Mother - toxic passive aggressive -

[Flyhigher]

Mother now 80. A controlling passive aggressive nightmare. Good Mum till about 10 or 11.
Awful after that. Lies all the time. Narcissistic.
Think she's mentally ill. She's loved alone for 30 years. Dad left her. She's dragging me down with her. At 80 I can't just ignore her. Anyone else have this? Any advice? When I talk to her I literally feel my mental health being ripped up. She's 80 though. Anyone else have this?

My advice would be to keep visits short and to a minimum.

Lived alone for 20 years. Not 30.
Yes I guess so. Trouble is I live 200 miles away. So have to stay overnight. She then says I don't stay there long. But yes. I have to protect myself.

Go as low contact as possible. Decide on boundaries before you interact with her and do not alter them for any reason. Do not feel guilty for having these boundaries. People like that thrive off of guilt and shame. They will try and constantly manipulate you. You need to try and be completely emotionally detached. You can just ignore her if you need to. Being your mum doesn't give her the right to abuse you. Its ok to prioritise your own needs.
I really sympathise. As someone who grew up with a narcissistic mother I know it feels almost criminal whenever you have to prioritise your own needs or any time you can't make her the centre of the universe. You have been groomed from a young age to feel total obligation to her and that not putting her first is some kind of horric selfish act on your part. Its hard

How would you like your future visits to be? Set some boundaries and if she oversteps them at least you have communicated why you feel your visits would be better kept short and staying in a hotel nearby.

Thanks! Actually I think it made me really hard. And it's one of the reasons I Ieft home and moved 200 miles away.
Now- she's 80 and sister is guilting me. And she's frail now. But acid tongued. I try really hard to set boundaries. But she says things like I looked after your daughter for weeks. She looked after her twice in 16 years. Never helped me.
All I asked for was nice eggs her house is new but horrible. She said I was spoiled. Asking for eggs.
It's next to impossible to set boundaries. Only acquiescing to her needs

I'm a mother too. And sometimes I worry her traits are rubbing off on me.
Also I worry my teen does some things my mum also does. Teens are a bit narcissistic too.
Setting boundaries with mothers and teens very hard.

Whose sister is guilting you? Her sister (your aunt), or your sibling?

I'd say that sometimes boundaries are for ourselves, not other people.

For example, set boundaries for yourself regarding what you won't tolerate. If someone pushes them, leave.

Setting boundaries for narcissists is pointless. It's like waving a red flag with a bullseye on it, at a bull. All it does is tell them what buttons to press in order to cause the most stress, upset and chaos.

Ps, I'm willing to bet that if you'd said 'get anything in to eat for my visit, apart from eggs. I hate eggs - There would have been eggs in for your visit. Guaranteed.

The red flag narcissist thing is correct. It does tell them where to press.
You are correct. I guess I know how to play her game. Which is hideous. So I then do it back.
Then we get locked in a hellish battle.
She's taught me how to argue like this. It happens with my daughter too.
I wanted some nicer organic eggs rather than the cheap tasteless ones. She said I was spoiled and that my daughter is spoiled. She's just horrible.
Then she starts crying when called out on it.
I've done my best for you. You've always hated me. You are just like your father. I did what I could. I've worked hard all my life. I never had any time. She retired at 50. To Spain left everyone. Visited me at best once a year. I visited her in Spain at great expense about three times a year.

@Pinkbonbon you are right stress and chaos.
How do you know all this?

My sister is guilting. She's ok to do it I guess. She's suffering too.

I’m not sure what to make of this reply. You asked for advice and I agree setting boundaries is hard but what’s the alternative? You choose to model your narcissistic mother? I know which one I choose no matter how hard it is. I also believe we all have narcissistic traits in us every single person in this world and if I’m honest with myself I am extremely skilled at spotting how others use narcissistic manipulation and then mirroring them and using their own tactics against them however, if I use this expertise it makes me feel bad about myself so I try not to. You at least are self aware enough to accept you have narcissistic traits and the skills of manipulation which accompanies these traits also. Many others who use ‘narcissistic labelling’ in this world are in denial they too have these traits and IME I find them the worst narcissists of all.

Set boundaries.
Stay in a hotel when you visit.
Keep your time short but productive with your mother.

