset/ we are rowing/I'm wrong and he's right.. whatever. Earlier that day, he could have said he loves me, but a row suddenly stops that.

This isn’t emotional inconsistency. This is someone who sees love as a feeling you feel. Of course they are not feeling love when they are rowing with someone. This doesn’t meant that they are not in love, or have turned off love but more that in the middle of a row, they’re not feeling love for you in the moment.

If I love someone, I might want to murder them at times, but the love remains the same.

Your conception of love is less consistent because wanting to murder someone cannot happen simultaneously at the same time as loving them. To say that the love remains the same, that may be true for how you envision the nature of love, but it’s not the case for everyone. Many would argue that wanting to murder someone means you never really loved them in the first place.

ADHD doesn’t cause DV though and some of what you are relating is purely DV.

In that case, don't wast energy on the why, you may never know and there could be lots of different kinds of baggage from their past that causes it. You protect yourself by ending things so you can move onto better.
You've met 3 men with severe baggage over decades, that's not that many really, there are tonnes out there. The trick is to get out fast when you come across any controlling behaviour.

Indeed. All the examples being given could also be the behaviour of someone ND and/or who experienced trauma and/or a plain old abusive arsehole. I think ADHD is a red herring here and instead the OP is repeating a pattern of behaviours herself without even realising her childhood experiences are most likely why she is drawn to men like this and/or why they're attracted to her.

I agree completely. ADHD alone can’t explain their DV behaviours. It only explains some of the different thought processes and perceptions.

The fact the men all have ADHD means that they are at high risk of having been victims of trauma themselves, and we all know that past trauma is a risk factor of becoming an abuser yourself.

OP is for some reason attracted to and is attractive to men like this.
Perhaps it’s her peacemaker abilities and endless patience.
It does seem that her parents’ relationship is the model relationship that she compares all her relationships to. This isn’t a bad thing if it’s kept in context, but no two relationships are ever the same and a child’s view of what their parents performed as their relationship for the child’s benefit isn’t always the full depth of things. Still waters are not always calm waters.