It's finally clicked. My father really doesn't like me....

[BlaDeBla]

I don't think he ever did. I feel very sad and let down. He has always been a violent manipulative bully, using threats, blackmail and the bible to get his way.

Now in my 40s with 2 gorgeous children, I feel quite vulnerable and upset and angry. I've tried to contact Womens Aid and NACAP, but without success. I don't want to drive my dh bonkers with the same old stuff going round and round like a stuck record.

Get yourself the book Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. Lots of people on MN have read it and reccommend it for coping with these sort of parents. Just finished reading it myself and feel like a weight has been lifted.

Shit isn't it....

Can't you just cut him out of your life? Or find a way to not care and gain your approval/ praise elsewhere?

Counselling helped me come to terms with it.

It is easier said than done cutting people out of ones life! We were supposed to be leaving the country last year when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Less than a month later I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. Because our house is rented and because under the circumstances we felt it would be easier to be treated in UK, we are in house rented but not lived in by my parents.

I'll keep trying WA & NACAP

BDB - I didn't mean that to sound flippant - I've been struggling with this for years and have finally reached a place which is easier to deal with. I tend not to call him which means he has to call me - happens on average about twice a year
I used to call a lot to try to foster a better relationship but have now accepted that he doesn't think much of me; he has to do the running now and it has become easier for me.

You didn't sound flippant Wisteria. It's one of those things that comes and goes. I did manage to contact NACAP and I spoke to a kind man. I've heard about Toxic Parents for decades! Now perhaps is the time to get on and read it.

I have told my mum that dad really doesn't seem to like me, and his behaviour towards me is utterly without respect (at best). I don't think he likes her much either. Anyway, at least I'm not married to him.

I have had a lot of therapy of one sort or another for the past 25 years or so and in a way it's a bit of a relevation to accept that he just does not like me. It is harder to leave my mum, although she has chosen to stay with this man and side with him even when he was behaving appallingly. I guess that this is what feels for now like the greatest betrayal, that she would rather be with a violent lunatic than look after her children. I do not have to think (in theory) how terrifying she must find her husband. Sadly she is now drifting behind the wall of Alzeimers.

BdB - sorry for your Mum - have watched Alzheimers destroy twice and it's no fun at all.

We worked out that my Dad just detests women in general , needless to say that was after Mum died and he moved his 'lodger' in

BDB, Really empathise with you here. I have no contact with my father now - a combination of his disappointment at varying stages of my life and the input of his hideous wife who was all too happy to be shot of his kids.

I tell myself it's his loss, and that I have no reason to feel inadequate because of it. He is just another person in the end and doesnt deserve the power to make me feel that way.

But this was only after numerous attempts to keep some kind of contact. And I've had my fair share of therapy myself. He is not in my life so its easier.

{{{{hugs}}}} for you. X

I felt the same about my Dad, nothing I ever did was good enough. He died 7 years ago, and it felt like a great weight lifted from my shoulders, as I could be me, not what he thought I should be.

Prior to his death, the only way I could deal with it was by not having much contact with him, and not giving him any ammunition to play with. I was depressed for a while and saw a counsellor which helped. Basically, all the bad stuff about Dad, I mentally put in a box in my head, locked the box, and lost the key. I just didn't go there.

Sadly, you can't choose your parents any more than you can choose your kids. There's no rule that says just because we have blood ties that we have to like each other. If my Dad hadn't been my Dad, I would have had nothing to do with him, as it was, I had as little contact with him as possible, as I didn't want him to have the same effect on DS as he'd had on me.

I know how you feel - I have come realise the same about my father. He hates women and is more and more vocal about saying so. We are all stupid manipulative, money grabbing, nasty cows, basically. He loves my two boys and I thank God I didn't have girls. He postively fawns over my DH who can do no wrong (I have no problem with DH it isn't his fault). I don't know how my mother puts up with it. She is the reason I can't just cut myself off from him as they are still married but part of me wonders why she put up with it for so long and why she puts up with it.

That said he has got worse as he has got older and I am now pretty sure that he has something wrong with him, be it depression, dementia or even some form of undiagnosed autism but since he never accepts he is wrong and nothing is ever his fault he will never seek help for it and the rest of us have to live with it.

I find myself thinking that he won't be around forever, but that is a horrible way to think about your father, isn't it.

Niecie - what you have described could have been my father....... could there be underlying issues (re my previous post) there?

Wisteria I don't think so but I am not sure.

His twin brother and his two sisters still live together even though they are all in their 70's. None of them have ever married and my mother and I have pondered the possibility especially my father's twin brother who is quite camp and sounds like a cliched gay to me - sort of like Kenneth Williams without the humour! Not seen him to years though - he is almost a recluse now.

