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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Thinking about divorce and feeling stuck

20 replies

Amgelima · 20/09/2023 08:29

I’m in my early 40s with three primary school children and am an American living in the U.K. with my husband. There are good things about my marriage - my husband is intelligent, a dedicated family man, makes a good living, shares my Christian faith, shared my enjoyment of fitness activities and supports my love of music. Both of us are well matched in terms of libido and sense of humour. We also have playful moments when he is in a good mood, and enjoy a shared family sense of adventure. We both care deeply about our children and how they are raised and we discuss and work hard on parenting. He has also been generally supportive (although sometimes resentment shows up) regarding my recent furtherance of my education with plans to resume my career part time while the children are young and eventually full time as the children become older.

Against that background, I also was raised to believe that divorce was wrong and to be avoided at all costs. Both he and I have watched our mothers put up with horrible treatment, cruelty, and neglect from our fathers. Mostly, it’s blatant disrespect and verbal abuse. My husband believes that while he hates the way his father treats his mother and has seen her hyperventilating with anxiety when his father is in a bad mood, he still thinks it is good that his mom has stayed with his dad “for better or for worse” and that despite the suffering she is doing the right thing.

My position on divorce has changed. I now wish my mom would have divorced my dad due to his abuse. It breaks my heart to see my 75 year old dad still speaking in harsh tones to my kind and patient mother.

So now to my own marriage. When I got married, I believed marriage was forever. I also grew up in Christian culture where divorce was frowned on as was any kind of sex before marriage. I saved sex for marriage and entered marriage with the belief that it would be forever. Shortly after marriage, my husband became verbally abusive with hyper critical language. He criticised me incessantly, especially my cooking and house keeping. I tried everything. I tried agreeing, listening, explaining, etc. I tried pointing out that some criticism was ok, but consecutive 5 minute lectures saying “is this the standard you were raised with?!” In a loud voice was not ok. If I spoke to him with any emotion in my voice, he called it screaming or yelling, even if my voice was completely normal Volume and just tense or frustrated. He also criticised me in front of his family and my family, especially my parenting. He would bark orders. “Get this, get that, did you get this? Did you remember that?” After we had children, he complained daily about the house and said “how do other women do it?”

he also shoved me. We were not even in an argument. We were on holiday, on a ferry. I was in a good mood, when he began to criticise me for something - not having a sheet of paper he thought I should have brought. He simply berated me from behind and shoved me on the stairs. I told him I would call the police. He didn’t ever shove me again, but he still corners me and closes the door behind him to have harsh conversations. I ask him not to do this. He threw hard wooden or plastic toys at my legs for years, saying it was an accident as he was just cleaning up the toys. I got bruises. When I said “ouch”, he would say loudly “I didn’t do it on purpose!!!!!!” Instead of apologising. If he steps on my foot he generally does not apologise. He says “I didn’t like your scream!” (When I usually only say ouch or squeak)

he also has a weird relationship with his sister. She competed openly with me and tried to break up our relationship in the early years. It’s a long complex story. The bottom line is, he kept choosing her over me. Maybe it’s bc I was easier to push around bc I was so polite and compliant. Whatever the cause, I begged him to listen to me and he ignored anc refused for years. He kept saying “just give her the benefit of the doubt”. She convinced him to go on a family holiday to France without me. She came into our hotel room once on a family trip and asked him to go into the bathroom with her to “reveals” her new bikini privately. She finally got married to her boyfriend and had her wedding right when my baby was due (12 days from when he was born) and asked my husband to be her man of honour bc she had no female friends. She glared at me at most family gatherings. My husband would not hold my hand near her bc she didn’t like that. But he would link arms with her. At family events for years he had to sit by her or she would have a fit. If we got her a joint gift as husband and wife, she would ask that he return it and get her one just from him. He literally said she felt like a second wife to him and he felt his duty was finally done when she got married.

he had total control of our fianances for years. He literally would only give me money when I asked and it was never enough. He acted like this was my problem. I was at home with three babies back to back and was using my maternity allowance to buy groceries and he was earning over £100k. I had 50 p in my bank account so many times. He acted like this was my fault.

I begged for marriage counselling for years. He finally went. Some improvements have been made. We now have z joint credit card account. I will soon have a career earning at least 50-60k full time (planning to be part time).

he has stopped much of the abuse, but it still comes up sometimes. I am just so mad at him. He finally started listening to me share about my pain. I still don’t think he really gets it. He says I need. To just forgive him and leave the past in the past. I say I need to have him understand what abuse is and make changes and give me a chance to heal.

a big part of me wants divorce. But I am terrified of what my future may be if I do it.

