Toxic relationship with my mum

[Outdoormumof2]

I am having a hard time atm with my relationship with my mother! Basically we have recently moved closer and she comes over to my house to help me out, sometimes with childcare, sometimes with cleaning etc. The problem I have is although I am unbelievably thankful and grateful, if I make comment or say anything she doesn’t like she is very reactive! E.g. she came in and did some washing for me while I was at work and put some expensive items of clothing in the drier which are now ruined! When I approached her about it, she got very cross, saying I was ungrateful and that I should just be thankful for all the help. She then started saying how my partner was lazy and should tidy up more (we both work 50+ hour weeks and had a cleaner before we moved, which she insisted we don’t need now!).

She then started to list all the things she has bought for my children (her grandchildren) stating that I should just replace the items of clothing because it’s less money than she payed on stuff for my kids!

I now feel like I am walking on egg shells in my own home because I feel if my response to any help given isn’t 100% gratitude then I am going to cause upset!

Am I being overly sensitive and ungrateful or am I well justified to make comment if I would prefer something to be done slightly differently (e.g. ask for certain clothes not to go in the drier)?

she sounds super defensive. She could have apologised. Perhaps it’s better she doesn’t do the washing now. Do you pay her or does she just do it to be helpful? I’d sit down with her when things have calmed and tell her you’re very grateful for the help, you just wanted to point out certain clothing items can’t be dried and they are expensive so maybe best she doesn’t do the washing. Ask her again if she’s still sure she’s happy with this arrangement as doesn’t really sound like it. Maybe best to go back to paid help

Don’t walk on eggshells.
Tell your dm that you appreciate her kindness however she doesn’t need to do your cleaning.
Get a cleaner again.

Get her key off her.

Get a cleaner.

Though it sounds very much like moving close was a bad idea.

Moving closer was a mistake,

Her behaviour has been deliberate and not kind. Her help is anything but, did you ask her to do any childcare or cleaning?. I would also think you’ve been conditioned and or otherwise trained to feel super grateful she is doing this at all. N

Ruining your clothes was a deliberate act on her part. She knew what she was doing here. I would now ask for her key back and if she refuses change the locks. She is not an emotionally safe enough person for you or your kids to be around ask you should all stay away from her. If she’s too difficult/toxic for you to deal with it’s the same deal for your kids too.

What was she like when you were growing up?. I would think the relationship you had back then was not ideal either and she has not changed in all the years since.

Get a cleaner in now. Your mother is clearly also unsuited to be doing chores or childcare in your home. She cannot be trusted nor relied upon.

I had offered to pay her but she didn’t want paying! She just wants to be helpful and I appreciate that but I don’t think it will work if the conditions are that I have to react with only thanks and put in a position where I can’t make polite reasonable requests without it blowing out of proportion into an argument 🤦‍♀️

@AttilaTheMeerkat
it was very much the same when I grew up, I moved out at 16 because it was too stressful. Again she always meant well but would fly off the handle at tiny little things! Our relationship has been so much better since having my children as she has focused more on them but I don’t feel I can make any comment on anything without it being taken the wrong way then having a list of all the stuff she has done for me, thrown back in my face 🤷‍♀️
I have being having counselling for generalised anxiety disorder and when I mentioned it to DM she took offence that I was blaming my upbringing because I had said that I can’t cope with screaming arguments!
I really want to have a positive relationship with her but struggle to see how to navigate it!

Why do you think she has been helpful here?.

She does not want to be helpful; she just wants to come into your home, have a nose around your things and undermine you into the bargain. In addition she has ruined some of your nice clothes and I maintain that was a deliberate act on her part. If you had done that to her she would make you pay dearly mentally. Your mother is not an emotionally safe enough person to be at all around.

Is your dad still in your life; I ask only as he is not mentioned at all.

I had a mother who wanted to
Help, but then I realised it was interference. Not helpful at all. I
Was expected to be appreciative of everything, however badly it was done, and whether I wanted it done or not, set the boundaries with your mother. Even hide the washing which you wish to do properly yourself (as I do). Does she come in when you are at work - I would stop that and suggest you get your cleaner again!

She's never meant well and never sought the necessary help.

You moved out at 16 because of her behaviour. And I see without much surprise that she is doing the time honoured, "look at all the things I've done for you" so beloved of toxic parents. Her best was not good enough and she has made you the scapegoat for all her inherent ills.

It is not possible to have ay sort of a healthy relationship with someone this disordered of thinking and her behaviour too is likely to be having a further detrimental impact on your mental health. You need to keep her away from your children going forward because she could all too easily harm them in not too dissimilar ways as to how you've been harmed by her. Toxic people more often than not become toxic as grandparent figures as well.

