Constantly fighting - even though our son is 4

[Depressedbadger]

Hi all - I'm going through a bit of a difficult time here and I'm just looking for advice or perspectives. My husband and I had our son just over 4 years ago - a surprise spontaneous pregnancy after we were told we were very unlikely to get pregnant naturally. And, to be honest, things have been rocky since. We just simply weren't prepared for how much a child turns your life upside down. We're both quite selfish people who were used basically to suiting ourselves before our son came along.

My husband started a new job about 2 months before we had our son. Mainly because he wanted to make a good impression in this new job, after his 2 weeks' paternity leave, he was never home before 1900 every night, so I was left with the baby all day. Our parents live over 400 miles away, I'm an only child and he has only one sibling who lives far away too, so we had no family support. I got PND.

Fast forward, much talking therapy and antidepressants later, things aren't really much better; I am still depressed. Every single weekend, my husband and I have a fight about something or other. I think we both really struggle to parent our son sometimes - he is a total live wire and just gets so over-excited about things. A trigger point was a class birthday party yesterday afternoon - there was an entertainer, who was asking the kids (for some of the time) to sit on their bottoms while he did tricks and whatnot. My son was the only one of the group unable to do this, or to sit and wait his turn, so I felt I had to intervene and hold him on my knee to get him to sit and not be "taking over". It was a the same at a birthday party on Saturday morning - skipping the queue and not waiting his turn despite both me and the entertainers asking him several times. Then, yesterday afternoon, he lost interest in the entertainer and decided he wanted something to eat before everyone had sat down, which I just let him do as sometimes I feel completely defeated by it all. I feel completely out of control sometimes when parenting him.

I came home and explained this to my husband and how I find it quite anxiety-inducing that our son is the only one who won't sit down. When he was a toddler, he was the sudden bolter and the playground escapee; he is just is on the go from morning to night, which is the main reason we don't have another one. My husband clearly thinks I'm being unreasonable and (as he put it last night) "You just want him to be like you were - a mini adult and a compliant little 8 year old girl, rather than a little boy who's just turned 4".

I don't actually want this at all, and make a lot of effort with and for my son to help him get his energy out. He is an only child and so I want to take him to these parties so he can have fun with kids his age, even though I often find it overwhelming and stressful. I am trying my best and I just do not feel my husband backs me on this. I suspect my husband was the same as a child (he was the kid who was always talking in class - the chatterbox). I was, indeed, the compliant, academically high-performing listening girl (much good that's done me). But I am very conscious I don't want our son to hit 4, 5, 6 and still not be able to listen and follow simple instructions. I think there are two sides to my husband's side of the story that his teacher "took against him" - I reckon he repeatedly disrupted class by not shutting up and the teacher was probably understandably frustrated with him.

My husband clearly thought PND was a temporary thing and I'd get better, so he is just DESPERATE for me to get better now, wondering to where his previously (reasonably happy) wife disappeared. He makes constant suggestions about things that might help, apparently unable to see that his own behaviour and reactions to the frustrations I have with parenting also play a part in helping me feel better. He often points out how my depression affects him and our son. But I feel he's been pretty rubbish about providing gentler emotional support in situations like these - he makes it seem like it's all my fault and I'm a rubbish mother for feeling like this because our son is "only 4". My view is that how he himself was parented plays a huge part in this.

Am I unreasonable? How can we get past these differences and learn to parent our son effectively? These high-stress fights, littered with personal insults about our respective upbringings and parents are really hampering any chance of my recovering my mental health, endangering our marriage and distressing for our son.

I'm so sorry for the essay and thank you if you have read it. Any advice is very gratefully received; I don't really have anyone IRL, whom I can tell all this.

It sounds like maybe your child has ADHD. It's worth looking into as the medication can really transform someone. It can be hereditary.

You and your DH can absolutely get through this. Parenting is tough!

Firstly - (assuming your son is NT) - you have to start getting stricter with him and set very clear boundaries. For example - when an entertainer asks him to sit down he must do it - if he doesn't you leave the party. Under no circumstances is he allowed to eat the party food before the rest of the children - if he has a tantrum, so be it, take him outside.

