Trust

[Chuffaluffa]

Before I go into this, I know my feelings are valid, etc, but I’m interested in whether this is something that I’m particularly sensitive too, or whether my standards are lowwww!

I’ve been dating someone for nearly 18 months, who had been separated for around 3 years. When he was with his wife he was regularly unfaithful, and justified it to himself with the thought that, as he’d spun such a web of lies around himself, he would one day kill himself and the secrets would die with him.

he’s since done a huge amount of work on himself, although maybe not enough. I didn’t find out about the deceit in his life from him, but from others.

trust and honesty are hugely important to me and I’ve just realised that I’ve never had a relationship with an honest man, despite it being a value I hold so highly. I feel like this has confused my view on whether honesty is really as integral to a relationship as I want it to be.

We are in a LDR and haven’t been getting on recently. last week we were arguing, and then at the end of the week he revealed that a drama had been happening in his family that he’d been dealing with and ‘wasn’t allowed’ to tell me. He thinks this is ok because he wasn’t comfortable hiding it from me, and he told me as soon as he was allowed.

I appreciate that his family member asked him not to share it, but to me he’s created a hierarchy of confidences, and I’m down the pecking order. Whereas to me I’m not sure there’s anything I’d hide from a partner who I see as ‘the love of my life’, irrespective of keeping someone’s confidence- I would expect my partner to keep that too. It also meant that I had no idea of what he was dealing with all week, and therefore lost the ability to be any support.

i suppose the question is- how much honesty would you expect from your partner? I am ‘warts and all’, and would rather know everything than feel that something is hidden, whereas he is a people pleaser who likes to manage situations to keep people happy. I see this as dishonesty, and I also think he has disrespected the huge amount of trust I’ve put in him to get this far.

So in all… do you think it’s more important to maintain the trust of your family members, or your partner?

"So in all… do you think it’s more important to maintain the trust of your family members, or your partner?"

Both, equally.

YABU to expect him to dish the dirt on a family problem when he has been asked specifically not to and now you're going in a mood because he's told you about it.

TBH, it doesn't sound like a trust issue, it sounds like a truth issue. He has form for lying in the past and you think he's at it again.

I think he loves lies and drama.

There is plenty of ways of tell someone my family is having some private affairs that are getting me busy and absort. Once they are solved I'll give you a insight etc, without dramatic effect.

The thing about lies is ... that you can really have no idea what parts of his Barrio I've are true and which are not.

He may even believe them when he says them. There is so much to be said for a simple truth between you

Without that, it's all just fantasy. Sorry.

What on earth are you doing with this habitually cheating, drama-fueled idiot? Run for your life.

Not the dirt, although it’s a situation we’ve been discussing for months, and in those discussions he’s been dishonest about what he knew. It’s very much someone else’s situation, I live away, don’t have contact with anyone I could or would share it with, there is no reason for me to not be trusted.

And I didn’t need to know any details, but to have ‘oh I had to speak to my parents on X night because they’re so upset’ when I was wondering why he wasn’t engaging in conversation with me as usual, is just weird, imo.

in those discussions he’s been dishonest

Why waste your time on this fantasist ?

I think here, you’re never going to trust him. He wasn’t honest and upfront about his past cheating, he left you to find out from others. I think for me that’s really telling.

He seems to like drama. I understand him keeping his family’s business private, I don’t think you can get angry at him about that if i’m honest. If he was hiding other things then I’d be annoyed.

Are you happy op? Can you trust him? Do you think you’ll be able to trust him whilst you have a ldr?

I trust that he wouldn’t cheat on me, I don’t believe he would do that. It’s more that lying is part of his lexicon. I don’t think it’s intentional deceit, even, it’s that he likes to manage how other people feel, or present himself in a certain way, so will reframe something.

a really minor example would be one night we’d been out and dancing and my feet were so sore I took my shoes off and walked to the taxi rank in bare feet. When we got near his house he asked the taxi to stop and said to me ‘let’s just walk from here’. It was literally one minute away from his house and he knew my feet were killing, so it was really odd. Then later he admitted he didn’t have enough cash on him for the taxi to go any further. That’s totally not a problem, but it was framed in a way that was more palatable, iyswim?

I trust that he wouldn’t cheat on me, I don’t believe he would do that.

I'm sure his wife felt the same way. What makes you think you're so special? I'm sorry, op, but it seems as thought you're being willfully obtuse. This man is unfaithful, unreliable, and inherently dishonest. You have dozens of red flags waving right in your face and you persist in ignoring them.

I see how it looks naive on my part, but i know a lot of his issues stem from how much he hates himself because of what he did, hes disgusted and I don’t think he will ever forgive himself. He finds it impossible to accept any kindness or care from me because he doesn’t think he deserves it. If I didn’t see that, I definitely wouldn’t have had any trust to start with!

I don’t think it’s intentional deceit, even, it’s that he likes to manage how other people feel, or present himself in a certain way, so will reframe something.

