Narcissist and breadcrumbs?

[happydaystocome2023]

I don’t know if narcissism is real (I wonder if it’s just emotional immaturity or trauma) but my ex ticked all the boxes, according to what I’ve read. I mean more in how he treated me or how our relationship went. He loved me in an over the top way at the beginning, then the devaluing happened. He had weird, unrealistic expectations, critical and judgmental about things I had never thought could be a problem and which I had no control over. It got to the point I absolutely hated myself and felt sorry for him having to put up with me. He would ruin every special occasion, go silent on me, refuse to communicate, refuse affection, refuse to plan anything, deny wanting to break up, blow hot and cold, act ashamed of me when I spoke in public (I’m a very quiet person, I really wasn’t being annoying, but he would always flinch when I spoke), ignore me etc.

He broke up with me in a cruel way. I tried to move on. Then he came back, apologised, said he knew he’d been horrible, that I didn’t deserve any of it and that there was just something about me being so kind and good natured that made him want to be horrible to me.

He’s spent the past year hinting at us getting back together, asking me out and when I agree he says he’s actually too scared. I tell him in that case to let me move on. He will for a few weeks and then he’ll send a message saying he misses me. I feel so sad over losing him but I know he’s not good for me. I’ve told him to leave me alone for good. How do I move on from it? I feel rubbish and so sad I’ll never see him again. I’ve tried dating again but I’m terrified I’ll end up with someone similar.

Block his number and get therapy, specifically for poor boundaries and self esteem and people pleasing. Worked for me. He’s made you desperate to “win” his approval and keep you dangling and dancing to his tune. You will burn out and live a shit life if you let him lead you like this. He will never care about you only about controlling you. If you read this and think “yes but” then really think about how his actions make you feel and if you are thriving and happy? You deserve to be that and more.

Think of every horrible and unpleasant thing he ever did to you and tell yourself you aren't going to deal with that any longer and you are going to find a far better life without him. Block him on all media. Don't engage. Tell yourself he's history. Honestly OP he can only harm you and you don't deserve that.

They exist, don't go there honestly if it is that he will suck out your soul, destroy you and throw you away just like before but worse.

Block him and move on, don't fall for the other trick, future faking. Find someone who isn't insane, someone who actually appreciates you.

It got to the point I absolutely hated myself and felt sorry for him having to put up with me.

Tell him you wish you had never met him.
Tell him everything here
Tell him you might be kind up to a point but no more

This isn't healthy or desirable OP.

He comes back because no other sucker will have sex with him more than a couple of times because he acts like him and they think fuck this.

Honestly just tell him you wish you had never met him OP and mean it. Think about how you would be now if you hadn't. And be that person.

there was just something about me being so kind and good natured that made him want to be horrible to me.

Whether you believe in narcissism or not (it's really just a clinical description for a cluster of personality traits and behaviours that tend to appear together), anyone who says what he said above has severe issues and is not a good candidate for a relationship in any way. That's completely twisted.

@happydaystocome2023 @CheekyHobson

I can only go off my experience with my stbxw, professional third parties who have had to get involved over the children are leaning towards NPD solely because the behavior is so extreme and fits. Psychological assessments are on the cards to determine via court orders.

In my case, that was what it was like and I never understood it for over a decade. Any form of care, kindness, empathy or love was consistently, at some point afterwards met with belittling, name calling, hatred, rage and abuse.

You could do something nice and half an hour later, would switch like you're the worst person in the world. Then at any given moment after you'd taken enough, act the total opposite.

Mind boggling behavior, severe issues for sure.

Write a list of all the shitty things he did. Keep adding to it every time you remember something else. Remind yourself you deserve much, much better. Any time he gets in touch, or you are tempted to get in touch with him, read the list.
Also, counselling can be really helpful (it certainly helped me).
Good luck

I had therapy for months after we broke up. The therapist predicted his every move. She knew he'd be back even when I said that was impossible. She knew he wouldn't leave me alone and she was right every time. She seemed to find it funny when I would come and tell her he'd done exactly what she'd said he would. At one point I even told him I forgave him, wished him the best and I hoped that would help him move on. He kept giving me hope by saying he realised he'd been awful, the relationship would have worked if he hadn't behaved the way he had, and that actually I wasn't the reason for all his unhappiness, and that he'd focused on problems that weren't problems at all and that it was completely irrational. I can't stop thinking about him though. It's like I'm constantly wondering if maybe he just wasn't that into me but he wasn't mature enough to break up with me. I feel like I'm going mad.

I have an entire notebook filled with the awful ways he treated me and reasons to move on without looking back. It's like my heart won't catch up with my mind though.

@CheekyHobson In his defence, he did say he didn't know why he felt that way and knew it was wrong.

@Catsafterme That's just awful, I'm sorry.

In his defence, he did say he didn't know why he felt that way and knew it was wrong.

@happydaystocome2023

I can’t understand how you consider it a defense that he knew the way he felt was wrong but went right ahead and acted on it anyway.

@CheekyHobson I'm sorry, I probably didn't word it properly. I just meant he had shown some awareness that it wasn't normal. He said he couldn't understand why he was so horrible to someone who treated him so well. He said he couldn't help himself. I can't get my head around it which is probably why I'm still so focused on it.

