Feeling sad about my marriage and not sure what to do

[Grapelipstick]

Feel so conflicted about whether or not to separate/divorce from DH.

We've been married for 18 years, have three dc (all at secondary school).

I am sure DH is neurodiverse, and a few other people have suggested it too. His work was always so stressful for him, and he has now taken early retirement (he's only 55 but can just about afford to.) I'm a bit younger, late forties.

Our relationship was always a bit rocky, I did feel like he used to love me, but the last few years I've felt that he's withdrawn from me and now I don't feel he loves me at all. In fact he's told me that he loves me as part of the family, but not in the way he used to.

Over the past few years I have really struggled with the fact that he didn't seem able to deal with his stress from work/life - he used to get angry with me, cold, eye rolling, passive aggressive, moody. He'd punch the sofa cushions or zoom off in the car for hours and i was so worried as I didn't know where he'd gone. I was very affected by his stress and moods and found it very difficult to cope. Now he's finished work he is a lot better, eg he doesn't seem so stressed or have those behaviours he did before, but he is still withdrawn. I know he has noticed that he and I don't interact much any more - I think what has changed is that I used to be the one to always make an effort, ask him how he is, plan dates for the two of us, watch a film together - I've now stopped doing that as I just lost the desire to spend time with him after he'd been so stressed and angry for years.

We've had relationship counselling which didn't really help. He hasn't really apologised for how he's been, if I ever bring it up he just gets defensive and says it was a dynamic between the two of us eg it was both of our faults. He's also had counselling over many years.

I feel we are two very different people now to who we used to be. I feel I still love him, but how do we go forward? On a day to day basis it all seems ok - I go to work, he does hobbies at home, we look after the children etc. He doesn't do any housework really, I used to feel very annoyed about that but somehow I don't mind as much anymore.

I keep thinking about divorce as I would love to have my own space. I feel so conflicted- as I mentioned I do feel I still love him, and almost feel sorry for him at times, but I also feel so damaged by how he behaved, and also I'm not sure we have that much in common any more.

He loves the dc and he is financially responsible, which I do appreciate. I don't know if I'm asking for too much - I'm sure after a long relationship/ marriage, a lot of water passes under the bridge for most people.

I just feel like I don't have the energy to split up at the moment - work, dc, extended family, house and garden seem to take up all my energy and I am barely on top of everything as it is. Not to mention the worry about how the dc would be if we divorced. But I just feel unfulfilled, sad and in limbo. I would be willing to talk to DH about everything and move forward, but if he is unwilling to accept how his behaviour has affected me, is there any hope? But maybe he finds it difficult to express an apology in words but is showing it through being financially responsible?

Also I think even though he is better now he has finished work, if another difficult situation came up again (which is inevitable) I'm sure he wouldn't be able to cope and would revert back to all his old behaviours. I know he is not purposely trying to harm me when he gets stressed, but he does.

I feel really sad as I remember the man he used to be who I feel in love with, and the stresses and strains of life seem to have beaten him down into a different person. Even his mum has said she doesn't recognise the person he has become.

Sorry if it's all a bit rambling - I just have a lot of mixed feelings about everything and not sure how to go forward.

It does sound like he has completely checked out and wants to live a solitary life without you being part of it. You say that you love him but is that just habit and familiarity? If you rewound to when you started out, would you have chosen to be with him knowing he would turn out like this ?

As for him doing no work around the house when retired! That is outrageous. He should be doing 90% of the work around the house. That would really annoy me.

@Norbi yes it does seem that he wants a solitary life. Although I know that if I kept being proactive and organising dates/time together etc, I know he would be happy to come along, but somehow I don't want to keep being the one who has to make the effort all the time. He doesn't seem to take the initiative and that is definitely a factor in its now having drifted apart.

I think he doesn't know how to take the initiative, it's not that he doesn't want to, so then if I think about that I feel sorry for him.

Re the work around the house - I used to get so annoyed and upset about that. I tried everything over the years to get him to help but nothing worked. Strangely I have accepted it now (or maybe I just don't have the energy any more to care!)