OP posts:
Boxoftricksanstreats · 20/09/2023 08:40

Here in the uk we have women’s aid .
you can text them and chat or call them
don’t forget to erase
your browsing history.

good luck

Amgelima · 20/09/2023 08:47

I should also add, about my SIL - her wedding was on the other side of the world so I was not able to attend due to being very far along in my pregnancy and she knew this would be the case when she set the date ANd my husband still attended - he chose to go - and again all else that happened, I really would have preferred that he choose to stay with me instead of leaving me alone and with braxton hicks starting 36 weeks pregnant with two toddlers - that is why I mentioned it.

OP posts:
NotLoud1 · 20/09/2023 09:01

He sounds like an awful controlling bully.

Amgelima · 20/09/2023 09:25

Thank you. I think what I find hard is that there are moments where things “seem to be getting better” and so I think all the years of hard work might be paying off and maybe he is maturing and maybe I shouldn’t throw in the towel bc getting a divorce would blow up my family and my poor children would grow up in a broken home and it would affect all of us financially. My husband controls all of the money and his name is on the house. His family is horrible. I worry they would mount some huge attack against me and leave me destitute. He would definitely want the children with him 50 percent of the time and he really loves them. He also frightens me around them bc he loses his temper at them. We would have to stay here in the U.K. if we divorce and all of our friends are married couples, mostly Christian, so I worry most of them would just “back away slowly” and not want to take sides and I would have little support. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me but I worry about being destitute and friendless and even somehow losing my children. I don’t want to see them less either. That is part of why this is so hard.

I start to think things are better and that divorce is just not worth it - and then he has another episode of anger or one of his episodes of anxious criticism (against me or the children) or he punches and breaks the light switch. The last 2 months he broke the washing machine door, the light switch (punch), a plastic storage container (punching it in front of me when his rage had nothing to even do with me), and the new-ish microwave. I walked into the kitchen and the control panel was practically hanging off the front. I was like, “you got angry?” And he sheepishly said “yeah”. He replaced it quickly. But this happens too much. I told him to think objectively about how many things he has broken and can he get help bc this is scary for the family. He minimised it and got frustrated with me. He says he will do marriage counselling again with me - BUT he doesn’T want it to be about him. It needs to be about me too. He especially wants me to work on not bringing up past faults and not holding the past against him. But he still doesn’t admit that it was (is) abuse and some of the behaviours are still there.

In happy moments I just want to let it all go. I bring stuff up to him in rare open moments, and he is really good at trying to make it look like some of the issues are my fault too and no one is perfect and we all need to work on ourselves and when he broke, eg, my ceramic figurine it was really just an accident and when he hurt E.g. my son’s leg with the buggy from behind it was really just an accident. I believed him at first. But then I see this pattern. Even last night he was saying if we go to marriage Counseling again we need to co own our issues he doesn’t want the finger just pointed at him. But I am not there yet. Sure I have areas to work on but I do not abuse. I feel we need to get the abuse out of the way before it is safe to work on other issues. I don’t know if I will ever feel safe with him. I don’t know if I will ever be able to just “forget the past” even if he truly stops abusing.

am I being unreasonable? Should I just keep working on my marriage and saying divorce is not with it?

OP posts:
ShinyBandana · 20/09/2023 09:38

Omg. What have I just read?

You are choosing this horrible life every day you stay in your marriage. Please understand that you have agency. That means you can make a different choice.

Please make a different choice

Amgelima · 20/09/2023 09:45

Thank you. I think I feel stuck for so many reasons. It may be that I don’t actually believe my life really would be better if I left him. Or that, if I had another relationship, that another man really would be kinder or would want to connect with me. And I also worry that my husband would be heartbroken. (Which is silly bc he hasn’t worried about his cruelty to me). It helps me so much when you tell me this sounds horrible - I honestly need people to help me see that if it is bc it has been my normal for so long now.

I grew up not believing in divorce. I saw it as something I would never do and it was frowned on by my community. I worry that I would be judged. But I also believe there are good, kind people out there who would still befriend me.

im in a place where I don’t think I will be respecting myself if I stay with the man who treated me so badly for so long, even if he changes.

OP posts:
ShinyBandana · 20/09/2023 10:10

“I'm in a place where I don’t think I will be respecting myself if I stay with the man who treated me so badly for so long, even if he changes.”

yeah….this is about you.

