How to deal with a narcissist when the family gaslights you?

[Famdram]

I'll try and be brief otherwise this post could be a book so apologies if I skip over details. In a nutshell, MIL is a narcissist and has been awful to DH his whole life and me nearly as long as we've been together (over 10 years). We've tried to deal with it and work through various things that have come up so we can still keep them as family but DH has finally started seeing through the FOG and I've started tackling my people pleasing and we're not happy putting up with it anymore. Trouble is we're lost how to deal with it.

We live away from them now so I have virtually no contact with them anyway apart from 'high days and holidays' like Xmas etc, because they show virtually no interest in me and DD, not because I've ever refused to speak to them, and DH keeps contact with his mum mainly by phone. He's said before he'd be prepared to cut them off completely if it seemed like the right thing but I know he'd be devastated and so guilty as he's still struggling with FOG, they're getting older now and he's talked before about how awful he'd feel if they died with there being bad blood, so I've always said I don't want him to do that unless he decides he wants to.

In the past there's been major incidents like MIL trying to ruin our wedding, screaming at me that I'm evil and causing countless arguments whenever she's felt like it but also much smaller nastiness too, it's simmered down now we're not around her much and now SIL has children for her to dote on but she's still spiteful to us.

Trouble is his mum is still wrecking DHs head via these calls but it's all very subtle, like telling him how well his sister is doing in things that she knows he's struggling with at that time. Eg, DH has depression so if he has a few weeks where he's not getting out much suddenly she'll be full of stories of lovely activities his sister has done with her family etc. Or she'll ask 'innocent' questions like when DH was made redundant it's all 'so they didn't have any other jobs they thought you could do? Don't they think you're very skilled then?'. Sounds petty but it's relentless and there's so many examples, it's like death by 1000 cuts. If she was challenged on it she'd feign ignorance that she was just trying to talk about family news etc.

The whole family are her flying monkeys, FIL is browbeaten and will agree to anything for a quiet life, DHs sister is desperate to stay the golden child and not get the narcissism directed at her, as all the spite is saved for DH they get quite a cushy life with the in laws doting on them so SIL will make the most ridiculous arguments/points to excuse whatever MIL has done.

Due to this we can't talk to MIL or lay down boundaries, it's like trying to stop someone hitting you when there's other people ready to hold you down so they can kick you instead. Because of them desperately trying to ignore MILs bad behaviour it's very difficult to make any sort of low contact environment, like if we say we're not going to visit them in their home (MIL is worst there) everyone acts as though we've gone nuts and are being completely unreasonable, if we then brought up why the boundary was there and what's happened in the past MIL gets very 'upset' and offended and everyone rallies round her and acts as if she'd never done anything wrong.

Is there any way of openly being low contact in this sort of gaslighting environment?

You don't announce anything to a narcissist.

You go grey rock if you have to deal with them or you cut them out completely.

It doesn't sound like your DH can grey rock so honestly I'd go NC.

I have done this myself and the only contact I have with the old MIL is via my DD14's aunt who is not a flying monkey.

However, I haven't been with her son for over 13 years so I do not have to deal with her at all, contact is between my DD and her aunt only.

Go Nc, what's the point in your DH putting himself through this?

The main thing stopping DH going NC is MIL is excellent at pushing the guilty 'pain point' and he can't stand the thought that they'll die soon (they're only early 70s but do have health conditions) and he'll feel so guilty for having cut them off. DH is having counselling but he still can't get out of the mindset of being happier to hurt himself rather than risk hurting them.

Don't say you're not going to do things. Just don't do them. Find excuses. Then only do the things you have built up enough strength to withstand, if it's really impossible to go NC.

It might help to remember that if MIL is a narcissist then the family unit has built around her symbiotically. It's not stuff they're doing, it's what they are. I'd include MiL in that. Maybe she can change, I don't know, but neither of you can change her and certainly not by 'calling her out'. You can only change what you do.

Guilt is a pointless emotion.

His mother doesn't feel guilt because she's a sociopath.

