I'm angry with the dating scene and the attitude of some men

[roses321]

So basically I'm just having a vent. I'm probably doing it because I've been single for 5 months after a broken engagement after I left an abusive relationship.
I'm 39, have no kids and feel like I'll be alone forever so it's my fear talking and I know that.

Plus sides are that my life is so much better in so many ways and I am doing all the things I wanted.
Minus - I miss my ex and I am just so angry that he had this extremely toxic patriarchal attitude that i'm seeing more and more of. It wasn't that I wasn't to blame in any way but he was horrible and abusive to me and I just don't understand why he had to be that way even though I know why (I've read Lundy Bancroft) I just don't understand WHY he couldn't change.

I've basically watched numerous reels on Instagram by men with this Andrew Tate-esque attitude/red pill attitude and frankly I find it terrifying. I saw elements of this in my ex, it seems like a lot of men are subscribing to this AWALT (all women are like that) mentality. I earn decent money and have a career and with this attitude rife I kinda think why the eff did I bother? What does it really get you when in fact you just end up seen as a shelved cat lady with something wrong with her. This is never who I wanted to be seen as.

Sometimes I find it really hard to get up and do the whole "yay go me" thing and exercise, eat well, work hard etc. I always wanted a family and it looks like it'll never happen.

I'm not ready for a relationship right now but I just needed to come on here and vent. There are so many angry men out there, and so many women who aren't helping because they're publicising how they can obtain chanel bags and trips away from men by acting in certain ways. Apparently those of us who can pay are own way are "masculine" and "undesirable". What the heck!?

Did the world just do some sort of about turn while I wasn't looking and I've just worked to get a career only to be told that it makes me basically worthless to men? Or am I listening to too much extremism and need to stay the heck off social media for a while. It upsets me to see all this stuff and see so many angry men and women commenting and fighting about it online - it makes me feel hopeless to ever meet anyone normal. I just feel kind of worthless.

On the plus side, I did buy a new car alone yesterday and haggled the dealer down all on my own which was a minor win for me... but I guess again that makes me effectively a man because someone should do that for me... but they won't now because i'm not 18 years old anymore.

It just kinda feels like a lot of these men want to get young girls who are naive to take advantage of them and they don't like older experienced women because we know the score so they want to crush our self esteem and make us feel like we're yesterdays news. I literally have experienced jealousy at earning more than my ex partner and the resentment that comes with it.... how are we supposed to actually win!?

You’ve hit a seam of incels OP. It can feel like they’re everywhere but I promise they’re not.

’What does it really get you when in fact you just end up seen as a shelved cat lady with something wrong with her. This is never who I wanted to be seen as.’

First thing to do is rid yourself of your own internalised misogyny. That crap is what certain men want us to fear. Don’t give it power by repeating that language to yourself.

It’s nothing but a nasty stereotype designed to frighten women into starting, or staying in, relationships with awful men.

What does it really get you when in fact you just end up seen as a shelved cat lady with something wrong with her. This is never who I wanted to be seen as.

Absolutely nothing wrong with being a shelved cat lady! Cats give you unconditional love. I know a cat gentleman too! Why is having cats such a bad thing.

Get offline.
Go out into the real world.
Be sassy, accomplished, foxy, who cares what you think you need to be better than that to keep up with me, want to meet my cats?

Your post reads "oh poor me how can I win"

And relationships, decent ones, aren't about winning. Isn't that part of the problem you are complaining about? The awful men think they "win", they win the younger model, they win being a knob whilst you cling on.

Relax.
Have fun.
Don't think of the "prize" because you will chase rainbows it doesn't exist.

When I met H I thought, still do, you are fucking lucky to have me. It now works both ways but it's not a bad place to start.

I feel like I need to hire you! X

I'm probably going to get burned very badly by this answer but I say it in good faith. I'm a man who has recently had to grapple with why my eldest son keeps watching Andrew Tate online and to work out how to stop him doing it. Why are people like Andrew Tate thriving in the 21st century?

I don't think I have anything close to a whole answer but in my progressive, corporate bubble I grew quite out of touch with gender relations in other parts of society. Feminism is no more a single ideology than socialism but some strands that have become more the orthodoxy seem to be doing more harm than good. By that, what I mean is if we hold up Scandinavian countries as the closest ideal, I don't think these orthodoxies put us on the right path.