It sounds difficult, and in the short term it will result in you leaving parties earlier, and having a tantruming child - but when he learns the boundaries are firm and the same consequences consistently happen when he breaks the rules he will become like those other children who are able to sit down and watch the entertainer and wait until the food is ready.

You don't say if your husband would support this type of parenting but assuming you can both agree on the boundaries and the consequences then you will be doing it together. You're right you probably need to stay away from talking about both your upbringings - you two together can recognise your son's behaviour is not ideal and together you can try to to fix it.

But being on your own until 7pm every night is hard and it's totally understandable why you are exhausted and sometimes give in to your son. Maybe if you position it as something you both need to fix your DH will think about his own role and how he can help.

Good luck!

I don't have any wise words, I'm afraid, just wanted to say that this DOES sound crap and I'm not surprised you are struggling.

Two things:

1. You. It sounds like you are still depressed. Have you seen your GP? I really struggled with my mental health during pregnancy and for several years afterwards, and my GP was very sympathetic
2. Your boy. My DD was very similar, and I felt utterly overwhelmed. It IS relentless. All I can advise is to contact a GP and your child's school (or nursery) about possible ADHD assessment, although I would say it can take YEARS to even see someone. Also, I found that it got easier as my DD got older - she is more independent now at 10, and I don't have to be on it 24/7 anymore. We gradually got more and more of our time back as she started taking herself to school, going to people's houses for playdates, going to stay with family for a few days (my folks are also hundreds of miles away and I didn't have anyone local, so had to wait until she was old enough to be away from us for a night or two).

Hang in there, chicken, you've already made the first HUGE step forward by coming on here and talking about your situation. Sometimes just writing it down helps.

Have you spoken to nursery or school? Does he do this kind of behaviour there? If not then it's more possibly a parenting issue, that he's not clear in expectations/boundaries etc. It might also be worth thinking about doing some kind of sporting club at weekends where they are often very up on learning rules, but in a fun way... plus will burn up energy, so might buy you a quieter weekend afternoon!

I'm really sorry but I've got 3 toddlers younger than yours it doesn't sound like you properly parent but let him do what he wants. Ours will sit when asked, eat when told etc so unless your son has medical problems you need to parent. Plus poor bairn in-between 2 grumpy parents can't help but blame part of his bad behaviour on being in-between it bless him.

What is your husband contributing to his son's upbringing apart from criticising you? He started his job 4 years ago now so presumably works more reasonable hours that allow him to do his share of the parenting during the week. Do you work? Why doesn't your husband take his son to some of these parties and show everyone how wonderfully he can deal with it? I suspect in the moment with a kid who is running riot he wouldn't be empowering him to be a super happy small boy (as he clearly imagines) but he'd probably either be yelling at him to sit down or allowing him to do whatever and ensuring he never gets invited back. What do you think would happen?

TBH it sounds like you're doing a perfectly ok job with your son but you feel criticised, unsupported, blamed, alone and hopeless. I agree with a PP about making sure you're still getting health support you need. But also consider whether the relationship with your husband is healthy or (as it sounds) has got really unhealthy.

Thank you so, so much to all who have been so supportive - I’m welling up over here!

I am surprised at the suggestion to take him home when he does this. I honestly did consider that at one point last night and when I texted my husband from the party to tell him what was going on, he suggested it! But I felt so bad spoiling his fun. In a total surprise outcome, I am more good cop and my husband more bad cop.

@Ladyj84 i assure you, we do parent our son - we are mostly very strict with him. He also attends a school which we chose very carefully specifically because of the way he is, where manners and good behaviour is expected and they’re really hot on it. Some children take more parenting that others, though. And some clearly really struggle to listen, like my son.

Hilariously, I was a bit judgy of parents who couldn’t control their kids before I became a parent and now this is 💯 % karma. 😂

Is he like this at school? The school can write a report for ADHD assessment.
You can also ask your health care provider for parenting classes.
Bless him he's only four.
I'd also ask about medication change.. your antidepressants are clearly not working.
Look for groups in your area that help with all these things.

His class teacher has mentioned the not listening and wondered whether it was his hearing. She hasn’t mentioned the queue skipping and not taking turns.

When tested in July, his hearing was within range of normal, though he did have glue ear.

