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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Former FWB is involved in decision-making around my promotion

26 replies

SublimeLime99 · 04/11/2023 11:35

I'm a regular, have name-changed. I had a casual fling with a colleague nearly a decade ago. More of FWB than anything serious, we slept together maybe three times over the course of about 18 months, went out and got drunk together and snogged a bit. We were both single at the time. Both now in committed relationships with other people, there's never been a recurrence.

There was never any expectation on either side that this would develop into a committed relationship (for multiple reasons, not only because we worked together), no-one's heart got broken. All that said, we were fond of each other and it was still, in the nature of these things, a bit tricky in the aftermath going back to a "professional" relationship. We were a bit spiky with one another at work for a bit etc. During this aftermath period, this person told our boss about private discussions we had had while seeing each other which had a direct impact on my pay and advancement. Essentially this information delayed an earlier promotion (I've since made the promotion and it's all water under the bridge). I confronted him and he completely denied he had done this but he was the only person who knew these details so he is the only person who could have told her.

Things are now very normal, professional and cordial: we work well together and occasionally socialise outside work with our partners. No friction at all, never discussed and officially no one at work knows we had a fling (though I think a couple of people suspect). But it's certainly not an ongoing HR or work culture problem.

That said, I fundamentally don't trust this guy to be objective about professional decisions which affect me: he is ruthlessly ambitious, I know he has form for stitching me up and would probably do it again if he thought he needed to.

I'm now going for a promotion at work and have learned that he will be one of 2 or 3 people who decide if I am promotion ready. I had a meeting with my boss last week during which she said this guy would be really central to this process and I should use him as a resource and ask questions about the process.

I'm fundamentally not comfortable doing this. I'm absolutely fine rubbing along with this guy professionally but I don't trust him to have my best interests at heart in relation to a promotion. I need to convey to my boss that I would prefer him not to be involved in decision-making about my promotion, but I don't want to have to tell her why. I don't think the fact we had a fling in itself would be an issue, there's nothing in our work rules which prohibits this, other people have dated at work etc. I just think it would lead to probing by my boss about his character, her seeking to defend him and me looking like a paranoid troublemaker. She is very big on work culture and wanting senior people all to work together harmoniously (which is a good thing) and will need to know what my reasons are for asking him no to be involved. I just don't want to open this can of worms.

Do I just suck it up and accept that he will play a part in this? Or is there another way of dealing with it? We don't in practice have an HR team (we do, but they are in another site and are pretty ineffectual and don't know the history) so I would basically have to speak to my boss or keep quiet and accept whatever happens.

OP posts:
PierceMorgansChin · 04/11/2023 13:09

You my as well tell your boss. If you think few people suspect you were sleeping together, this usually means EVERYONE knows and you've been gossiped about for months. Lovers in work place always think they are discreet lol

SublimeLime99 · 04/11/2023 13:16

@PierceMorgansChin

I agree, but as I said in my OP it's not the affair per se which is the issue, its the fact that he bad-mouthed me to her during or immediately afterwards.

The fact we were sleeping together was as you say probably widely suspected but no one (other than he and her) knows he talked about me in an annual review like that. I can't prove it, I'm pretty sure my boss will deny it and if it gets back to him that I've raised it it will really piss him off.

OP posts:
NeunundneunzigHorseBallonz · 04/11/2023 13:19

If she is big on everyone getting along, I think you need to keep quiet about it. I would talk to him and let him know that you intend to go for this promotion and you hope that he can be objective this time. (And pick his brains too.)

Aprilx · 04/11/2023 13:36

You should keep quiet and hope for the best, it was ten years ago after all.

Nobody gets a say in who decides upon their promotion, pay rise or whatever, by the very nature of it, those people are senior to you in the organisation so you don't get to select who is involved.

If you feel this guy being in a position of influence is going to limit your career, then you probably need to move employers and keep everything professional at the new place.

Epidote · 04/11/2023 13:41

By how you describe him I think he will be badmouthing you or anyone else. I think the fact you had something in the past wont necessarily affect him being ruthless etc.

Talipesmum · 04/11/2023 14:02

At my work we’d be encouraged to declare a conflict of interest and shouldn’t have people with past relationships like this being involved in promotion or pay discussions. That’s the route I’d take - it should be a declared conflict of interest, whether or not he’s going to be more negative or more positive towards you. And as such he shouldn’t be involved in the discussions.