It sounds more of a maternal relationship, you doing everything and him just being there.
‘Is this how you want to live the rest of your life ?

I prefer being alone than having someone who is indifferent to my presence and doesn't pull their weight.

A lot of women get resigned to this life. It is up to you to figure out if you should join them. I see my parents in this dynamic and feel sad for my mum, she does everything and my dad doesn't care. Your kids are watching your relationship, is this what you want for them? Would you be happy if they settled for this life?

@DustyLee123 yes it does feel a bit maternal. Thinking about it, he does seem a bit child like at times. I feel love for him and also a lot of empathy, as I think he finds life a struggle. So thinking of separating is a hard decision as I don't want to hurt him.

Equally I can't deny that my life is comfortable on a financial and practical level at the moment and all that would change if we split up. It's just the actual relationship with DH that's not really working - I guess I have to decide if that's worth splitting up and breaking up the family over.

@Smooshface you're right, I also know of many women in a similar situation. Most of them say that they are ok with it, one or two are planning to leave when the children leave home.

I guess it's the fear of the unknown holding me back. I was thinking maybe I should rent a flat for a few months to give me an idea of what it would be like to live separately. I would prefer it if DH moved out temporarily as I am much more engaged with the dc and do the housework, but I don't think he would.

@Grapelipstick your post really resonates with me. I’m in a very similar situation although I have been with my DH for 25 years. I have wrestled with the should I stay or should I go for a long time. I’m sure my DH is neurodiverse too, my DS has autism and they are very similar. My DH is also financially very good and we have a comfortable life but I definitely feel like it’s me who organises everything and I feel more like a mother figure to my DH. I’m now early 50s and with peri menopause in the mix I’m not sure I’ve got the energy to leave and I’m also not unhappy all the time so it’s very difficult to know what to do. Also my DH isn’t a bad man but he also retreats into himself. Sorry no advice but just wanted you to know you aren’t alone.

I think you have to think of what you would like for your future, which scenario do you feel more drawn to?

1. a life with your own house and space and a coparenting relationship with him.

2. an improved relationship with him where you continue to stay together in your marriage.

I ask because if it’s 1 I think you have your answer, if it’s 2 then I think that even though you say you no longer have the desire to organise dates or nights in, activities with him I would do it anyway, in the hope that it would bring you closer together and perhaps now without the stresses of work he may now be able to find the time to plan and make an effort with things. He may just need a kick start from you to find he can take the initiative himself, or maybe he won’t but then at least you will know that even without the excuse of work stresses he just plain can’t be bothered or just doesn’t want to make the effort for you and the relationship.

If 2 I would also sit him down and have a calm conversation with him, and ask him if he would like for your family unit to stay together, and if so that you need to work on your relationship and is he will and prepared to make the effort. If he isn’t or is reluctant I think you need to spell out for him exactly what the means for your relationship and the future i.e. you will leave/end the relationship and it will be coparenting going forward etc. He may just really need to hear the reality of what will happen if things continue as they are, because right now he is comfortable enough with that status quo but you are not, does he want to sleepwalk into a divorce or he does he want to save the marriage, do you? What do you want OP? 💐

@Turquoisesea Thank you. I'm sorry you are also in a similar situation. Yes sometimes I think that I can live with this, and at other times I think, well this could be the next 30 or 40 years of my life, I can't do it!

Maybe in 10 years time I'll have even less energy and will just feel like living side by side with someone, rather than having a fulfilling relationship and connection. It's so hard to know what to do.

@Lillygolightly that's good advice, thank you.

Right now, I don't actually know if I would prefer option 1 or option 2. I just don't know. But if I'm even considering 2, then I think that's a good idea to talk to him and say what you have suggested. And then if he gets angry or defensive or still refuses to make an effort then I will have my answer.

I wish he would just say directly to me what he feels. Even if it's "I don't love you anymore. I don't find you attractive and I don't feel we get on any more", I would prefer to hear that as then I would be clearer on how to go forward.

As it is, I kind of feel that he loves me "underneath" but doesn't really know how to show it, and then I feel like I should stay. But maybe I'm kidding myself, I would just rather know one way or the other.

