Do you consider this cheating?

[Moonlight6562]

Apologies in advance if this is a long post…. It’s taken me forever to pluck up the courage to write this. I just haven’t been able to talk to anyone about it & I don’t want to tarnish my husbands name because of our children but I really need some mums advice!!!

ive been with my husband for 15 years and we have 3 beautiful children, the youngest is 2.

getting to the point… early this year I noticed my husband acting very differently and taking ALOT about another women in the office. I had my hands full with our youngest who had lots of health issues at the time so I listened but didn’t really have the time to take much notice.

fast forward 6 months he’s telling me to consider him not around Mon-Fri anymore because he’s really busy, buying new suits, diets, teeth whitening etc and still dropping in the ladies name.

once I got my strength together from our young one being poorly for nearly 2 years I got cross one night and said ‘I’m too old for this shit, what is going on with this lady’, he stood there looking startled and says ‘ would you like me to stop training with her?!’

Ok… so I’m shocked because I had no idea he was training with her & then it all comes out that they have been gym buddies at work and training and going for lunch. He told me that he never told me because she’s really attractive and didn’t want me to worry & that she is really nice and knows all about me. I had no idea who she was! It felt so creepy.

there is more to it than I can explain and we’ve had the most shit few months as a couple but he has fought for me.

my question is, 6 months on I still feel so hurt by this and have processed it as a deep betrayal. Am I just an emotional mess that or is this really hurtful? He keeps telling me he hadn’t cheated on me but it really feels like it. Do I need to get a grip??? Help mummies 😞

*Acting very differently for approximately 8 months
*Frequent Mentionitis
*Announced he’d no longer be available Mon-Fri, as he was ‘busy’
*New attention to wardrobe, fitness, dieting, teeth whitening
*Lying by omission re training with OW
*Lying by omission re lunch dates
*Physical and emotional attraction
*Shifted the blame for his double life/deception to you and your possible response to OW’s attractiveness

@Moonlight6562, this is indeed infidelity — an emotional affair, at the very least, that had escalated when he announced his unavailability.

Despite his protestations, he has cheated, as he was secretly spending an over-abundance of time with OW, whom he finds ‘very attractive and very nice,’ and changed his behavior as he invested in the validation she provided him.

Besides their daily contact at work, they found a convenient vehicle to be together via training/lunching and any messaging they’ve been doing. He redirected his emotional energy, time, attention, and reliance to her. He knew that his illicit behavior was wrong, and he had an agenda to hide that from you. That is infidelity and disloyalty.

The bottom line is, he has massively crossed your boundaries, and that is key. This is not your idea of monogamy. You are still traumatized because he has not taken responsibility for emotionally cheating or done any work (IC, readings, plugging into infidelity websites, etc.) to investigate his selfishness and entitlement to seek secret gratification elsewhere. Is he now NC with OW?

Until he shows remorse by doing all of the above, he is still in wayward mode. I couldn’t move forward with him under those circumstances. In fact, after his betrayal of trust, pursuit of OW, and web of lies, I would have already shown him the door while weighing my options.

I wholeheartedly agree with the all the resources suggested by @Fairymcclary. In Not Just Friends, Dr. Shirley Glass shows how, via weak boundaries, friendships can evolve into emotional affairs, when energy and intimacy are shifted from the primary relationship to the new person. You’ll find a wealth of information and empathy on the survivinginfidelity site.

@Moonlight6562, can you elaborate on your references to ‘more than you can explain’ and how he has ‘fought for you’?

To add to my previous post - OP, I am in a similar situation with one of my children. My DH has responded as follows:
Organised to work at home on days I am at the hospital so our other child is taken care of by him.
Asked me if I needed any of his money directed my way to help cover additional expenses.
Been there as per usual to support me in the evenings with the house and children, and with companionship.

When editing, I accidentally deleted my comments regarding his betrayal of your children, and particularly your sick child whom you have intensely cared for, for 2 years. It beggars belief that he disengaged and pursued another woman instead of being front and center in supporting you and his little ones. His actions were the epitome of a self-serving agenda and callous disregard for what you were giving and enduring. He should have been showering you with affection, gratitude, and his emotional/physical presence.