My father gets hugely defensive if you even suggest anything like that but is very quick to say that any woman with an opinion is a butch lesbian.

I don't know really - I just think he has a massive chip on his shoulder about something. I wouldn't be surprised if he was abused as a child. He is very very bitter about being evacuated in the war and the treatment he got from the woman who took him and his brother in. I don't think she was a very nice person but he won't go into details. I think she may be the root cause of his anger and also his mother for not keeping them with her in London.

He seems to have wiped out most of his life. He has kept nothing from the past, no photographs or letters, none of the stuff he had from when he was in the army, there is nothing from his life before my mother and what she has kept over the years.

It is all very sad but I am finding I am developing a thick skin about it. I don't look for his approval any more as I won't get it and frankly I am better and more intelligent than him and I have proved it so if he calls me stupid and everything I do a waste of time then thats his problem. If that sounds smug and arrogant I am sorry. I don't honestly consider myself better than anybody else but him and that is no way to think of your own father is it?

He is merely annoying now although I wish for my own sake I didn't feel quite so irritated when he is around.

Gosh, sorry I seem to have gone on. I've not really put this down in writing before. I'll shut up now!

My Dad brought me and my brothers up from the perspective of a homophobe interestingly and still acts in a similar way, even though he lives with a man (albeit under the pretext of lodger and landlord ).
It does sound very odd but it's great that you have found a strong position to adopt and know that you are better/ stronger than your Dad. FWIW it doesn't sound either arrogant or smug; to me it sounds as though you re far more emotionally mature than your Dad

Thanks Wisteria.

I am just so sad that none of us have the kind of relationship with our fathers that we should have done and it seems to have done all sorts of damage.

Something has happened to these men in the past that has turned them into the not very nice people they are or were and I suppose the important thing is to be aware enough to make sure that this doesn't affect the next generation. That is my main concern anyway - not to treat them the same way as I was treated by accident.

I still find myself getting into the same old pointless arguments with him over silliness though. Wish I didn't.

God Fio - what a fucking horrible thing to say - he is clearly a complete arse and doesn't deserve you.

Niecie - I know, I wonder what Dad must have gone through sometimes. The hardest thing I found was to make sure that I break the cycle as you say. On occasion I would hear my Dad in my voice when I was talking to DD1 - that's when I knew I had to get it sorted out.... I certainly don't want my kids growing up with the same shit I've had to cope with!

Fio that is awful.

Wisteria - I know what you mean about watching the tone of voice. It doesn't just affect the children but DH as well.

Nothing incenses me more than him thinking I am somehow not his equal. He is certainly better at his job than I ever was ( we used to do the same thing) but I can't bear him not treating me as an intellectual equal, makes me very stroppy even if he means nothing by it! I am supposed to be going to work for him in October when DS2 starts school full-time but I am not sure I can handle it even if it makes economic sense for us.

God rather you than me niecie - if I worked with DP one of us would be up for murder (probably me ).

Can you not get a different job and he can hire someone else?

The thing is he would be a very understanding boss when I want the school holidays off or one of the children is ill! I don't even like the job any more but I can't really justify staying at home without the children being here.

But you are right, the end result might well be murder. Perhaps we need to talk about it some more, lay down some ground rules, make sure he sees things my way.

KM - I don't think my Dad likes anybody much, including himself, it is just women that come in for extra special criticism.

Ground rules a very good idea... like no personal comments. You have to treat each other as if you are just colleagues while you are in the office but, believe me it's far easier said than done!! My dp and I worked at opposite sides of a big building but in conflicting departments - we never managed to deal with it as we couldn't separate the way we spoke to each other....

My brother and his wife behave like fighting dogs. I have told my brother that it is a really dangerous and stupid thing to do. Of course my dad thinks his daughter-in-law is marvellous, but a lot of this is typical and more to do with putting my brother down than anything else.

It is very sad that my dad has taught my brother that it's ok to bully and bash women around, but it is sadder that my idiot brother will not get any help. His wife is a step beyond ghastly, and the whole family is caught up in the fighting, children, dogs, the lot.

Can you find other work, Niecie? There's an interesting website called Kickbully.com which may be helpful to you in making your decision.

Fio, your dad sounds like a raging nutter . What a dreadful thing to say.

I find it relatively easy not to see this brother, and easier still to have nothing to do with his wife. I've spoken to NSPCC about them but they said they weren't interested if the children wore clothes and had enough food. Mmmmm

Bladebla - it is so sad that your brother has taken up where your Dad left off. Regardless of whether your SIL is awful it is the children who are suffering as you say. at the NSPCC not doing anything. Did you have any evidence to present to them or was it just your word with nothing to back it up?

If you are really concerned I would go to Social Services though. You have nothing to lose and your nephews and nieces have everything to gain. Not a pleasant situation for you.