If you feel guilt acknowledge and accept that this is a consequence of setting boundaries and moving on with your life and also demonstrates you have a capacity to feel guilt. Unfortunately, those that don’t feel guilt are masters of manipulation and they often present themselves as the victim in every scenario too.

Quite simply. I love you mother. Every time I visit you make me feel upset and I’m starting to dislike the way I act when I am with you. I know you have said this is my problem and I am spoilt. I’m sorry I make you feel like that too. I’m going to stay in a hotel when I visit. Let me know how I can help you with anything when I next visit. I’m not able to discuss this any further at the moment. I hope you come to understand why I feel for my own well being I have to put these measures in place and I think these measures will help us build a better relationship in the future.

Your mother may well kick off however, don’t react. Go ahead with your planned measures and if she chooses not to respect these boundaries and deny you a visit to her then this is her choice.

Don’t rise to your mum’s bait OP. That’s what she’s getting off on.

The minute you enter into an argument with her, she’s “won”.

I have a lot of stock phrases when my mum starts on.

“Yes, that’s a good idea, I’ll bare it in mind” (then do your own thing anyway)
“I can understand why you feel like that” (even if you can’t)
“I’m unable to do that” (said calmly)

I’m sure I’ll think of more.

Other times, I just let whatever it is she’s said just “hang” in the air – I say nothing at all.

Same if she has a DARVO moment and wails and sobs and turns it all round on me being the Evil Daughter – just sit, saying nothing, and let her ride through it.

Drop the rope your mother holds out to you and go onto have no contact with her whatsoever. Do not engage with her at all; you come off far worse from any interaction with her. It is not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking.

You won't turn into your mother either because you have two qualities she entirely lacks - empathy and insight.

I am at my 92 year old mother's at the moment - at the end of a 2 day stay. I had intended to fly to see her for the day but she said she was lonely and needed someone at night - my boundary slipped and I regret it. I am apparently no fun, I'm not entertaining enough, I don't make her laugh, I'm not like my siblings - what was the point of me coming, I should not come back.

She's frail but by God there's still plenty of fight left in her - she's become more demanding and more unpleasant, comments on my appearance, on my job, gets upset at dh calling was annoyed that I was MNing whilst she was watching football in a foreign language - I have no idea what that was about. I get attacked for not drinking tea when she drinks tea - not having cakes when she has them, my hair looks like the Aunt she despises and then she has a go at me in front of her carer. Get me this, move that, turn that up, close that curtain, open the door - no please from her, ever - ask and that will be another row! I know how petty this all sounds but it's drip, drip, drip. I might be finally done with her - she is horrible and she makes me feel horrible.

I hadn't considered this perspective. Thank you

This all over.
My mother is 79..and has all those traits but has always been like it. I am NC for my mental health. She texts that she loves me, when she's bored, lonely (got no one else to manipulate), etc..shes cruel, misogynist, never complimented me on my achievements, anything really. I don't text her back. It took a long time and my mental health suffered badly, i cut her off 7 months ago..i wont feel guilt when she dies. She is my mum, but a bad one to the core. Id go very LC at the least OP

Haha, about a decade on these forums and some first hand experience.

My gran was one too and I was the scapegoat. So yeah...maybe keep your kid away from her as much as possible. Its such a shame she's even ruining your relationship with your own daughter
:(

I think if we spend too much time around them, it's like that drain us of us...and pour their own poison in in its place, bit by bit. Until we don't even recognise ourselves anymore.

I notice now when I'm around their sort - as I find myself becoming sarcastic. I'm not normally particulatly sarcastic so if I catch that creeping in...it's usually a sign there is someone nearby that's intent on causing me harm. Dunno if it affects others like that but just what ive noticed for me. I guess something about them is off and i notice it and it puts me on the defensive.

And I gtf away from that person as fast as possible. Not always easy when its family though.

Relating to comments about our appearances. My mother who is nearly 80 has always commented on how I look tired/ill/unfinished I look. And the gem ... like death warmed up. She really did say that to me. I felt fine. I just had no make up on. And reading this you'd assume I'm frumpy, with lifeless hair, dowdy clothes. Not a stealth boast but does she not notice how good I look? what is she thinking.