I think that’s really good advice from @Lillygolightly

Thanks all for your comments.

I was wondering if anyone had left a marriage like this, and was happier afterwards? Just feel so daunted at the thought of leaving as it's not awful, more like we're living side by side without much interaction.

I can relate OP, in a very similar situation myself. I feel my partner of 17 yrs has checked out and if I'm honest, I have too. I feel like there's a wall between us now and I'm so regularly irritated by him. It's sad, because we used to feel so compatible now we feel like silent enemies almost.

Have you asked your husband what he wants? Is he happy as the relationship is? Does he want it to improve? Would he be sad if it ended?

I think, as with most things, time will tell for you. It will either improve or you'll get to the stage where you actively want to seperate.

The hardest thing is being in a relationship with someone who can't communicate. I'm there too. It means you either carry the relationship narrative or you are intensely lonely. There's only so many times you can try to resolve things before you feel you're on a merry go round and need to get off.

It doesn't really matter who's fault it is really. You both sound like nice people who have lost their way together. What matters is motivation to improve things. So I think you're going to need to communicate where you're at with him and take it from there. You may also decide it's best to just lay low and address it more when the kids have left the house. That may make it easier for all of you practically.

All the best. You certainly aren't alone, I have lots of friends in unhappy marriages. It doesn't mean it'll stay that way, time tends to work things out.

@EmmaDilemma5 I can relate to everything you have said too - sorry you are in a similar situation.

It's just so difficult to communicate with my husband as he doesn't give a straight answer. If I ever ask him direct questions like the examples you've given he pretends he's got stuff to be getting on with and walks off. I actually tried to pin him down with an honest conversion a few weeks ago, and kept saying "I know this is hard for you but I would really appreciate it if we could talk about this" He basically said he felt really uncomfortable having these sorts of conversations and would prefer to not talk about these things.

I get the impression he knows things aren't great between us, but doesn't know what to do about it. He's said in the past that he is who he is and he can't do anything about that so I just need to accept it. I think he thinks that we've been to counselling, so what more can we do.

Like me, I know he wants to stay together for the children and finances. I need to find out though if he loves me, and if he thinks we can get a connection back, otherwise long term I don't think it will be enough for me.

Your right that time tends to work these things out. I have felt so desperate at times and like I want to know if we're going to stay together or not, and move forward with my life, but I think I have to be patient and see how things unfold.

@Grapelipstick massive squishes.

1. please don’t use children as a reason to stay together. The children are currently living in a home where dads checked out and mum runs herself ragged doing everything. This is what they are being told and shown how relationships work. I have so many friends tell me they wish their parents had just separated earlier as the atmosphere in their childhood was really tense.
2. “He basically said he felt really uncomfortable having these sorts of conversations and would prefer to not talk about these things.” - well basically it’s tough shit and these conversations need to be had - adults sometimes need to have conversations that are uncomfortable and awkward. God forbid one of your children ever tried having a conversation with him he finds difficult.
3. “He's said in the past that he is who he is and he can't do anything about that so I just need to accept it.” erm. No. We can try to change and improve ourselves especially if we are contributing to unhealthy or negative things in relationships due to our behaviour. It’s not ‘can’t do anything’ it’s won’t do anything about it.

it just seems that he expects you to pander to his needs, his moods, and you also have to carry the relationship- make all the effort, and do all the housework whilst working - whilst he’s retired and can chill out. I’d find that really unattractive.

In my 40s I’d be considering not wanting to waste another 10/20 etc years like this.

id tell him he needs to listen to you or he’ll find himself in the middle of a divorce if he can’t talk to you and work on improving things together.

I mean does he make you feel loved at all, any affection/emotion/romance in the home. Any cuddles or sex? Or is it like having a long term lodger that you work around?

It's really tough. I think there's some truth in what he's saying; if he's autistic especially, I really don't think the communication will get any better. But equally maybe that's not the crux of the issue, after all, he's always been like that and presumably you've been happy enough in the relationship for over a decade.

I think the biggest issue is you've both checked out and, if you're anything like us, you're point scoring and both maybe approaching things in a defensive way (I could be projecting here!). The "he's not doing that so why should I" type attitude. Which is fair enough and natural, but won't help the relationship.

