Inappropriate manager advice?

[khlomoney]

Any advice on handling this?

I feel like my manager is unusual. He does F all at work but is simultaneously really nice. When I raise issues with him, he tends to side step (empty promises, lip service) then ask questions about me, my life outside of work, my family etc to “get to know me better.”

Nothing changes with the actual issues I raise unless I do absolutely everything myself (including going to his manager or finding external support). This is why I feel he does F all at work, as problems occurred under him and he does nothing to rectify.

I’m in my 20s and he’s 20 years older, he constantly tells me how speaking to me makes him realise how old he’s become and tangents about his personal life with the expectation I share too. I’m starting to feel like our meetings together turn into just questions about my life. Most managers I have had couldn’t care less what I’m doing outside of work, so it’s weird for me. How would you navigate this, baring in mind he’s due to leave his role in a few months?

It as sounds as though he has totally checked out from work, and if he is constantly telling you personal stuff and asking you personal questions, both of which take you away from your work instead of supporting it, then he sounds at best like deadwood and at worst like a creep. Doing what you are already doing (going to his manager or finding external support) sounds like the right approach. If he is leaving the role soon that is a good thing, but nevertheless if he oversteps certain boundaries you may need to considering calling him on it or escalating. Hopefully he will not, and will then be gone in a few months.

I’m taking this from a manager perspective - he could be wanting to get to know his team members better?
That said though some of the things you said does blur the lines slightly…..

If I’m being honest, I feel like he’s tapping the water to see if I’m interested in something more. He’s shared his entire dating history (life history in general!) and he’s asked me to share but I tend to change subject. I think he’s noticed I do this now.

But then again, he might be like this with everyone as he’s definitely “casual” ie sentences scattered with “fuck” or “dickhead”. In team meetings he will say things like “I’m not whoring myself out” or “games of Chinese whispers”. He’s outspoken eg “I have no idea what X team actually do all day”. He always brings his kids on camera too - think regular meeting interludes to say hi, and just general tangents of a play by play of his life.

hope my next manager is better but imagine I end up with someone who does F all and is also horrible?

@khlomoney if you do your job and do it well, and make sure you develop your skills and get appropriate visibility, then if you do end up with someone new who also does F all and is also horrible, maybe you will get the last laugh by getting promoted and becoming their successor.

I can’t lie, if the job is posted for all to apply for I might go for it! It’s just hard to navigate my current role with my current manager, he really is fucking useless and I’m not surprised no one tried to keep him on longer.

It sounds like the problem is shortly going to solve itself. If you think you can meet the role requirements, why not go for it?

It sounds like he was promoted beyond his capabilities, which often happens in organisations with a less than ideal recruitment process. Hopefully the decision makers on his replacement will be more on the ball!

In the meantime, just grit your teeth and hang on.

I guess I’m trying to get myself in good steed with his replacement. I have real issues with visibility as there’s disparity between my team and the other team my manager leads. Ultimately he should sort it as he’s been aware of issues for over a year, but he always tries to make it my problem to solve when it sits with him as a line manager. So this disconnect will exist when the new manager comes in, and I don’t want them to think I’m the issue. I’ve been trying.

Sorry I think I’m being vague, the issues I’m raising with him are things people have left the team over. Including the person in post before me.

If he's asking you personal questions, can you not just say "oh, think we're getting off-track here - the agenda for this meeting was [blah blah] / I've got such and such a task planned next, so if we're done with the meeting, I'll start that now" or otherwise end the conversation?

@category12 thanks! I do try that but he gets a bit huffy now. He said something like “I’m just trying to get to know you” the last time (Friday!)

Also is this thread better here or in the Work board?

He probably fancies you a bit, and is being chatty/personal to see if you will open up to him.

As you have been doing until now - just continue to be professional, and the problem will resolve itself in a few months.

Just ask his manager about applying. You're well qualified, since you know what needs doing and are proactive.

Why does he want to know personal details though and why does he want to know anything if he's leaving soon?

This is actually such a good point that didn’t initially cross my mind - why is he trying to get to know me when we won’t work together for much longer? He’s clearly checked out of the role in other ways so why the interest in me?

Well, the answer is because he's a creep! A lazy creep as well.

its really pissing me off today. Feel completely undermined but also that no one will support me if I go over his head. I think I’m going to end up disengaged and applying for jobs sooner than anticipated

When's he leaving? Is the rest of the package worth sticking it out until he departs? (Has he definitely put in his resignation/retirement?)

Does it matter if he's huffy?

After all, what's his beef going to be - you didn't want to discuss personal matters and want to get on with your work? I know it's uncomfortable if someone has the arse with you, but just ignore and be upbeat but professional in response.

If he is trying to get into your knickers, it's better you enforce boundaries and ignore his grumbling here, than you go along with the erosion of professional and personal.

He sounds sleazy and like he doesn't give a fuck anymore about anything.
Wants to leave with a bang (!)
I didn't know that Chinese whisper is offensive.

He is covering up his lack of engagement with work & apathetic management with sleazy personal chat. You do not need to share anything with him - he is just buying time & trying to convince you he cares. He doesn’t- if he did he would support you better in your job.

It’s weird because I feel conflicted over going directly to his manager because he is so “nice”. Almost like I should give him a chance to resolve things himself, plus I don’t want to end up looking like a troublemaker if his manager doesn’t see my side

He is not being nice. He at best being tone-deaf, inconsiderate and lazy, and at worst (and more likely) he is also a creep.

Your concern about looking like a troublemaker may be more valid, but unless your manager is buddy-buddy with his own manager, that is probably manageable if you are careful with the tone you take when approaching his manager. If you are asking them for advice for how to get your job done (the sort of advice your actual manager should probably be providing, or rendering unnecessary by doing his job properly), without directly dissing or complaining about your own manager, they may notice that you are being diplomatic and also persistent in getting your work done effectively. Both of which are good qualities for a future manager to have ...

Leave.

our meetings together turn into just questions about my life

Because he's trying to distract you form the central issue by getting you to talk about things you care about, he thinks he will stroke your ego if he seems interested in you and you'll be quiet if you become 'friends' or feel sorry for him, and because he may have an inappropriate, unprofessional interest in you. I think it's more likely to be the first two in this instance.

I've had a manager who was cloyingly sweet with me at the beginning. In my case, it was an information gathering exercise or useful titbits of information she might use later. Those people are sly and you should be very guarded as to what you reveal to such people.

no one will support me if I go over his head

Behaviours like his are almost always enabled by the person above them. Sometimes the rot goes right up to the top of the organisation, as top people tend to hire other top people in their own image.

Also, please learn there is a difference between being polite, having lovely manners and conversational talent, and being an ethically decent person. Many people get this wrong because it's confusing behaviour as people naturally associate aggressive behaviour with threat. Unfortunately, it enables manipulative people to get away with all sorts.

Look at his actions, or lack thereof, not his words.

Eugh met so many guys like this in my 20s at work. He’s a sleaze.
If he’s leaving soon, try to work around him. Do you have to speak to him at all? If he’s putting the meetings in, try to get out of them.
It’s difficult when you’re young and trying to make a career, shame they don’t try this bs on us older ladies !
The older me would escalate this type of behaviour to his manager, to HR. The younger me squirmed and tried to handle it.
If he is leaving though, just find ways around it, if you really don’t want to escalate

If he says it again "I'm just trying to get to know you" then respond with "I appreciate that but I'm a very private person and prefer not to share much about my personal life."

Quite honestly if he keeps pushing it I'd remind him you won't be working together much longer so there's little value in him getting to know much more about you.