Its hard for me to understand but I can see how entrenched you are in this anti-divorce mentality and I can only urge you to really look around you and understand that the majority of people won’t give a damn whether you are divorced or not. And the people who love you should be relieved if you get divorced.

This is your life. Make it a happy and healthy one …. I think that might start with some positive actions that help you develop and lean on your self-respect

Lookingforasilverlining · 20/09/2023 10:23

No counsellor would accept you for relationship counselling if you were honest with them. Your husband is emotionally, physically and financially abusive. And from your last comment about son’s legs maybe physically abusive to your child? Either may in the UK the fact that he is abusive to you means the children are considered to be victims of emotional abuse.

There are loads of places you can seek support, including Christian organisations which can help you be safe.

https://www.salvationarmy.org.uk/domestic-abuse

You can also go to a Boots pharmacy and ask a member of staff for ANI (pronounced likes the name Annie) and they will take you to the consultancy room and help you access support.

Domestic abuse

Offering safety and support to those who have experienced domestic abuse.

https://www.salvationarmy.org.uk/domestic-abuse

Amgelima · 20/09/2023 10:35

Thank you so much. I did not realise that. That is super helpful to know about Boots. I had no idea. You are right that I have been emotionally, physically, and financially abused. My life has been hell much of the time in this marriage. Sometimes I have felt like it is my fault bc my husband acts like he is criticising me bc I am to blame. He has already damaged me so much. I am afraid no one will believe me bc I have actually helped him project a successful, positive image and have talked mainly only about his good attributes in public bc I believed my duty was to be a respectful wife. Half the time I think he does not see his faults at all and thinks I make a big deal about nothing.

about 9 months ago, my husband read my journal and saw that I wrote that I was “done” with our marriage. He started reforming himself and trying to be kinder. But he still has anger blow ups. He told me he would kill himself if I left him. He also said he had thoughts about driving the family car off the road with all of us in it and killing us all. I actually told my GP about this to put it on record. My husband said this to me twice. But he seemed to have moved past it and seemed to really be trying for our marriage. But now I am not sure if I can really love him bc of how he treated me. I can forgive but not trust. I don’t want revenge, just safety. And I don’t think I can ever really feel safe with him. No matter how many times he says he has changed. (And he hasn’t really - when I soften, his mean version returns in glimpses that I can recognise).

OP posts:
jay55 · 20/09/2023 14:52

Threatening suicide is a normal abuse tactic.
Please contact one of the support agencies and let them help you make a plan for safety.

Hibiscrubbed · 20/09/2023 16:47

He also said he had thoughts about driving the family car off the road with all of us in it and killing us all

This is terrifying. He’s threatening suicide and family annihilation. You have to leave. The whole situation is horrific.

Radyward · 20/09/2023 17:04

Thank your lucky stars you have stayed this strong. Well done you. He hasnt managed to convince you fully its all your fault..what a horrible man
He is.i bet the kids see it for what it really is and are a bit afraid of him he is awful. He needs to leave .you need a part time job as he wont wa t you having your own mo ey he is a grade A CU#T. Seek help catalogue and document incidents
Seek legal advice- have your ducks in a row and your break out of this horrible marriage will happen.best of luck

junebirthdaygirl · 20/09/2023 17:31

All of that is so upsetting. Christians are not asked to stay in abusive situations. Have you shared any of this with your pastor. If they are not supporting you to leave you need to get away from all of them as a good pastor will see your husbands abuse and help you to leave him for your safety and for your children's.
Please tell as many people as you can especially about him saying he would drive the car off the road . He cannot be allowed have any custody of the dc if he is thought to be capable of that. Also your home is a family home so it shouldn't matter that his name is on it. I am in lreland so l presume that's right in the UK.
Also here we have coercion laws and protection laws which the UK has too. Could you make a statement to the police and have him removed from your home.
I am a Christian and anybody who is a genuine Christian will have no issue with you divorcing him..not that it's anyone else's business. Your safety and the safety of your children is all that matters. He is using spiritual control to hold you in his power and that is a very hidden and manipulate form of oppression which your church should be aware of.
He is a vicious and horrible man.

LightlySearedontheRealityGrill · 20/09/2023 18:01

This sounds like coercive control to me, which is a crime in the UK. I would contact the police and ask to speak to a domestic abuse advisor. He has threatened to murder you and your children if you try to leave, several times! And frankly, he sounds like the profile of man who would do that. Speak to them, start a file on your situation, if they are informed of what the situation is they know to come quickly in an emergency, and it should help you in any child residency decisions as well.
How long until you complete your studies? Thank goodness you have been doing that. You may need to work fulltime, but you will probably enjoy that after the nightmare you have been living in. The freedom will be incredible, fix your eyes on that and keep moving forwards towards it.
This man is no Christian, he is the opposite, and you have a duty to get your children away from him and give them some peace in their lives. Growing up around a temperamental violent abuser is something you don't recover from, as you well know. Give them a better chance in life than you had.

