Was this abuse?

[CaramelShortcakes]

Ive was told recently by someone that my ex is abusive for things that happened during our relationship but I dont think he was so just Wanted opinions on what other people thought.

He suffered from a Serious mental illness (wasnt the case when we met) towards the end of our relationship, he would accuse me of all sorts of things like not being a real person, saying i was ‘sent’ into his life to have his children to trick him and that i was getting paid for having them, accused my family of not really being my family, said they was actors, said my house was a tv studio and refused to see the kids because he didn’t want to come here because it was a ‘tv studio.’ He said anything he said at my house people he knew back home would know about it so he was “obviously being filmed.” He told me I was sent into his life to trick him/ trap him. Didnt want to see the kids and went years without seeing them and said some awful nasty stuff about them not just me, he told me to never contact him again and that i only want him to see the kids because i ”have no family” (i dont have a good relationship with them) and why should he see them, plenty of fathers dont see their kids (his words) and that he wants nothing to do with them and never will be a father to them. I was pregnant with our youngest and he didnt see her at all till she was over a year old. Anyway he is medicated now, he was sectioned a few times i know of and I was contacted by the police one of the times he was sectioned due to things he was saying which he went on to deny. It was out of the blue and we hadn’t been in contact for a long time at that point.

This was a few years ago he doesnt really see the kids but does occasionally contact asking to see them (which he has but never sticks to it) but since then someone told me he is abusive and dangerous and I should not have allowed him to be in the kids lives. He usually pops up once a year or so asking to see them but never really hangs around for long, I think too much time has passed where he didn’t see them and there is no bond on both sides, his medication also makes it difficult for him to care for them (he doesn’t have them alone) I posted this on another group and was told it definitely wasn’t abusive at all and just down to his mental illness which is what I felt as well but now I’m confused.

Anyone ?

It sounds like he has really bad mental health issues and if I could I would keep him out of the kids lives forever. No-one needs that trauma or an unreliable sperm donor dicking them around. Stay well clear.

I don't think he was intentionally abusive as he was out of control but the consequences were probably traumatic for you so I am very sorry you had to deal with that. Thank god you are away from it. I would go NC forever at least until the kids have grown up.

Go and live your best life despite him.

Much love 💕

I think it sounds like schizophrenia and he wont be the consistent dad, but not abuse. But you’ve done well as the ability to be a great dad ain’t there.

Sounds like he had psychotic episodes, a serious mental health condition. A member of my family had a psychotic episode and was totally out of touch with reality. Thought the house was bugged, that we were all extras in a film, that films had been remade in the ‘wrong order’
It was awful for them and those of us watching them suffer. It took hefty medication and LOTS of therapy to lead a normal life again. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy 😟

Thanks yes its schizophrenia, he has to have injections he told me he will need to have them for life not sure how accurate that is.

Yes this is exactly it, he thought he was part of a Tv show, he kept mentioning derren brown playing tricks on him.

I am a mental health nurse. He has a psychotic illness which is a severe mental disorder. It sounds like he is prescribed injectable antipsychotics which can be given monthly, if he continues to accept the treatment he will hopefully stay well but may relapse at times. This is a life long illness. The behaviour you describe when you were together indicates that he was responding to his psychotic ideas rather than deliberately being abusive. I suspect he will continue to flit in and out of your children's lives at a superficial level.

Trying to decide if something 'is abuse or not' isn't productive. If someone has been attacked by dogs (for example) in the past, then repeatedly exposing them to dogs, despite their discomfort, would be abusive. But exposing a person to dogs isn't abusive, per se.

It's all about how the recipient feels. So, we have universal 'abuse' examples, like violence (because nobody enjoys it) and name calling (because nobody enjoys it) and non-consensual sex (because nobody enjoys it), but you have your own list of abuse; we all do: it's things that repeatedly cross your clearly stated boundaries.

You are the only one who knows if he is abusive to you. Did he repeatedly cross your clearly stated boundaries?

I think intention is very much a factor in deciding whether someone’s behaviour is abusive or not.