I also relate to your reasons to stay together for the kids. My parents stayed together despite their relationship lacking romance and, sometimes, respect. They muddle along ok. I have definitely benefitted from them staying together, we see them both together regularly with the kids. We don't have politics at Xmas and birthdays. I know, whilst their relationship isn't ideal, that they have each other to rely on. If they had split up, they'd have had to move to a cheaper area to afford anything so we'd have seen them less and worried about the community they'd be forced to live in.

You mentioned he's had individual therapy, have you? I wonder if that could help you get a bit more clarity over the situation.

Can you tell me what his good points are? What does he bring to the family?

I’m in a very similar situation, have wanted to split for years/staying for the kids, but if we don’t make a move soon we will end up being stuck here. Trapped by ageing/ill health and pension only money.

I’m neurodiverse and my ex found it hard to live with me as I was not one for housework (although I was the main earner). I’m a woman though so sexes reversed.

I suppose if it’s just the housework, that could be dealt with by getting paid help. But it sounds like it’s more than that (as it was with my ex). We remain friends and I have a cleaner who comes twice a week (and used to have a live in nanny).

neurodiverse people often need their own space though so maybe splitting up wouldn’t be bad for him or for you. Only you know that

@TheCatterall Thank you.

"I mean does he make you feel loved at all, any affection/emotion/romance in the home. Any cuddles or sex? Or is it like having a long term lodger that you work around?"

Oh gosh, yes, exactly that, I have felt for a long time that he is like a lodger. No, there is no affection, emotion or romance. Although when he goes to the supermarket he will occasionally bring me back a small bunch of flowers. In fact, when I've mentioned to him over the past year that I feel our relationship needs working on and I don't feel loved, he will say that he sometimes bring me flowers, and doesn't that show me that he loves me.

There are no cuddles or sex. I used to lie with him on the sofa and we'd watch a film together, but as I've stopped doing that, he doesn't now initiate or suggest anything. And it's at the point now where its been so long that I think we both feel awkward if I cuddled up to him on the sofa. No sex for a couple of years - he said he didn't have any desire for it as he was so tired and stressed from work. Now he's not working, but again we seem so distant from each other, it would be very awkward if either of us initiated anything. Also I feel I would need to work on the emotional connection with him before I would want to do anything physical.

"In my 40s I’d be considering not wanting to waste another 10/20 etc years like this."

• *Yes these are my thoughts too - and then on the other hand is the worry about the children, but as you say, I'm sure it's not good for them to pick up on any tension between DH and I.

@Grapelipstick
In some respects it seems as you are punishing him by no longer arranging outings are things for you to do together.

Why is an apology so important? How will that in anyway alter anything . Is it also possible that you bear no responsibility in the dynamic that occurred between the 2 of you over all of those years? You seem to see it as all his fault. He no doubt was difficult to live with, but I would imagine that he too felt at times challenged living with you.

If life with you, means that the past is to be like anvil hanging over both your heads, that is no life for either of you.

Maybe now that some of the work related stressors are gone from your life, you could together try creating a new routine. He no longer has to worry about his ability to successfully retain his job negatively impacting his ability to financially provide for his family. That must have been an awful weight to carry for all of those years.

It is up to you to determine what your life should be going forward, but it seems that if you are determined to carry animosity from the past into your future. As a kindness to both of you, it may be better for you to separate

@Mari9999 those are very wise words, I can see that a lot of what you say resonates with me. If only I could forgive and forget like so many others seem to do, instead I fester and resent.

@EmmaDilemma5 yes, I think you're right about the communication not getting better. I think my DH feels that he's been to counselling, we've had marriage counselling, and so what else can he do. I think he feels that he's changed a bit, but he doesn't have the capacity or motivation to work on himself any more. That could be part of being neurodiverse.

I think the reason I used to be happy was that when I first got together with him I had low self esteem, I was happy to listen to him endlessly talk about his subjects of interest and problems and I would try to help. I was happy to "look after" him, and do everything I could to make him happy. Over the years, and with children as well, I realised that the relationship was a bit one sided, emotionally. And I don't have the capacity to keep giving and being flexible if it's not reciprocated.