SublimeLime99 · 04/11/2023 15:15

Talipesmum · 04/11/2023 14:02

At my work we’d be encouraged to declare a conflict of interest and shouldn’t have people with past relationships like this being involved in promotion or pay discussions. That’s the route I’d take - it should be a declared conflict of interest, whether or not he’s going to be more negative or more positive towards you. And as such he shouldn’t be involved in the discussions.

The thing is that doing that would draw attention to it. It would become a "thing"... (which it hasn't been for years). He would find out he had been conflicted out and would demand to know why etc. It would massively magnify what is at present a fairly trivial thing and make it public and inflammatory.

I agree with you in general principle. But in practice I just can see that antagonising everyone and disadvantaging me.

OP posts:
burnoutbabe · 04/11/2023 15:18

won;t it look worse for him? he is not declaring any interest and still doing these promotion reviews, with some bias?

SublimeLime99 · 04/11/2023 15:36

burnoutbabe · 04/11/2023 15:18

won;t it look worse for him? he is not declaring any interest and still doing these promotion reviews, with some bias?

The thing is though the fling we had is completely old news, not an issue for either of us and most of the people we work with have either forgotten it ever happened or have joined since it happened. So if I made it into a formal conflict of interest it would seriously piss him off and turn it into a massive source of gossip. I'm not even sure my boss ever knows it happened, so if she doesn't I would be needlessly putting it on her radar.

The issue which is likely to cause the bias isn't the fling it's the stuff he said in the performance review. Which I can't prove and he (more senior, male) is more likely to be believed than I am.

Either way, doing this would be hugely inflammatory and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't come out of it well.

OP posts:
LizzieBananas · 04/11/2023 15:38

Surely it’s a conflict even if he’s just an old friend. Make small talk at interview that absolutely shows the rest of the panel you know each other

SublimeLime99 · 04/11/2023 15:39

Aprilx · 04/11/2023 13:36

You should keep quiet and hope for the best, it was ten years ago after all.

Nobody gets a say in who decides upon their promotion, pay rise or whatever, by the very nature of it, those people are senior to you in the organisation so you don't get to select who is involved.

If you feel this guy being in a position of influence is going to limit your career, then you probably need to move employers and keep everything professional at the new place.

I think you're right. I can't see any upside to making it formal.

I am pretty sure he wouldn't do anything to deliberately sabotage my career. We basically get on OK. I just know he could potentially use vulnerabilities I showed as reasons not to promote me and I don't trust him.

OP posts:
SublimeLime99 · 04/11/2023 15:41

LizzieBananas · 04/11/2023 15:38

Surely it’s a conflict even if he’s just an old friend. Make small talk at interview that absolutely shows the rest of the panel you know each other

Everyone knows we're old friends (not just us, there's a wider friendship group). All of us know each other really well and the senior team go back 10 years and we've all socialised outside work together and that's widely known. It's a fairly small company. No one would expect us not to know one another...

OP posts:
burnoutbabe · 04/11/2023 15:44

just move companies i suppose if you don't trust him, "your friend" to actually do a proper performance review. thats the issue with small companies really. or just move if you don't get this promotion, if you are sure its him blocking it?

Nauticalthemedloo · 04/11/2023 16:00

I just know he could potentially use vulnerabilities I showed as reasons not to promote me .....exactly! because you were with him in a non-professional capacity you showed him these - this is exactly why he shouldn't be a decision maker. You have to declare a conflict of interest if you want a fair decision on your promotion.

I wouldn't trust him as he's revealed information you shared privately already in work.

I understand he won't be happy not least as he should have been the one declaring the conflict of interest himself.

SublimeLime99 · 04/11/2023 16:01

burnoutbabe · 04/11/2023 15:44

just move companies i suppose if you don't trust him, "your friend" to actually do a proper performance review. thats the issue with small companies really. or just move if you don't get this promotion, if you are sure its him blocking it?

It's a totally hypothetical promotion at the moment: I'm not sure if he's even aware that I'm going for it so it's not a case of him "blocking" anything. Even if he did want to interfere I'm pretty sure it would be far subtler than him blocking anything.

I've not said he's my friend either. We are cordial and sometimes socialise at work gatherings. But he's not what I'd classify as a a friend.

I think this thread is really helpful actually as it's really clarified in my mind that my best course of action is to do nothing.