You also need to put your mother on a strict information diet now because things like counselling that you've mentioned get thrown back at you. I know about GAD and CBT can be helpful in this respect.

Attila has given you great advice OP. This woman does not mean well. Your story is ringing bells for me. I remember as a teenager finally having saved enough to buy a white fine-knit cotton sweater (I was given very little money as a child), and spreading it out on my bed to admire it. I went out later and when I came back it wasn't there. My "mother" had taken it to wash (it was brand new and spotless) because she "thought" that was why I had left it there. She had pegged it on the clothes line by the bottom of the 2 side seams at the hip and it stretched completely out of shape. I was gutted but not allowed to be annoyed with her because she was "only trying to help". Needless to say she didn't offer to replace it.

When my children were small, she sometimes came to stay and would take it upon herself to "help". For weeks after we would be hunting for important things and finding them in the most ridiculous places - places she wouldn't keep similar things in her own home. When I asked her to check with me where things should go, she would get all upset "I do everything wrong" or might mutter an apology "sorry but how would I know where you keep things, I'm just trying to help". If I tried to explain that her "help" was making my life more difficult, she would snarl at me "I said I'm sorry". Then do the same next time. She would also "help" by checking things in my children's rooms; when I think back now I had no privacy as a child and she was demonstrating the same behaviour with my children.

Unfortunately for me (and my children) I didn't realise that she was actually abusive, as opposed to being just difficult, until I was over 50. I now know she is a covert narcissist, which is possibly the worst type as the abuse is generally behind closed doors. I have been in therapy for the last 2 years and have come a long way, but the one thing I seriously struggle with is that I couldn't see her abuse for what it was for so very long and I feel guilty for the horrendous effect it had on my own family.

You, OP, are younger than I was when I started to realise about this behaviour. Please don't suffer it any longer. It is abusive, she is gaslighting you, she thinks she knows best so won't listen to what you want, she doesn't actually know how to love you and for some reason she wants to cause you pain. This is not about you, there is something wrong with her, probably emotional damage from her own childhood, but if she doesn't think there's anything wrong she will not change - and she doesn't think there's anything wrong, she thinks your attitude is the problem.

Get a new cleaner in no matter what she says and restrict her access to your children, also put her on a strict information diet. Sorry about your experience, it's hell.

I'd highly recommend the Insight - Exposing Narcissm podcasts, they've been eye opening for me. You could start with Episode 46 Narcissistic Parent = Narcissistic Grandparent. Also have a look at the Stately Homes thread here, wonderful support available.

You may want a positive relationship but it doesn’t sound like she knows how to have one of those.

Nobody on here can know whether she ruined the clothing on purpose. Do you think it was deliberate op?

Turn this problem on its head.
What interactions DO go well?
Accept her for who and how she is, and focus on what (if anything) does work.

That's probably going to mean getting a cleaner, for a start, and acquiring a certain carapace.

"I don't want to be cross at you because you shrunk my nice stuff and then had a huff, Mum, I want us to have nice times together. I value you for you, not a home help!"

This last may or may not be a little disingenuous, but call it diplomacy if it works!

People can be very flawed and still parents. But we can't really change them! so ya gotta find how do what works for you.

OP you need to get distance big time. But how to do it ?

She told you that you don’t need a cleaner! But it’s not up to her! If I were you I would tell her you are reinstating a cleaner so you won’t need her help. So then you can ask for the key back at the same time! If she baulks say you need it for the cleaner you’ve already arranged (even if you haven’t) and you’re usually in so there’s no need for her to have one. Do it quickly and nonchalantly so she has to give it to you with no time to think or argue. Once you’ve done that (getting the key back is a very important boundary) you can start to claw back your independence and power in other ways. Distance yourself. Be unavailable. Don’t tell her personal stuff. If you can maybe find a counsellor to support you in this? You have to be strong. Strong boundaries will help. If you are frightened of her reaction, quite likely, then you will just have to steel yourself even more to get the ball rolling.

I had a similar parent. It’s a PITA. They think they know best (they don’t), they just want control. She also would bring up all she had done for me if any issue arose. When we had a terrible row once about what it was that she had claimed to have done as the great parent she imagined herself to be she screamed “I bought you your school uniform”! That’s all she could come up with.

Finally, you could always move further away again.

I also agree with a bit of diplomacy too, just to sweeten the pill 😉 . I have to be disingenuous occasionally myself even though I keep my distance as well.

Your DM is abusive. You don't need that around your dcs. I really feel for you and she is to blame for your anxiety.

Get the key back and start putting up boundaries.