Yes, I think we are point scoring in a way. I think that's why I don't seem to get angry any more about him not doing housework. I used to love having a clean and tidy house, but I have felt so ground down over the years as he refused to do anything and we ended up arguing about it, that I feel I do the bare minimum now, as its almost like I'm feeling why should I do it all while he doesn't do anything?! Not a healthy attitude to have, I know.

That's interesting to hear about your parents, and that you feel you benefitted from them staying together. All those points you raised are ones I've been thinking about. It's so hard as one view is that it's better for the kids if parents split up if they don't get on, and the other view is it's better if they stay together (as long as there's not outright animosity). I wish I had a crystal ball to see which would be better in my situation!

"You mentioned he's had individual therapy, have you? I wonder if that could help you get a bit more clarity over the situation.

Can you tell me what his good points are? What does he bring to the family?"

I've actually just started individual therapy, and as you say, I'm hoping that will give me more clarity about everything.

His good points are that he is loyal, reliable, financially responsible. He cooks the main meal a few times during the week. He does the food shop. It's difficult to say really what he does practically as he does spend most of the time in his study doing his hobbies but I guess the main thing is that I feel he is the children's dad, he's a presence in the house, he's there at meal times, he sometimes has a chat with the dc (although not that often).

@Mari9999 I understand what you're saying, and yes of course I know that I have responsibility for the dynamic between us. This is partly why I have just started counselling as I wanted to be clear about the situation, and be objective.

"In some respects it seems as you are punishing him by no longer arranging outings are things for you to do together."
I'm not sure my motivation is to punish him. It feels more like I am burnt out from the years of him taking out his stress at home and on me (that I'm sure he wasn't doing purposefully, as I've mentioned) and so somehow I don't feel like I want to arrange stuff to do together. It feels like there is a lot unspoken between us.

"Why is an apology so important? How will that in anyway alter anything . Is it also possible that you bear no responsibility in the dynamic that occurred between the 2 of you over all of those years? You seem to see it as all his fault. He no doubt was difficult to live with, but I would imagine that he too felt at times challenged living with you.

If life with you, means that the past is to be like anvil hanging over both your heads, that is no life for either of you."

The years of him taking out his stress on me and not communicating did have a big impact on me - I spent years at rock bottom, feeling like I didn't want to live any more. Objectively, he did do the things I have mentioned (passive aggression, anger, punching the sofa, shouting at me) for years. Surely that warrants an apology or acknowledgment, rather than brushing it under the carpet? I have apologised to him over the years if I've done anything to hurt him - I know no one is perfect but surely a healthy relationship is one where you can acknowledge if you've made a mistake or hurt your partner and say sorry? Otherwise it feels like the relationship is one sided.

@Grapelipstick it's hard isn't it- my H has periods where he is moody and bad tempered(usually work related) and then just when I'm thinking 'oh sod off' - he is nice as pie for a while.

I think though the years of having moods does wear you down enormously- my H always says he isn't being moody to me, it's the world as a whole, but it is me that has to live with it.

I think it's possible to still care about someone enormously but actually find them unpleasant to live with a lot of the time, and the problem is if married you are often around them 'a lot'

It's no one's fault if it isn't working - but it does feel like it sometimes if you pull the plug with no 'bad behaviour' reason

@Mari9999 you are not alone. I have been married 24 years and have the same dilemma about go/stay. If it was just about me, I would have filed for divorce quite a few years ago. I have 3 secondary school-age children and have stayed because I think it’s nicer for them. However it isn’t nicer for me, and it’s becoming increasingly difficult for me not to feel like I’m being eaten up from the inside. My DH is completely ostrich-like about our situation and it really gets to me that he would rather passively carry on living as housemates rather than talk about our sham or a marriage. I relate to what you say about simply running out of gas to always be the one who arranges stuff. I am trying to work out if there’s a way we can afford to bird’s nest to keep things stable for the kids. I think if I presented him with a workable compromise to split he’d just go along with it..