Stuck between two warring family members. Very painful.

[Chaoticfuckpig]

My Dad (DF) brought my Sister DSis and I up alone because our lovely late mum was mentally unwell (and it was the 80s).

He was a lovely (undiagnosed ADHD) dad and did his best but of course, it was not perfect.

As my DSis has got older (now 40s) she has become increasingly bitter and angry towards our DF and it’s been hard to stay neutral because they often express their relationship issues to me but don’t make progress when they talk to each other because they’re both very explosive and prone to ‘splitting’.

I’ve received a lot of therapy over the years and it breaks my heart that every time there is a meet up/ family gathering/ funeral/ birth/ wedding my sister seems to orchestrate a scenario where our DF is hurt.

With the help of my psychotherapist, I very rarely talk to one about the other unless it’s very casual or superficial.

I do feel upset for our DF often, but know that I can’t call DSis out on this because she has her own reasons for finding his very existence offensive and I simply don’t want to get caught in the middle. She will probably cut me off if I express any kind of opinion so in order to stay on her good side and for my child to have an aunt, I just have to stay out of it.

DSis was invited to a huge holiday home that our dad rented for the family last autumn. When she arrived she was angry that our DF had chosen the location he had and was cold and snappy towards him the whole time.

This week she was planning to come back to the UK for 3 days (she lives in Sweden) before going travelling.

On Sunday my husband, child and I were due to travel to spend the day with her and our ex-step brother where she’s basing herself, have lunch and a catch up, then return home.

When she spoke to our DF to arrange to spend the day with him, she offered him the Friday but he told her he was working that day but could come on the Sunday when we are all due to be there. She didn’t want this and said she’d be seeing our aunt on Saturday and would prefer to see him on the Friday because she felt that he was only coming up to see me, my husband and wanted to see him one on one.

Eventually, he rang her back and she said she’d cancelled her flights and would just see us all together on Sunday but I’m now dreading her being all frosty and passive aggressive about this.

She and him don’t seem to be able to have a positive relationship with each other because of their communication styles and over sensitive natures.

He went to stay with her abroad and she took him all over her beautiful local area. They had one row because he was scared of her driving and it triggered a huge shouting match between them.

She said he just talked all the time about his new partner and was angry with him for not telling her that he was now a vegetarian because she had bought meat which would go to waste. He was hurt by this because he had thought they’d had a lovely time.

As far as I see it DSis gets extremely anxious about travel and family gatherings of any kind.

When she’s anxious, she’s incredibly spiky and unfriendly.

BUT because she sees herself as a very chilled out person, she doesn’t take responsibility or define herself in arguments every bit of friction is seen by heras everyone else’s fault but like all blind spots, if you don’t have anyone close to point these things out, you just carry on wreaking havoc in your relationships and feel like the victim.

Me and my DF have enjoyed an increasingly good relationship as I’ve got older and done ‘the work’ (to use a wanky phrase!) and me and my DSis have an increasingly good relationship since she’s been in therapy and we talk at length about how hard it was growing up without a mum, with lots of loss, with dramas between our DF and his partners. I feel finally that we are in a better place where we can acknowledge how hard it was, how well we’ve done to achieve what we have and we have a shared language now for our difficulties.

But these conflicts between them hurt me on a level that really affects me somatically. It makes me feel emotional that two people who I love so much constantly misunderstand each other.

Our DF is an old man. He won’t change into suddenly going to therapy or using words to navigate relationship issues. He is who he is and as I can see he’s a better person than he was and it’s his own pain from his childhood that causes him to be very defensive when met with my DSis’attacking manner and constant expectation that he will be warm and fluffy.

My DSis had it worse than me growing up because as soon as she was born 2 months premature our mum had extremely bad PND and tried to kill herself. She didn’t have that early attachment so necessary for brain development although our DF did all of the round the clock night feeds and took care of her.

It pains me because I feel that both my DF and my DSis are good people but I feel so protective of our DF when he’s confused by her attacks and kirt tone towards him.

It’s like she’s permanently trying to hurt him and he’s permanently feeling defensive so they don’t get anywhere.

Ultimately I know I can’t change any of this but I don’t know why it hurts me so much each time this happens and how I can move through it?

