Complex friendship issue - unpleasant yet vulnerable "friend," being exploited

[daisydonkey]

I'm 30 and graduated from university 8 years ago. Whilst I was at university, our friendship group made friends with a girl who exhibited very , very strange behaviour; to the extent it was clear she obviously had some mental health problems. She was referred to the local CMHT whilst we were at uni, and diagnosed with EUPD from them.

Examples included:

1. She was the eldest of 5 and said she needed money to support her parent's as her Dad's business was failing, and she'd had to take on credit cards to support this.
   As we were all students, none of us had any money spare. She'd phone us and demand money to help pay her credit card bills, and genuinely demand we would sell our stuff or take out loans/ credit card ourselves to pass on the money to her, ( obviously we all refused to do this). She would cry and say how horrible we were in refusing to assist.

2. We didn't live with her, but she would tell us how she would lock the communal toaster and microwave in her room when she went out, ( she was in uni halls so these were owned by the uni and available to everyone).

This caused arguments with her housemates, but she refused to accept she was wrong; and she would send lengthy and abusive emails to the uni accommodation service when asked not to do this.

There were ongoing issues, with her calling 999 on housemates if they asked her to take the rubbish out, ( uni accommodation service had a weekly rota by room number). She didn't seem to understand how inappropriate it was to misuse 999 in this way, ( she'd tell 999 she felt threatened by her housemates, but admit afterwards it was just cos she wanted to stop her housemates asking her again).

3. Whilst we were there, another student sadly died in a car crash and there was alot of local media attention. None of us, ( including her), had ever known or met him. Yet she was posting facebook memorials for the next six months about the loss of her "best friend."

4. She got into a very worrying and strange relationship during uni. The man involved was the same age as us, but not a student and working full time. He'd take her to hotels to stay very regularly, ( alot of these were paid for via his work). She'd tell us she didn't want to have sex until she was married for religious reasons, but he would sexually assault at these hotels. We told her to cut all contact with him and to report to the police, but she would continually go back and then genuinely appear surprised when she was assaulted again. He ended the relationship by blocking her on everything, ( he even married someone else when he was in his early 20's), but years after he cut contact and blocked her, she'd maintain that, "he's technically cheating on me by marrying x, as he didn't actually say he'd dumped me , he just blocked me, so until he says he dumped me we are still in a relationship," ( this was years after he'd cut contact by blocking her on everything).

5. She'd regularly accuse university staff, ( both lecturers and support staff such as library workers), of being verbally abusive to her and would make formal complaints regarding this. This normally centred around her wanting extensions , and not understanding what was an acceptable reason to request an extension for an essay, ( her subject was 100% coursework). E.G she would think they were being abusive if she requested an extension as she had to go to a family party the day before an essay was due.

We stayed friends with her as it was clear she was vulnerable, had the EUPD diagnosis and had poor mental health bad enough for the CMHT to be involved.

But after we graduated her behaviour ramped up further. She began to get very nasty to various members of the group . Most cut contact. I never officially cut contact, but remained very, very low contact and "busy."

She messaged me recently out of the blue and said she was having a hard time as a relative had died and wanted to reconnect. I felt bad too say a flat out no.

However, since this message 8 weeks ago she's been phoning me upwards of 10 x a day, demands to know why I just don't tell my employer to "wait!!!" when she calls whilst im working .

She is still demanding money for very spurious reasons, ( this time, due to a cousin having an emergency), and is still annoyed when I say no.

She will ring at midnight on work nights and be genuinely offended when I say I can't talk, ( she doesn't work and receives benefits due to he mental health). It honestly appears from talking to her, she hasn't changed at all.

More disturbingly, she says she is in regular contact with the man who assaulted her at uni. He is still married and has told her he won't leave his wife for her, but is happy to meet her in hotels for sex. She has forwarded me messages and the way he speaks to her is disgusting, and he is clearly laughing at her obvious vulnerabilities, ( also spurious threats that if she tells his wife they are in contact he will report her parents to HMRC).

I know I'm not responsible for her and she is not a very pleasant person to be around; but she is so vulnerable and clearly being sexually exploited by this man that I feel bad to cut her off completely.

What would be the best way forward here ?

For clarity, she says she is no longer under a CMHT but receives PIP and UC as her mental health makes her too ill to work; so I can't speak to CMHT R.E. my concerns she is being exploited.
Alot of her contact is about this man and what she can do to finally win him back from his wife.....

Thanks for all the help so far. To clarify some points:

1)Her family would not be able to assist her. Her Dad died after she graduated. Her mother has very obvious and severe learning disabilities, ( I have met her several times whilst we were at uni, so she is not lying about the level of her mum's LD.).

I personally doubt the marriage would have been allowed to go ahead today, due to the mother's LD, but obviously they married over 30 years ago. The siblings are 26, 22, 17 and 15.

The 26 and 22 year old do not live in the family home and have very significant issues in there own lives which means they can't really help, and the 15 and 17 year old have very significant SEN.