I’m glad to read that he has cut off OW and moved his office. I hope he also provided open access to his phone and other devices. You absolutely have the right to check to see if he has resumed contact with her.

Is the mentionitis, working long hours and so on still continuing?
It sounds to me like he was at least having an emotional affair.

Whether or not he had any sexual relationship with the other woman, spending time with her was a far higher priority than you or your children.

No, you are not being unreasonable. I would go batshit if my DH did this. You are running around, stressed to the nines with a poorly baby and he is dicking around having his teeth whitened, buying new clothes and going to the gym and for lunch with some “really attractive” other woman? Even without any sexual involvement (and none of us can know exactly what went on) the lack of support for you and your dc is appalling. Does he realise what a selfish, entitled, weapons grade Wanker he has been?? I would suggest that he needs therapy to work out exactly why he felt entitled to do this, because, let’s be fair, he would not have been ok if you were doing it! So, therapy for him and you watch and see. Ignore his words, they are cheap, but watch his actions. If he refuses therapy, or tries to rug sweep, you’ve got nothing to work with.

He’s done everything you can imagine to make it up to me…

He keeps telling me that he hadn’t cheated on me but it really feels like it.

@Moonlight6562, those two statements are incongruent. He hasn’t done everything. He’s not owning his transgression. He is trying to convince (manipulate) you that he only equates cheating with physical adultery. It will be impossible to move forward, rebuild trust, and find peace until he acknowledges his emotional infidelity.

He acted on his infatuation with OW. He was fully invested in this secret adventure and the feelings it engendered, to the extent of giving notice that he was unavailable to you and the children, even in the midst of your little son’s traumatic illness. (I daresay he would’ve been distraught if the shoe were on the other foot.)

…but he’s broken something in us that I’m not sure can ever be repaired. But for our beautiful children I hope I can fix it x.

@Moonlight6562, you can’t contort yourself to do that. He has to make effective efforts to heal the wound and restore your trust. He must acknowledge that he did not protect his emotional fidelity. He needs to dig deep in counseling to explore how and why he gave himself permission to lie, cheat, and abandon his family for thrills and ego cookies. He has to identify his weak character traits and deficient coping mechanisms that enabled his faithless behavior. They are still present.

Being reliant on and deeply connected to someone on an emotional level is cheating of a kind.
They might not have meant to have caused the hurt, might not have identified the deep connection until the spouse calls it.

It should be able to be forgiven, I think, if the person sees the hurt caused and changes their ways and makes it up to you in behaviour and honest communication.
Going forward with no more deception, no more training or lone meetings and, vitally, you see new and ongoing displays of affection towards you and more time spent with you.

Put it down to experience; you both now know about emotional affairs or the like and you both will steer clear of that pitfall again..
Plan cheerful, exciting family and couple outings and consentrate on making happy memories.

This^

Unless he admits and understands that he elected to open the windows and put time, energy and resources into another woman while expecting you to remain faithful he could do this again. If his behaviour was acceptable then why not tell you or suggest you meet a sexy gym man and join the party?

Usually it’s not the emotional attachment or the sex that causes the issue long term in infidelity- it’s the ability to lie (by omission) to someone you purport to love and care for. What else does he lie about. Look closely at him. Think about your history and his. What else does he hide from you, family, friends, his boss? How else does he live without integrity or incorporate lies in his life?

How does he justify his Choice. ‘You’d be upset’ so he knew what he was doing was wrong, if he came clean you would ask him to stop, so he chose to lie and hide it?
Why was lunch with lady more important than his honesty and integrity?
why has he sold out your trust to visit the gym with this woman?

Why does he have a but in his fidelity. I believe in fidelity but not if my wife doesn’t know. I believe in fidelity but not if it’s an attractive lady from work. I believe in fidelity but lunches with a woman don’t count?

He will never be safe until he gets to the very bottom of why he chose to do this. Why did he need smoke blowing up his arse? Why was this woman’s attention worth becoming a liar (lying by omission is lying). Or is he a liar and this is one step further? Why say he is unavailable Mon to Fri 9-6?