So he’s controlling. Lying is often about control. He controls other people’s perception of him like he did when he failed to tell you he was a cheater.

You seem determined to trust someone who is not trustworthy.

He's toxic, OP. Lying, controlling, manipulative. It doesn't matter why he's like this and I get you are trying to be compassionate. But he's toxic and you'll never be able to trust him.

He shouldn't be in a relationship - if he really cared about you, he'd tell you that himself and let you know he's getting some intensive therapy to sort his toxic shit out.

Just end it. This relationship is never going to bring you any peace.

I have learnt in life that men will lie and lie till they are blue in the face. They would rather be a coward and insult your intelligence and make you think you're the crazy one. Even when you think "surely not him, not now, couldn't be, not after all we've been through, not when he loves me so much" - lo and behold.

So, I don't know what to make of each of these small incidents (family drama, taxi), but his history clearly shows that he is exactly the kind of cowardly man you will sadly never be able to fully trust. Sorry.

Yeah, it's selfishness, ultimately. He's scared of getting a negative reaction in the moment, so he prioritises his immediate comfort over the other person's wellbeing. Then they will come out with "oh but I never meant to hurt you...".

@Chuffaluffa
If his word means anything to him. he should not violate a confidence by sharing information that he has agreed to keep in confidence.

How could possibly trust him to keep your information confidential and yet expect him to violate the confidence of others. A man or woman should be trustworthy enough not to share information that they have agreed not to share .

Perhaps you may not be the partner for him if you do not expect or want him to be s man of his word.

@beastlyslumber
It is not for the OP to question whether this man should be in a relationship. That is a decision for him to make. The issue before her is whether she wants to be in a relationship with him. He is not violating his boundaries. She is violating her boundaries if she stays with someone who does things that she finds unacceptable

I see how it looks naive on my part, but i know a lot of his issues stem from how much he hates himself because of what he did, hes disgusted and I don’t think he will ever forgive himself. He finds it impossible to accept any kindness or care from me because he doesn’t think he deserves it.

I'm sorry, op, but he really saw you coming. He lies about everything, and you think he's being honest about this? Come on now.

He was so disgusted with his cheating yet he continued to do it for years. Right. What he's really doing here is managing your expectations. He's letting you know you will never be able to trust him or count on him, so don't complain to him when he proves, once again, what a piece of shit he is.

Yeah, okay?

But this guy shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone. And if he was a decent guy who cared about her, he wouldn't be in a relationship with her. He'd be in therapy.

That was my point. He's toxic.

I appreciate that his family member asked him not to share it, but to me he’s created a hierarchy of confidences, and I’m down the pecking order.

That's a weird interpretation. There is no pecking order. This drama, whatever it is, isn't about you. He was asked to keep someone else's problem to himself and he did so. That's what you should do when a friend or family member wants to keep something private. Absurd to ask him to betray that confidence and then try to make the situation about you.

@gannett Yes, that’s his perspective too. However we’ve talked about this situation several times, at length, and he’s pretended he didn’t know what was happening, when he did. No ‘I’m really sorry, I can’t talk about it’, just blagging and feigning ignorance, and then ‘oh this has happened and I’ve known about it for ages’.

my intention isn’t to make it about me, or even that he would tell me details, but not to have me spending time checking in with him about a situation, worrying about the people involved and discussing possible outcomes in our very limited time together, when he knew all along.

He’s a proven liar, by his own admission. And his reasoning that his secrets would die with him is so bizarre and has no logic to why he continued to be unfaithful.

As a proven liar that means anything he says may be a lie, a truth or a bit of both.

He may have changed his ways, or that could be a lie as well.

If you intend to stay with him, you can only go by the way he acts and what he does, not what he says. Maybe after some time you will begin to feel you can trust what he says.

In the taxi scenario he felt his image to the taxi driver was more important than your sore feet. Surely he could have asked you if you had any means of paying.

I was married for a long time to someone whose image of being a great guy was everything and I was definitely put down the pecking order even with strangers (as you were with the taxi driver).

My ex also had some kind of moral ambiguity, the truth would change depending on how it would suit him.

I’m astonished you’re so certain he won’t cheat on you. OP he’s a cheat. And that whole ‘kill himself and his secrets die with him’ is deeply dysfunctional and dramatic.

I think it’s ok for him to keep a confidence if he’s been asked to but in all honesty I think he’s bullshitting. I don’t think you can trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

"he asked the taxi to stop and said to me ‘let’s just walk from here’. It was literally one minute away from his house and he knew my feet were killing, so it was really odd. Then later he admitted he didn’t have enough cash on him for the taxi to go any further"

In this scenario I'd assume he was a bit embarrassed, in the moment, sat in the taxi, when he realised that he didn't have enough money for the full journey so, to save face/his embarrassment he did this. I think it's good that he explained later his reason why.

So he wasn't "lying to you", as such, in this scenario.