2. I don't think she's lying about the man. When we were at uni we witnessed him constantly laughing at her, making threats to her family etc and he would openly say at the time in front of both her and us, ( "well she's stupid but gives me sex.")

The screenshots don't look doctored, he is saying the exact same things he said before, ( e.g threats to report the family to HMRC/ DWP if she doesn't comply). From his social media, ( I am not a SM friend of his but his FB is open to the public), he is clearly still married to his wife, ( he is 30, he married her when he was approx. 22). They are clearly still married as she tags him in a lot of, "to my wonderful husband," esque posts.

3. The others in the uni friendship group are not at all interested in reconnecting with her, but do agree that due to her MH they want this man reported. To whom, we're not sure, as he is not technically committing a crime at the moment. Her strange behaviour got worse after we graduated, and there were some very unpleasant incidents between the ages of 22-25 which caused the rest of the group to block her completely , ( falsely reporting group members to the RSPCA/ social services), after minor disagreements.

4. Everyone is right. I can't change her and will have to block her; but I do feel awful, when I know how abusive this man is.

However, a potential option is forwarding the screenshotted messages, ( which include threats), onto the police. Whilst I don't think he'll be taken to court, the embarrassment of the police, " having a word," might make him stop.

I think that's a great idea if you can leave it at that.
You will have passed on what could be useful information to the police because I am sure a lot of their time is spent trying to unravel the drama around those unfortunately affected with PD's.
Remind yourself that you have done everything you can and turn your attention to your own vulnerability.
Your friend really doesn't need you the way you might understand, and she will continue to have unbalanced/unfair relationships either with or without you in her life.

@daisydonkey you should forward the screenshots on to his wife.

Do you have kids? If so 100% cut off all contact now. You have no idea how far she can go.

If you feel some sense of responsibility, yes, talk to the police re her and the married guy.

do not not not wreck your life for her

Is there a little bit of you that likes hearing about all the drama in her life? She clearly has serious issues and is not a good friend back to you so what is it that you get out of the 'friendship'

Maybe the relationship would fall under coersive abuse to report to the police as he's threatening her & family in the messages you have been sent, though you'd expect the police would be able to access past messaging between them to find any further evidence.
She will likely deny it and try to stick up for the creep given her delusions about their relationship and would get rid of any evidence if he asks her so probable better not discussing reporting him with her. Could notify the local adult social care with concerns too.

I don't know much about the condition although possibly her parents also modelled this pattern of abuse in their relationship given the set up with vulnerable LD mum which has normalised this creeps behaviour to her.

As others with experience of condition have suggested setting out firm boundaries and rules seems sensible to see if makes any difference but I hope she doesn't know your current address and you've limited routes of contact that are blockable to reduce her opportunity for further harassment. Given past experiences I can see why the rest of your friendship group cut contact and that maybe only way to protect yourself from unnecessary stress & trouble she'd bring into your life.

It's sad as it not her choice to have EUPD or other MH issues that effect her behavior and MH care/social care has been underfunded for decades and is now is barely functioning so it's unlikely she's truly getting the help and support she needs. Sometimes lack of engagement with a service can be a reason to discharge from duty of care but may also be a feature of persons condition or illness.

You have got yourself way too involved in this and you will never be able to fix this. Trust me you won't be the only person she is leaning on ( I have long clinical experience).

You may feel that her actions are involuntary because of 'mental health' but to a large extent she chosing this behaviour. Her behaviour is rewarding because it is enabling her to get her needs met.

The only way forward would be if she desparately wants to change (which doesn't sound likely) AND she would need to be offered a full treatment program (again unlikely).

The best thing to do would be to refer her for Adult Safeguarding then block and go no contact. If you don't your relationship and your wellbeing will take the hit with no benefit for her.

You may think this sounds callous but at the moment you are enabling her behaviour so not helping at all. The only people who might be able to help to set boundaries are relevant professionals and/or the police the courts and the legal system.

Personally I admire your integrity and care not to just block her - she is clearly unwell and not just acting out. Previous posters have summarised the best next steps though.

Obviously nothing, she’s just being very kind to another very unwell human.

I don't think you can help this person at all.

You've known her for years and I don't see that you have ever been able to help her in any way.

She makes her choices and doesn't listen to what you say. She just uses you as an audience. This is not benefiting her.

With respect you are extremely niaive if you think you can help her.

She needs serious professional help.

How many hundreds of hours have you got spare for phone calls and going round and round in circles with her?

Your DH is 100% right.

You cannot help her. She has EUPD, this means no matter how hard you try, you will never perceive the world in the same way she does and nothing you do will to help her will ever be enough. You are interpreting the world rationally, she is not. She needs psychiatric support (I've worked in psych).

Its lovely that you care and want to support her but that should not be to the detriment of yourself. Your first responsibility is to yourself and your own boundaries. She is being abusive to you and others- the only solution here is to cut contact. The problem is- the more enmeshed you become in her world and her problems, the more invested she will become in expecting you to help her and the goal posts will be constantly changing so you'll never understand why she reacts so angrily and you will never be able to help her in the way she needs.