Equality can look like regression in the eyes of the powerful so there will always be opposition to equality movements. However, there is evidence for those who look that a lot of modern feminism does not welcome a male perspective on anything. One only needs to scan the boards here to see that. As a result some men are becoming alienated from feminism. Even in my case, I have chosen not to have an opinion on subjects like women's safety at night, transsexuals in sport or the gender pay gap now because I don't think my voice would be welcome. I'd probably be told I'm mansplaining. Someone will probably tell me I'm mansplaining here too, even though I'm not doing anything differently to any other poster.

Unfortunately I think this does seep into day to day relations between the genders. My son's attitude to women isn't at all healthy thanks partly to Andrew Tate but also partly to the general alienation that he feels. I think a lot of men have similarly given up on engaging with gender progress because they feel excluded from it.

For what it's worth though, I think a lot of men respect successful women. What I have found with most of my successful female colleagues though is that an awful lot of them still want a partner who is at least as successful as they are. This can not only be a vanishingly small pool of men but also my own male intuition is that they tend to be exactly the kind of men the OP describes.

Well I appreciate your response and think it's very intelligent, and I think it speaks a heck of a lot of truth.
I guess it's about extremes really. I don't consider myself a feminist but I've found myself pulled towards it purely because it provides justification for the anger that I feel towards men, and equally they probably feel the same way listening to people like Andrew Tate, it speaks to their anger. I guess as a result we need to acknowledge that extremist views of any kind are very dangerous and that the only way forward is understanding one another's pain points.

I know how you feel about having opinions on "women's" issues, I've attempted to lend a helping hand to men's issues and had the same angry response you probably did. I guess that's because for every person who really does want to lend support from the opposite gender, there are probably several who want to say something along the lines of "don't be a pussy, cities are safe at night nobody is in any danger" or "well your wife probably took everything from you because you didn't appreciate her". It's a really sad place.

Your input has actually restored a little faith though so I am grateful for it, truly. People like Andrew Tate, Donald Trump etc. who are basically completely ridiculous characters - people look at them and are like "how are they even getting an audience", but as ridiculous as they are they're capitalising on fear and misery that has come about as a result of issues in society.

I'm actually really sorry for your son feels the way he does, and I think it really sucks that men are feeling this way but perhaps if he's open to listen you can tell him there are women who also feel this way as well and that it's really about the person and not the overall gender. I appreciate you reading my vent without judgement anyway, and responding without judgement as well.

Can I ask why you don't consider yourself a feminist? I would consider myself to be a feminist in so far as it means being an advocate of women's rights and the aim of equality between the sexes. I wouldn't consider it an ideology that promotes anger towards men though, at least not 99% of it. My thoughts on it are that where we are in 2023, women who subscribe to feminism are fed up with the slow progress and more extreme views (e.g. "domestic abuse is a gendered crime", "men are incapable of running a household", dismissing everything men say as mansplaining etc) are getting traction on the one hand, whilst on the other men see these things and put their defences up (I guess a good analogy of what is happening is similar to the "Corbyn Effect." Socialism isn't inherently wrong, but the bits people heard the most they really didn't like).

Also, thank you for highlighting your own experiences when talking about men's issues. It's quite enlightening to hear (I guess our biases make some things harder to see than others). It's also why I don't think we can become "more like Scandinavia" any time soon, because to get there we need a coming together of ideas rather than attempts for each side to impose its views on the other. That coming together of ideas is a long way off when people won't even listen to each other.

As for the Tates, the Trumps and the like. Misogyny is only part of a whole lot of other things that are wrong with characters like this and consequently, and I find it very hard to understand, but there are a lot of women who follow them too as a result. It is a very sad state of affairs when even women put their trust in a man who is on record as saying he commits sexual battery.

It sounds like you're in a bit of a spiral where you're angry at your ex and seeking out horrible, misogynistic men like your ex online to validate your anger, but that is making you more angry and wanting to seek out more of these men to be angry about and so on.

If you want to get out of this spiral then you need to make a conscious decision to stop seeking out these men on social media. Maybe find something more productive to do with your time, or at least if you're going to be on social media look for content that is more positive and uplifting.

From reading your post op you need to deal with your own internalised misogyny , you openly admit these men are disgusting people but still consider relationships with them . And think you are practically a man for buying a car .
Men like this have been about for years women just need to wake up and see it and it’s happens to most of us eventually . Get better standards and look at how you view women .

Don't understand irony do you?