OP posts:
Thisisworsethananticpated · 04/11/2023 16:08

I’d rather not have xx involved in this decision making ?

why they will ask

because I believe there is a conflict of interest
and a potential confidentiality breach

if they dig further I guess you can say say that due to a long ago Liason , you knew that he used information that was shared in confidence and he used it to discredit you professionally

Thisisworsethananticpated · 04/11/2023 16:10

Jus saw you won’t do anything !
thats probably better
but keep a close eye

ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees · 04/11/2023 16:27

If I was your boss and you came to me about this I would be perplexed.

You slept with a colleague 3 times ten years ago. Managed to work together without issue since then and now you decide that it is having an impact in the workplace.

If any two consenting adult colleague think it's a good idea to sleep together fine but I would have zero interest in dealing with ant fallout or complaints. I would think it was in the best interests of the company for one if you to leave if there's any issues.

If you are good enough for a promotion you will get it. If not, it will not just be down to the fact you had a going with him ten years ago.

Eleganz · 04/11/2023 17:28

I'd want to be made aware of any potential conflict of interest regardless of the timeline.

In my workplace having someone making promotion decisions about someone they had previously had a romantic or sexual relationship without declaring a conflict on interest could easily be seen as misconduct if not gross misconduct. I would also expect that following a declaration of conflict of interest that person would be recused from the decision making process.

Shows you the difference in ethical standards in different industries.

SublimeLime99 · 04/11/2023 17:40

@Eleganz

Shows you the difference in ethical standards in different industries.

It really does. And in a perfect ethical world I think it is something which should be made transparent and he should be recused from any part in the decision making process. In my company and my industry, though, the realpolitik of it would be that reopening something like this which is very much "closed" as far as the company is concerned would be regarded as me stirring up trouble.

It's made me think a lot about the ethics of this situation. If he had treated me really badly or there had been sexual harassment or something it would have been very clear cut and I'd have been properly supported. But it's not really. The thing he did to make me distrust him wasn't really connected to our sexual relationship, it was a breach of trust in relation to discussing salaries (basically I had been offered another job somewhere else, told him the salary and he then went back to my boss and claimed I'd used that as a negotiation tactic to get more money in this job). The breach of trust on his part wasn't really to do with the fact he'd had a sexual relationship, he just happened to know the salary stuff because we'd had a sexual relationship.

The thing is if I raise the issue it will immediately be assumed that he took advantage of me sexually or romantically, which is not the case. I will look vindictive and spiteful and like I still have an issue with him or a hangup. All our colleagues will think poorly of me, his partner will hate met etc. It almost certainly won't help me get the job.

Tricky one.

OP posts:
Needaholi · 04/11/2023 17:49

I'd keep quiet and see what happens. You may well get the promotion and you'll be glad you didn't say anything. His reputation is at stake too here so he might be better not to sabotage things for you.

TammyJones · 05/11/2023 11:51

Aprilx · 04/11/2023 13:36

You should keep quiet and hope for the best, it was ten years ago after all.

Nobody gets a say in who decides upon their promotion, pay rise or whatever, by the very nature of it, those people are senior to you in the organisation so you don't get to select who is involved.

If you feel this guy being in a position of influence is going to limit your career, then you probably need to move employers and keep everything professional at the new place.

Totally my gut feeling.
It's always a bad idea to get involved with someone at.
In my last job , without fail , everyone who did this , one of them mysteriously left/ went to different place of work within the company/ retired ( never because they were together- yes sure 😆)
Bringing this up now would not help at all and probably be another nail....

MaxTalk · 05/11/2023 17:06

Never shit in your own backyard, you will step on the crap at some point.

Change jobs.

RantyAnty · 05/11/2023 17:26

Are you sure there isn't a better opportunity with more money at another company?

Zanatdy · 05/11/2023 17:40

Yeah I’d keep quiet as it’s probably your best bet. Really is crap he’s on the panel but guess at small companies it’s inevitable. We have to declare if we know people, and I had someone mention to me they’d rather not X person be interviewing them, so I said she’s within her rights to ask for the person to be changed. And it was, without fuss. The person meant to be interviewing thought she had pulled out, I just said oh I’m not sure, not sure if she found out she’d asked for her not to be on the interview panel. She didn’t get the job anyway but I know the person taken off the panel didn’t rate her, and it would have been quite unfair