By my own definition, and this is something I’ve thought about quite a bit in the last year since my marriage broke down, abuse is intentionally using power over another to control their behaviour for your own benefit, when it is detrimental to them.

It sounds like he wasn’t in control, so while I wouldn’t class it as abuse it must have been pretty terrifying.

Thank you, this is helpful. He did mention injections and needing to take them for the rest of his life. The medication must be very strong as anytime he has seen the children he just falls asleep, and the children aren’t interested in him anymore. Sad really as he was only 30 when this started happening. I just hope he stays on them as it was a very scary time. He turned up at my house once after months of not speaking to him in the middle of the night claiming his parents (who had both passed away years before I met him) was in my house. Someone on MN told me he was abusive so I thought maybe I had been in denial about it but he really wasn’t in control of his behaviour and definitely wasn’t intentional so as I thought not abusive.

@Didsomeonesaydogs

I think intention is very much a factor in deciding whether someone’s behaviour is abusive or not

Yes, but what difference does it make? If they insist on continuing to do something that bothers you to the extent that you think it might be abuse, their mindset isn't really the salient point to consider. It's all about whether you yourself decide to stick around for more, and if so, why?

@Watchkeys I didn't say it should make a difference in deciding whether someone's behaviour is acceptable and if those on the receiving end of it should continue to put up with it.

@Didsomeonesaydogs

I didn't say you did. I questioned the relevance, from OP's point of view, of the point you made, as it could easily steer an abuse victim down an unhealthy path.

Intention isn't magic - a smashed window is still smashed, a punched face is still bruised, the person verbally or emotionally abused is still hurt, a neglected child is still let down, etc etc.

Obviously being severely mentally ill means the person might not be able to control their behaviour and is deserving of compassion - but it doesn't mean the impact on people affected is any less nor that abusive behaviour is somehow not abusive any more.

I think if someone mistreats you it is abuse regardless of intent or mental capacity

It doesn’t matter if it is intentional or not, you remove yourself (or your children) from the situation to avoid the harm caused.

I used to tie myself up in mental
knots trying to work out if my exhusband had been abusive or if he intended to be but with the clarity of hindsight I realise it doesn’t matter, his behaviour made me and the children unhappy so leaving was the right thing to do.

I think where intent becomes relevant is where there is a chance of reconciliation or an ongoing relationship as if there was intent then the chances of behavioural change are very small, if it was due to a treatable illness change is possible.

I think if someone mistreats you it is abuse regardless of intent or mental capacity

The decision about whether you're being mistreated or not is often the problematic one, though. It's very obvious in some cases (like the ones where you google 'types of abuse', but, for example, I had a friend whose new boyfriend used to stroke her arm very softly, kindly. She didn't like it, because it's what her childhood abuser used to do before abusing her, so she asked him to stop. She didn't tell him why. He said he wasn't doing anything wrong, and carried on.

Fortunately, my friend has excellent boundaries, and left him, but you can see how it might be unclear, in some circumstances, whether someone is being mistreated or not. Softly stroking your girlfriends arm isn't abusive, but continuing to touch her in a way she's asked you not to is totally disrespectful. It can be unclear to many whether they were being mistreated or not; it was for me, for a long time, and took me quite a lot of expensive counselling to realise that it can be the disrespect, rather than the action, that's abusive.

@Watchkeys that's an amazing example, really eye opening.

Giving someone a lift home from a night out is another example of something that seems innocent and the sort of thing a good partner would do, but might be him controlling how long his girlfriend goes out for. It can be really subtle and insidious.

It helped me to understand, @Didsomeonesaydogs !

I also think that, if someone is treating you in a way that you don't like, due to mental health issues, then that doesn't mean you have to like it or put up with it or feel any differently about it. It might mean that they need to deal with it differently, but that's their responsibility. Your responsibility is you, and your own well being, and making sure you surround yourself with people who treat you respectfully, at the very least.

Yes, @Yetanothernamechangeagain , insidious is a great word for it. It can be so hard to tell.

Absolutely agree with all of this. Well articulated.