TinyHaus · 20/09/2023 18:59

Hey there @Amgelima
Christian woman here. I hear you. It's a hard decision to make but it is one you may need to. It is right that you go through all possible scenarios. Your kids, finances, friends, church and family. Please be safe as you take your time to make the decision to divorce or stay. If you decide to stay, then own what you are staying for don't let it happen to you.
I divorced almost 3 years ago and moved away from my local church and friends. I am rebuilding life on my own with my kids and building a new community.
Leslie Vernick and her conquer community was instrumental in helping me get clear about my decision to divorce over a year before I eventually filed.
I planned everything before I left because it was safe for me to. The most unsafe time is when your abuser realises you are really about to leave them. Shalom.

ThisWormHasTurned · 20/09/2023 19:14

I’m a Christian…the first couple of sentences sounded like my marriage. I actively chose a a Christian husband. Saved myself for marriage. The abuse started after we were married. Mine wasn’t physical but that doesn’t mean you don’t bear scars.
The physical damage he does is to keep you ‘in your place’. You step out of line, he breaks something. You know that ultimately he could do that to you? Don’t do joint counselling. If the counsellor doesn’t see the abuse, he’ll use it to manipulate you. I had a counsellor say I was controlling! Maybe get some for yourself. it really helped me.
In the end, I split from my H. I found this a big step to take, I took my vows in front of God and I felt ashamed I couldn’t uphold them..but you know what? This wasn’t what God wanted for me. He didn’t want me to be abused and mistreated. I was expecting judgement from my church, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised. Maybe people asked if he cheated..I think because most people see that as a deal breaker? But of course they didn’t know about the abuse.
I’m 18 months post separation and I’m now divorced. I don’t love that I’m a divorced woman but life is much better for myself and DD. I thought he’d push for 50/50 but it’s more like 80/20. He moved on within a week of moving out 🤷🏻‍♀️Is it tough financially and having to parent alone? Yes. Is it worth it not to be so miserable? Definitely.
Contact Women’s aid. Look on entitledto.com to get an idea of what support you can get. Get your ducks in a row 🐥🐥🐥 You deserve so much more than this.

Weatherwax13 · 20/09/2023 19:21

He's abusive. All these horrible men threaten suicide as a manipulation tactic, but talking about killing the whole family. That's a different level.
OP you need to take steps to get yourself and the children out of this marriage asap. And get support. Tell people he's said this. It's about the biggest red flag I've ever read on here. It's very, very important to get that threat on record.

singlemum93 · 20/09/2023 19:26

I could of written this post myself. Although not married the father of my child sounds almost exactly like this. Especially the part about getting angry and breaking things. I'm in a totally different position and not judging you because I know how hard it is. We have separated for periods of time several times and I'm lucky that I have my own house. But it's difficult when your partner has two personalities and you love one of them to death but the other one feels like you're in a prison every time it comes out? I totally get it. I constantly told myself it's ok because he would be in a good mood for a while then every time the other personality showed up it was hell. Ultimately we broke up because I just could not take anymore. I was so worried about custody of child etc and he still tries to manipulate me now in certain ways but life is 100% happier now I'm out and I wake up in a peaceful home and my son has a happier mum. You really can't put a price on feeling at peace and not walking on egg shells waiting for the next thing. You can enjoy your children more. And sometimes I think the only reason I stayed was because I cared what people think too much. But you just have to ask yourself when your old and dying are you going to regret staying or leaving?

singlemum93 · 20/09/2023 19:29

Also in terms of friends you will definitely make new ones, you will find you have more in common you never thought you would and will have lots more opportunities

Whataretalkingabout · 21/09/2023 01:59

Dear OP,
I feel so sorry for you and especially your poor children.
You and your kids are so vulnerable.
Your husband sounds like he is a completely crazy nutcase and he has brainwashed you to not see how truly dangerous he is.

For the love of God, wake up and get your values straightened out. Get yourself some serious help- counseling, legal aid, financial advice and police protection .
Stop trying to justify his behavior or your reasons to not do anything.

You cannot stay in this marriage. He sounds like the devil incarnate and has blinded you.

But do be very careful and act like everything is normal until you are ready to leave or have him thrown out.

Please keep writing us, we are here to support you.

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