He said he couldn't help himself. I can't get my head around it which is probably why I'm still so focused on it.

You can’t get your head around because it’s bollocks. He CAN help himself, he just doesn’t want to. He feels good and powerful when he’s belittling and devaluing you, because when you’re kind and good he’s reminded that he’s not. He makes himself feel temporarily better than you by putting you down.

Don’t even try to get your head around the pitiful and envious and dark and twisted shit that has to go on inside someone who is so dysregulated that he has to attack someone who is nice to him.

Nietzsche cautioned against gazing too long into the abyss, because the abyss gazes back at you. Don’t contemplate evil too long in the hope of understanding it, as that understanding may cause you to rationalise evil in the same way your ex does.

These types do not see things the same as everyone else. You're looking at it from a normal perspective, how you or others would react, behave with empathy and remorse. They do not have empathy or remorse, it's not there.

I figured out that in times that I saw something similar it wasn't real, it was learned behavior by observing other people's responses. The only aim for that was for it to be swept under the rug so any form of blame was gone.

They push boundaries and with each time you let it go, the worse it gets, it's like a game or a test. Until eventually you are a hollow shell, a complete doormat and there is no faux remorse or awareness. They expect you to take whatever comes and they revel in it, you are deemed weak, pathetic, worthless and eventually you disgust them so much they throw you away in the most cruel manner.

You cannot reason with the unreasonable. There is no rhyme nor reason to anything, you lose.

@CheekyHobson I find what you've said very reassuring, thank you. I do realise that there must have been some sort of power element. He would make me so low and when I would say I couldn't take it anymore, he would be really nice and affectionate and I would think the person I'd fallen in love with was back and everything would be okay now, only for it to start all over again. But you are right, maybe I should stop trying to understand someone abnormal.

@Catsafterme The pushing boundaries is something I was blind to. I thought I was making reasonable allowances. But the behaviour does get worse the more you let it go. I feel so sad that I didn't stand up for myself. I wonder would it have made things better if I hadn't let things slide. The disgust you mention is horrible too. It's devastating to be looked at like that or treated like that by someone you care for so much. The worse thing is, my ex said his behaviour stemmed from being terrified of having a shit relationship. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that.

@happydaystocome2023 Yeah same here, I was understanding and always tried to communicate and didn't react in anger. It sometimes felt like baiting for a fight but more than an argument or disagreement couples have at times. Like a need for chaos and for that to escalate into something worse, which I didn't entertain.

This wasn't just with me either it happened to pretty much everyone else in our lives, I just got the worst punishment as a result. If anyone didn't agree, had their own opinion, criticized or did something innocently that was seen as a slight or going against, it would end up in being ostracized.

The same has happened to me now where I didn't argue but I refused to be manipulated any further weeks after we separated and the response was, take everything we own and the children who I haven't spoken to or seen in six months. Now, history and events have been rewritten, compulsively lying to suit this narrative and I'm being scapegoated.

So no, it's rigged you lose either way no matter your response. They are not capable of stability in relationships.

@Catsafterme It's so sad and confusing when people are so intent on creating chaos. My ex was the same. It's like he couldn't be happy that things were going well or that someone (i.e., me) was happy and upbeat. Communication and resolving conflict were just off the table. He told me at the beginning how he had treated various exes. He made me feel sorry for him because he'd been in so many disappointing relationships. He told me his last ex had always been annoyed at him for ignoring her at weddings and parties. I thought that meant she'd been really clingy or needy and I thought 'Oh well at least I'm not like that,' but I soon found out what she meant: being treated like she didn't exist/was the least important person in the room, not being looked at or spoken to. At first I thought everyone disliked me and thought my ex was a great guy, the life and soul etc., but more and more people would say things to me quietly that made me realise his behaviour wasn't as hidden as I thought.

I think to move on, we need to just accept they were awful and work at stopping the obsessive analysis. I know it's trickier for you, with kids. I hope it all works out for the best.

@happydaystocome2023 Yep, same. I got fed a load of lies about ex partners and other people who had treated them badly and I believed it this entire time, a victim story. Only now I have found out she had treated them the same too, including own family members.

Thank you. Things are ramping up, they are unfortunately in danger but she hasn't necessarily won yet and I think third parties are taking notice...just endlessly waiting right now.

Keep a list of everything he did that made you feel rubbish, adding to it every time you remember something else. Remind yourself you deserve much, much better. Any time he gets in touch, or you are tempted to get in touch with him, read the list.
This is good advice.
He was the love of my life (so far) but I am not going back there -I did this and it has really helped. It’s hard but you have to do it.

Thanks @VanillaSox The list gets longer and longer. I thought I deserved so much of what he did that it's only now I'm realising just how horrible certain things were, and how you'd almost have to hate someone to treat them that way. I felt he was the love of my life too. But I don't think I feel that way anymore. The love of my life can't be a man who treats me like crap and tells me I deserve it, can it?

@Catsafterme That's all so sad. I really do hope it all works out for the best, and soon.