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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is there hope for my husband? Covert Narc? DARVO?

30 replies

Etam · 01/10/2023 23:06

Apologies if this is long, but I'll try to set the scene so no one can come back and say I'm drip feeding Confused

Is it possible for someone to be a covert narcissist and use DARVO tactics without them being aware of it? Is there a way to highlight my husbands issues to him and the damaging (I assume?) effect it's having and on me and the children that will make him realise and want to change?

Husband believes he is the greatest dad in the world. Admittedly he does do an incredible amount for the children and I. He runs his own business mainly working from home, does 60% of the pick up and drop offs, takes them to their activities if I'm working, spoils them by buying them the newest latest toys, bikes and 'things', works to send them to private school, etc.

But... he's got a lot of issues that have caused me an immense amount of distress and I can see now he's starting to treat DC1 the same way, meanwhile DC2 sees all the chaos going on.

I have diagnosed ADHD (and most likely undiagnosed ASD). It's likely both my children do as well. DC1 is really starting to struggle now that they're in secondary school. Can't focus on work or tasks that are asked of them, homework takes hours to do because they're constantly getting distracted, they can't sit still or be quiet at home and are always getting up, singing, making strange repetitive sounds, complaining that they don't understand, etc. Time at home is a nightmare. In addition. They experience anxiety, don't understand social cues or tone of voice, have low self esteem, constantly asking if we like them, making comments saying they're stupid, saying they wish they were dead (but they always worry about dying). It breaks my heart into 1000 pieces when I see my then struggle. DC2 is still quite young so they don't seem to be struggling as much.

My husband refuses to acknowledge that there is anything 'different' with my children and refuses to let me seek help to get them an ADHD diagnosis. When I highlight the fact that I've been diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and mention it's hereditary he flips out and yells at me saying "they're nothing like you" and gives examples about how outgoing the children are and what things they're good at. He has threatened me with divorce when I've tried to get them help.

Over the past year or so I've become increasingly convinced that my husband is both a covert narcissist who often uses the DARVO technique and gaslighting. If we have an argument or I manage to prove him wrong by stating a supporting fact, he gets very angry with me and always has to flip the argument onto me so I'm the bad one and he becomes the victim. He cannot take any form of criticism. Most arguments end up with him flipping it on me and focusing on the fact that my salary is awful and I don't make enough money.

For example the other day two of my DC1's friends needed a ride home from school because their father never showed up to collect them. Husband had gone to go collect DC1 and they asked if husband could give the other two children a ride home. Husband said ok and took them home, but the door was locked and no one was home. Husband called me from the car irate yelling at me saying that 'he doesn't have time for this, and how he's so stressed and has to run a business' he was yelling and told me that 'you (me) need to deal with this and it's my fault because their mother is my friend' Confused

He is always the victim and he sees injustice in everything. From extended family never inviting him and his single parent mum along on holiday with them (and even still now not being invited as a fully grown adult on their family holidays). He's always reminding us how much he does for us, how he does far more than any other dad, that he 'won't be around forever' etc.

Below are only a few things he's said to me (keeping in mind I have ADHD (diagnosed at 40, so under achieved and felt like a failure my entire life with poor mental health):

•	You just need to try harder
•	You don’t remember because it’s not important to you

You need to contribute more
You don’t care
• You’re in your own world
• I don’t get you
• You cause me so much stress
• we’re not meant to be together
• You’re holding me back
• You need to step up and be a parent
• You don’t care about the kids otherwise you would have known X,Y,Z
• I’m done with you
• You’re no help
• I will never forgive the stress you put me through
• you bring everyone down with your negative energy

And things he says to DC1 when he's frustrated:

•	“I’m done”
•	“I’m done with you”
•	“I’m leaving”
•	“I’ve had enough”
•	“What’s going on with you”
•	“What’s wrong with you” 
•	“I give up with you”
•	“Stop fishing for compliments”  (when DC1 puts themself down or says negative things about themself)

I do everything for you
• Why is it so hard for you to listen?
• You destroy me
• Why do you do things just to get a reaction?
You’ve got life too easy
• You’ve got no discipline
Your tears mean nothing to me. You don’t take things seriously
Can you just grow up a bit. You’re very immature for your age.
• You love getting negative attention
What’s going on with you!?!
• You’re not thinking straight
• You’re really lacking focus right now
• You’ve really got some listening issues

No matter what husband is always the victim. He says he's never appreciated. People don't care about him. We'll never find anyone else that does as much as him. We'll never appreciate him until he's gone. Over the years and the way he's treated me I've lost almost every ounce of sympathy and emotion for him. I think to protect myself because I can never be right or good enough I have built up a wall and just try to ignore him most of the time as best I can - at least in front of him. So I am probably colder and less sympathetic and emotional towards him which annoys him because he thinks he's the shit.

He loves our children more than anything and I know he does try and do all he can to provide for them and only wants the best for them. So I don't think he's not consciously aware that he's a supreme asshole. I'm wondering if there's hope for him. Is there a way to get him therapy or show him some videos that will make him realise his behaviour is toxic?

OP posts:
Etam · 02/10/2023 12:55

@TheBaddestTurkeyInTown I would like to try. I could barely afford to get myself a private diagnosis several years ago for just ADHD. Husband refused to acknowledge it and doesn't believe in ADHD really. It will take me about a year to save up, but I'm going to try

OP posts:
TheBaddestTurkeyInTown · 02/10/2023 12:58

Get yourself the Patricia Evans book asap, quietly read it and just hold on to that - you don’t need to try and discuss his behaviour with him at all at this point, just observe him and the situation.

You have ADHD and that causes issues on its own, but you are still worthy of being treated with kindness and respect, and so are your DC.

You will be okay, you just need to take it slowly and stop believing anything that he tells you about yourself.

Pinkbonbon · 02/10/2023 12:59

Love, your kids self esteem would probably improve vastly if they hadn't got an asshole for a father.

Leave him and do all you can to support your children, including getting them tested for adhd.

Be very clear with them thar you left their father because - he wasn't kind. So that a. They know it isn't their fault. And b. They know that you do not agree with his behaviour or condone it towards them. And c. They know not to tolerate or excuse bullies in their own life's in future.

Catsafterme · 02/10/2023 13:00

If he is one, it's very unlikely you will get him to change. They are perfect and everyone else isn't, it must always be someone else. Even if you tried to show evidence it would be denied, blame shifted or cause rage.

As far as I am aware those that do happen to seek help themselves have successfully destroyed everyone else's and their own lives to the point there is no denying it, no more bridges left to burn, no one else to blame. Mine has done this fairly early in life but still has control of the children at the moment so, they are still justified and bulldozing along causing more destruction.

Other than that I don't think many get diagnosed unless forced to and even then from what I understand it's hard to diagnose.

Be wary of a covert narc that goes off the rails, they can set out to seize full control and weaponize the children. Do not let them find out what you know about them or anything for that matter regarding your plans, it doesn't end well.

mollythemaid · 02/10/2023 16:39

Wow this thread is enlightening. I'd never heard of DARVO but just looked it up and it is 100% STBXH. I hated arguing with him because he would always shift the blame on to me and end up crying and playing victim. So I just gave up. I wouldn't say narcissist, but definitely narcissist traits.
Oh and I've also ADHD (diagnosed at 38) and have previously been in a DV relationship.
It's really interesting to see the link between them.

OP, my advice is just start getting your ducks in a row to leave. You deserve happiness and it doesn't sound like you are getting that right now

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