I was planning on getting loads done today but it’s upsetting and knocks me off kilter. Im now dreading next weekend and wonder if anyone has any advice about how I can possibly do anything to make it feel better?

Thank you if you got this far.

Excellent insights / perspectives @Poppity3 @Octavia64 @speakball

@Chaoticfuckpig are you able to acknowledge and accept without judgement your Dsis telling of her experience as it impacted and impacts her.....this is the first step in therapy that helped you - to be heard, understood and acknowledged?

Are you then able to tear yourself out of the piggy in the middle urge that you have to be responsible to fix this and ask who are you fixing it for? Maybe you DF is comfortable with his ‘take’ and his relationship with his DD right now?

Maybe there would be a different un-triangulated, authentic dynamic between them if you got out of the way implicitly as well as explicitly.

‘Detaching with love’ and dropping the rope would free up time, energy, emotional headspace to focus on more productive endeavours / reciprocal relationships in your life - and accept both DS and DF as the impacted and imperfect beings they might be - which is fine.....

I agree with you that he could be called those things but he is a very different person these days.

25 years ago he had a heart attack abd very nearly died. From this point on he has been as far as I can see gradually becoming healthier, kinder, fitter, more patient, given up smoking, drinking, drugs and bad relationships.

He happened to be developing emotionally whilst being a father and wasn’t the full perfect package when we were young.

He has expressed regret for how he was, what he did and didn’t do for us, albeit through partners which I find cowardly.

Maybe I should push him for a conversation about it myself.

It’s just that these days everyone seems to think that cutting people out is the answer to everything and I think that it speaks to a lack of forgiveness in our society and the dismantling of communities.

Yes he’s emotionally repressed and the chances of having a conversation on an emotional level with him are between fuck all and none.

It’s a tightrope for me to walk. My sister’s pain is completely and utterly legitimate. My dad’s pain is legitimate. My pain is legitimate.

I just don’t agree with upsetting people by expecting them to engage in the kind of cathartic yet triggering conversation I’ve had the privilege of being able to have.

I have compassion for all of us but no interest in hurting either of them by forcing them to engage in behaviours and communication styles they haven’t the ability or capacity to do.

Thank you for this. Do you think I should tell them both explicitly that I no longer wish to engage with any conversation whatsoever about the other?

Explain my reasoning?

Maybe I could leave social media and just take myself out of the picture all together maybe they’d make their way back to each other, maybe not?

Many people cut out other family members because they cannot cope with the pain of seeing them. It's actually surprisingly common - a book I read recently on it said that about a quarter of Americans had experienced it from one side or the other.

In an ideal world your dad would be able to express regret. In an ideal world your sister would be able to forgive.

But you don't live in an ideal world and they have not. It doesn't sound like either of them are likely to,

In which case it becomes about the impact on you.

What upsets you most?

If listening to either of them complain about the other upsets you, say so and ask to discuss something else.

If it's that you feel your sister "ought" to forgive then you may need to accept the world as it is, and maybe hope and pray that she will be able to but accept right now that she can't.

“Thank you for this. Do you think I should tell them both explicitly that I no longer wish to engage with any conversation whatsoever about the other?

Explain my reasoning?

Maybe I could leave social media and just take myself out of the picture all together maybe they’d make their way back to each other, maybe not?”

I think that’s a good approach. I think from your posts you see a victim and a villain (your DF as the victim and your DS as the villain) - maybe you are not conscious of that? I think both sense what you feel about each of them and either play up to it (your DF) or resist it (your DS).

I don’t think that you need to be between them. I think you are inadvertently blocking them finding their own conclusion - one that you might not like.

I would take time to observe the feeling of stress and despair in your body when stuff is going on regarding them - but I would let that feeling pass through like passing weather - I would make no judgement of it (apart from maybe this is my sad young child hopelessly pleading for a happy family) - I would take zero action and resist saying anything to either of them when feeling like this. I would consider this my preoccupation around a relationship between two people that has nothing to do with me - and work mindfully to detach from these preoccupations.

I would also consider avoiding being in their presence when they are both there (they might need you subs consciously as an audience / judge) if this triggers you.

If you don’t like hostile environments emotionally protect yourself by taking your self out of them.

Maybe consider them both very damaged individuals who are a work in progress- “hurt people, hurt people” - and be gracious that you are more emotionally healed and healthy than they are.