Your DH needs to see his withdrawal as protecting his family because right now she is impacting his mental health and therefore your life too.

He can only control what he does. He withdraws and does the bare minimum of he can't go NC.

He only communicates the bare minimum and keeps it on very specific topics, boring answers only. Preferably ignoring most communication.

I would say if he can't go no contact then he has to train her to stop doing these things or to at least remove himself from her when she is being unkind. So if she starts to go on about the sisters activities when he's depressed, not to storm out or hang up but just say, oh well it's been so nice seeing you/chatting but I've got some chores to do/places to be. Lovely seeing you/chatting. She can't accuse him of anything because the point of her behaviour is it's not overt, so she can hardly accuse him of stropping off because she hasn't done anything wrong, has she?

I'd also suggest he doesn't tell her anything personal, like about depression or his job situation or anything that she could use to exploit a vulnerability. Just keep everything very superficial, like what the children have been up to or hobbies or interests.

He probably needs some counselling to recognise her behaviour is not about him but all about her. He has done nothing wrong. The reason he has depression is the way he's been treated all his life, and she is responsible for that. The guilt is what she's used to keep him stuck all his life. Once he recognises that then he can start to come out from under it but guilt is a very persistent emotion and it takes a lot of work to root it out.

If Dh is in a point in his journey where he can't face NC, and struggles with Grey Rock, can he cut down on contact?

How often is the phone contact and who is calling whom?

Definitely don't announce it, but if he is calling he starts calling less or not at all. If she is calling then he practices not picking up every time or saying 'We're about to go out, not a good time right now, speak next week' so he cuts down his availability.

Similarly don't announce you aren't going to visit MIL in her home, just never be available to do it so that before you know it you've only done it once for an hour in 2 years.

Work out who the flying monkeys are and same treatment for them. He needs to give out as little information as possible, keep conversation superficial.

Would your husband consider seeing a therapist?.

I would encourage him to watch Dr Ramani on YouTube re narcissists. He could also read Children of the Self Absorbed by Nina W Brown. Toxic Parents by Susan Forward is also a good starting point. He could also look at the out of the fog website.

His mother uses these phone calls to further browbeat your husband. The length and frequency of such calls needs to be lowered to a point of zero sum. People from such dysfunctional families end up playing roles and his is the scapegoat for all the familial ills. The role his sister plays is not without price either though she remains unaware of this. Narcissistic people do not like boundaries and she and her enabler husband will rail against any you care to set. If he wants to reduce all contact to zero sum follow his lead and do not readily assume he will be devastated. And he really does not want to go down that rabbit hole either I.e they dying in future. Remain busy and unavailable to all invitations. He matters and he needs to protect himself and you from being further abused. His parents were once young and abusive now they are old and abusive. He also needs to let go of any and all residual hope that they will change and or say sorry, that does not happen. The opinions of any and all flying monkeys should be ignored too as they have their own agenda.

”the family unit has built around her symbiotically. It's not stuff they're doing, it's what they are.” That’s a really thought provoking way to look at it, sounds right in this situation (and my own)

I'm struggling at the moment. My MIL has been gaslighting my husband and I for a long time during which she didn't support us emotionally for many milestone moments. We finally (after several years) confronted her about these issues last week. It took 4 hours and lots of comments which made things worse to get a glimpse of an apology. In a situation where it'll be best for our mental health to take a step back and break from them but we feel bad for a 3 month old baby not having their grandparents involved. Can feel so lost as she will not change and will easily put everyone else against us. I struggle to sleep at night thinking of all the bullshit she said and lies she said, just takes so much energy and I wish it stopped. Really sad as she's chosen stubbornness, pettiness and ego over her son. Luckily, my family are loving and supportive which helps.

Withdraw completely now from his side of the family. Stop letting her gaslight you.

I would have advised you to not take part in such a meeting with his mother as it would be a complete waste of time. Narcissistic people have no empathy or insight. It is not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking.

Better to have no grandparents than abusive ones in your child’s life. If the other set of grandparents are nice and importantly emotionally healthy, then concentrate your efforts on them.