I think some of the challenges you are experiencing are normal for having an energetic 4 year old, however it sounds like your confidence in knowing what to do in the moment aren't as solid as they could be. Like why did you feel you needed to get assurance from your H to bring your child home early? This isn't an accusation - just a question to ponder on.

Also, sitting down with him and agreeing your approach may be helpful - so the feeling of being criticised can be managed better. No parent gets it right all the time.

Your son is old enough to talk to him about your expectations regarding his behaviour. Before and eventually or party, tell what you expect and that he needs to behave. If he doesn't, you will take him home immediately and he will miss out on the fun. You say this and then you follow through, every time. He is just four, so you really do need to constantly manage and train at this age. He needs you to teach him self control. It will get better, I promise.

I have some experience of the exact behaviours you mention!

If he's 4 and he's like this, I would say he genuinely cannot at this time handle queues or sitting in a circle etc. That isn't your parenting, it's just the way your child is. That's probably adding to the tension between you and your husband because neither of you can understand why your son is behaving this way.

Taking him home from a party probably won't help. You could try by removing him from the room and talking to him away from everyone else and rejoining once you're sure he understands. Sounds like he's quite impulsive still. At 4 he'll soon start to realise that his peers are behaving differently and this might start to bother him. I would just really encourage any good behaviour and make sure he knows he's a great little boy just the way he is. If at school the teachers notice that he struggles, eventually they'll call you in and you can all start to find ways to support him.

Don't listen to the people criticising your parenting. If they haven't experienced this

Sorry posted before finished...

Don't listen to the people who are criticising your parenting when they likely haven't experienced this kind of behaviour from a child themselves.

Don't be hard on yourself. Just encourage anything positive and make sure you build his self-esteem.

Wondered how long it would take for Super Parent to swoop in. Maybe some kids are just different, and you were just lucky?

We did absolutely everything we could think of and that was advised by books and websites and nothing worked. Nothing. Someone on MN once did a "I have ADHD, AMA" thread, and I found it so helpful - they explained that they simply don't have the ability to learn a lesson. Where you or I might spill a pot and learn not to to it again because of the reaction it got or the consequences it caused, a kid with ADHD may well do it again and again and AGAIN - not because they're bad children with useless parents, but because they simply don't take feedback on board and learn from it. We'd tell DD to sit down, and she'd forget instantly and do something else, so we'd tell her again, and she'd say "coming!" and get distracted on the way there, so we'd ask her again and she'd sit, but then be up again 10 seconds later because she'd just remembered something she wanted to get and on and on it would go.

WRT ADHD assessment, it was school that initially suggested we see CAHMS about possible ADHD and 6 years later we're still waiting to see someone.

@renomeno I contacted his class teacher this morning; she has noticed it too (especially recently, when they’ve been out of routine, apparently). She has offered a meeting with her and the SENCO to discuss strategies to deal with it Etc, which feels positive.

@QueenBakingBee i guess I just sought reassurance from him because I felt bad about our son missing out on fun with his friends as he’s an only and has no playmates his own age at home. But I completely see the value of taking him home until he learns. This has been a theme of his entire childhood so far: leaving things early because I couldn’t cope with the stress of what would in the past have been termed his “hyperactivity.”

@WitcheryDivine I do work - full time in a professional job. My husband also works full time but his job is much more senior than mine, and private sector whereas mine is more public and, frankly, much less busy than his. He also manages a team, whereas I have no direct reports. Therefore, I do more of the kid-related stuff in the evenings. He is rarely home before 1900 but will do bath and stories if he is home. Practically all the school-related mental load and homework etc falls to me to oversee.

Really familiar situation to me, although I'm the dad.

Although mine loves school & did pre school & is really well behaved there, can be a right handful outside of it.

Friends have more of the issue with their lad they are always at school & were at pre school with theirs, in the heads office about his behaviour he's a proper rascal & I don't believe it's their parenting that's the problem.

For my situation as a couple we didn't make it, it's my belief it's got to be better for kids to have 2 homes with parents who truly love & care for them, than just one which is just a hostile & combative full of arguments environment. From my side this was really turning me into someone I don't want to be, I'd had a horrendous year for a couple of pretty life changing reasons & felt like a volcano about to explode in a truly bad way.

I am sorry that this is all getting on top of you.