Cut contact. If you carry on down this road she will continue to act like this, it wont stop, and it will escalate. You can care about someone but recognise they arent healthy for you to have in your life, its not either/or. Cutting her off doesnt mean you hate or despise her, it means you are protecting your own healthy boundaries. You could of course continue, with firm boundaries but she has already shown multiple times that she isnt capable of respecting them so the choice is yours.

You can’t help her. Being in contact with her makes her life no better and yours much worse. A vague feeling of pity isn’t a good reason to maintain relations.

I'd report the man to the police. Coercive control is against the law, blackmail is against the law.

I'd put firm boundaries in place with her and if she doesn't comply you will have to block.

No need. Move along

He sounds like an utter arsehole but you havent seen her texts to him have you? she may well have threatened his wife, his family etc I am not excusing what he is doing in any way but she may have also made threats to him (this is highly likely if she has already reported your friends to RSPCA and SS just over minor disagreements) and if you report him to the police this will likely enrage her because he will assume it was her who did it and he may well also have threatening texts from her which could ger her into trouble as well. Stay out of this mess, it wont end well.

@daisydonkey you sound like a kind and concerned person. Unfortunately there are MH issues, there are PDs and there is just being a dick. I know several people with EUPD who are really lovely, albeit overwhelming to be around sometimes. Similarly, I’ve been wrongly diagnosed with EUPD before and was terrified of the stigma arising from people assuming I was just a horrible person because it can sometimes overlap with just being rubbish to others. I’ve since had the diagnosis changed by a psychiatrist who said I didn’t meet enough of the diagnostic criteria and the traits I did have were attributable to other stuff, mostly severe PTSD.

However, mental health or no mental health, I’m sorry but most of your friend’s behaviour sounds like “being an entitled dick” not having MH issues. Expecting others to pay your debts is not a symptom of EUPD. Demanding huge amounts of other peoples’ time when you’ve been told it’s affecting them is not a mental health issue - it can occur with mental health issues but it is not one and she’s being selfish for not trying to control it. Because I have a lot of life difficulties including abuse, and am quite clingy with a lack of object permanence, I will often actually ask friends to set firm boundaries so I don’t overwhelm them. I have one friend who just asks me not to contact her when she’s having a busy or difficult period and another lovely but even busier friend who has asked me to keep the number of messages down - as a result we have a pleasant exchange most days and I feel much more secure that she’s not going to want or need to break off the friendship.

There’s no sugarcoating it, especially for someone with EUPD, being left (in any capacity including relationships) is devastating. But people who have EUPD who aren’t entitled users will at least attempt to manage and improve their behaviour and at least periodically recognise their impact on others. My mother, who is incredibly abusive and controlling and may also have PDs, is really upset when I cut contact with her (I’m still in the leave/forced to go back cycle). I have no doubt that that distress is genuine, but unfortunately her behaviour has caused it, she has the ability to address the reasons behind that behaviour and doesn’t, and also I just don’t have the resources to deal with it (unlike my dad to whom it’s water off a duck’s back for unfathomable-to-me reasons). The demanding of excessive time and making you her emotional support animal (calling ten times a day is a LOT even by the standards of my relationship where both I and my DP affectionately tease each other for being clingy, and this is a brand new relationship and the calls are often just something like playing a game or watching something together) are excessive and entitled - not your job to run her life and that has nothing to do with MH problems, also if she needs help with her life that’s for SS and CMHT unless you offer to help. The past demands related to money are excessive and verging on delusional. I completely understand that you don’t want to walk away, admire your compassionate instincts and even without all of that you’re likely to get a lot of backlash from her if you need a time-out or want to reduce the friendship permanently. But you need your own oxygen mask on first, and even if you find that difficult to contemplate you need rest breaks and good treatment to be a good friend, just like an employee (shit analogy, but I’m tired).

TL:DR she may have MH issues and I admire you for sticking with her but she’s also an unpleasant person and you need to prioritise yourself.

You can't fix her. You can't change him. She wants/likes/needs this bad relationship. You are feeding her obsession by commenting on it.

Back away, thoroughly, or your health will suffer along with everything else in your life - work, partner, sleep, happiness.

@Yorkshirelass04 has been diagnosed with EUPD. This means she has a chaotic and callenging personality structure. She is not mentally ill in the way you suggest It's the nature of her personality that is the problem.

Block her. You can’t help someone like that OP, she’ll only cause you problems.

'She'

Ask yourself what good you think her being in contact is for her? I’m not sure that your being a friend still has made a huge difference to her. Since you can’t change her or how she behaves, I personally would just completely withdraw. You might feel guilty but I’m not sure it will make much difference anyway.

You say you aren’t responsibly for her and yet you seem to feel so.

Ffs she never said her DP had a problem with how long she spends online, or in fact that he even monitors it or pays attention to it.

He probably doesn't like being disturbed by midnight calls on weeknights, 10x calls to his partner a day disturbing whatever they are doing when it's for such drama. If her dp is anything like mine, he'll be thinking this woman is "using" his partner and taking advantage. More likely the OP has asked his advice and he's just said to block her.

Your response potentially says more about your controlling relationship than anything