All children are different and develop different skills at different rates. I do not think it helps you to be thinking "all the other children are sitting still." All the other children are not your child. Comparisons are damaging and cause anxiety.

I do not think it helps to look for labels either.

Maybe chat to him before an event and say that you understand he sometimes gets excited and finds it hard to sit still or to join a queue, but be clear that this is what is needed. It may be that he needs it spelt out rather than having to second guess it when in the middle of the event. Talk about what you might both do about it. Say clearly that this is what he needs to try his best to do and ask how you can help if he is finding that hard. If you acknowledge the problem and show understanding and then engage him in the solution it might help. Maybe the two of you could agree that if he is getting too excited you should both pop out for a few minutes. Hopefully that might avoid a situation where you are essentially having to punish him for simply being who he is.

He cannot help but be himself, but needs clear guidelines and support to do things that are hard for him when needed. I honestly think we sometimes ask too much of little children before their brains have developed sufficiently to be able to comply.

I had to stop ballet lessons when DD was 4 as she was so excited by the music that she just danced around like a maniac!! - never mind that the teacher was trying to have some structure to what they were doing. I thought I would spare the poor teacher! DD was simply not ready for it - the fact that others were was irrelevant. DD is an entirely normal adult now!

I am sorry that you have suffered with low mood since your pregnancy - it can be very burdensome.

I do though think it is very important to find a way that you and your OH can be "on the same page" when you are dealing with your son; or at the very least to back each other up in front of your son - and then discuss it in private afterwards. Differing views need to be respected, but your son does not need the confusion of seeing you both disagreeing about his management. It may be that part of the problem here is that your depression makes you vulnerable to any hint of criticism and that is entirely understandable. But if you formulate in your own mind ideas for dealing with these scenarios with your son (and having confidence in them and the reasoning behind them) hopefully you can create a situation where you and your OH can have a proper conversation about it without accusations or recriminations.

I'm wishing you lots of luck with all this - bringing up children is a big challenge!

There's quite a lot going on here.

Some of the behaviours you describe could just be an energetic 4 year old. They could also be a sign of ND. It's good that you are speaking to the school and to the SENCO and looking at next steps. If he doesn't listen at school, can't follow instructions etc, he will very quickly fall behind in his learning. He will also find it difficult to make and retain friendships so the more support you can give him, the better.

You clearly struggle with a lot of aspects of parenting. I don't blame you, I did too. What breaks do you get? You mention that you are doing the bulk of the parenting int he week, as well as all the mental load. What is your DH doing? And when do you get a break? why are you doing all the parties for example - you should be taking it in turns. Then he can be the one to deal with poor behaviour in public and YOU can be the one to be at home watching a bit of tv or reading a book. I notice you say you're both naturally selfish people and yet, it sounds like you have stepped up because you have this little person to look after now. What about your DH?

Then there's his lack of support. If your'e constantly complaining about DS, I could see how that might frustrate him. But as above, what is he DOING? Perhaps if you're finding it hard, a more supportive husband would say, "right, me and DS are out for the whole day today - you have a lovely quiet one and get yourself together". Or perhaps he might tell you what DS did when he was with him and that helped him to manage the behaviour? But again, as it sounds like he doesn't ever have to manage the behaviour, it's pretty easy for him to have lots of opinions that are backed up with a grand total of fuck all.

@JadziaD to be fair: my husband does take our son out to activities at weekends. He offered to take him to the parties this weekend but i said I wanted to do the sat morning party and DH then took him out on Saturday afternoon. Then he took him to an activity on Sunday morning and so I took the Sunday afternoon party otherwise he would have had him all day. From now on, I will just agree to him taking him to more parties: he knows I find them stressful.

We seem to be tag-team parenting much of the time because, unless we’re paying a professional, we get no breaks.

Parenting a child like this is absolutely exhausting.

Your SH criticising you is not helping. If you can it might be worth sitting down and agreeing strategies for how you will manage particular situations.

You might find the book "the explosive child" helpful.

I once read a quote from someone, I forget who, saying that children like this need adults with exceptional parenting skills. I certainly didn't have exceptional parenting skills and had to learn on the job.

The triple P parenting course might also be helpful for you, if only because you can both do it and if will kick start some useful conversations between you and your DH.