Marriages don’t cause cheating. It’s on the cheater. Vegetarians chose not to eat meat. They could eat meat if they wanted. If you took a vegetarian to the best steak restaurant in town and offered them an expensive steak they would say No. Bacon sarnie? ‘No thank you - I don’t eat meat’. It doesn’t matter how you tempt them they say No. They don’t eat meat for them. They follow their beliefs and have boundaries. It’s part of their identity, it’s their integrity. They could have a burger in secret - but they don’t.

You cannot make someone cheat. They have integrity, values and self worth or they don’t. I don’t cheat on my husband for me (he is sometimes very annoying) not him. I stood up willingly in front of people I love and said I won’t cheat. So I don’t. I chose that every day. I don’t cheat because I have to look at myself in the mirror every day and I don’t want to look at a woman who cheats on her husband and betrayed herself and her values and her self worth. My husband is my collateral damage. Nothing you did caused him to cheat. He chose to lie and sneak around like a 13 year old with cigarettes behind the bike shed. He chose to have that look knowing you would be unhappy. It’s not a mistake, it was thousands of choices he made. Why did he betray himself?

If you don’t believe him fully or think it may have gone further or has happened before then book a lie detector test. Trickle truth kills marriages. You can do them in the U.K. I’m not a massive believer in them but lots of people get a car park confessional.

Being a good husband and repairing the damage doesn’t mean doing housework, looking after his own kids and getting home on time - that’s being a basic human being. He needs counselling to work out why he made these choices with a counsellor that does not talk about unmet needs. Your needs are not being met now - are you asking a young gym man to blow smoke up your butt? Or do you recognise that would be a poor choice? Affairs are grenades in marriages and will never make them better.

Also your self esteem is at risk. You need to work on that immediately. List things you enjoy doing (or used to enjoy) and make time for them. Start on your identity. Make a list of who you are and your good points.

1. you have (presumably) been faithful - that means I stand by my word. My word can be taking as truth by my friends and family. I do what I day and I have integrity.

2. I am loyal, I care for my family because…

You need to work on the reasons. Add to them every day and read if you start doubting yourself.

Go to they gym. Exercise every day without fail. Read to make you the best person you can be. Brene brown is excellent and in YouTube/Netflix too. Take up an old interest or start a new one. Focus on you. Let him focus on healing your marriage.

fast forward 6 months he’s telling me to consider him not around Mon-Fri anymore because he’s really busy...

I look after our baby who is unwell and can’t give hubby attention so he strays…. But in the same breath it hurts so much more because I was giving everything to our children and he checked out.

Sorry you are married to a selfish arsehole.

He has three children and he thinks he can just arrange to be too busy
for family life Monday to Friday. WTF

During the time your youngest child has been unwell he has prioritised "training" with another woman. Why didn't he give a fuck about your child and what kind of man checks out because his wife is actually parenting in a challenging situation and not giving him attention.

Why is it now your job to fix this? He broke it, he broke your family by putting his own selfish wants first.

I'm unreasonably furious on your behalf whether he has actually cheated or not. He's an untrustworthy POS, I'd be showing him the door. He didn't tell you because he didn't want to worry you my arse.

One more point you say you hope you can fix it. You can’t fix it.
It’s done.

Your husband is not the man he said he was. He does not have the integrity, honesty and loyalty that you have.

He is still denying and suggesting he wasn’t cheating. He was. He is a cheater. Until he can admit that he cannot help repair your marriage. He is still lying to himself, possibly thinking he is a good father and husband.

Until he knows himself, his triggers, his issues and knows he is fully capable of cheating. He cannot be a safe husband.

Only when he faces up to himself can you heal the relationship.

As someone who also had a poorly baby in and out of hospital for nearly two years, this would not be ok. Caring for a poorly baby is so EXTRA you have to pull together to survive in tact. Instead he's working out with some pretty woman from work and living his best life.

I'm not sure I'd even care of they fucked or not, he's a dickhead and his lack of commitment to me and the kids would be hard to recover from.

God I hate men, sorry.

…but he’s broken something in us that I’m not sure can ever be repaired. But for our beautiful children I hope I can fix it x.
HE has broken your trust, why are YOU trying to fix it?
You can forgive, but he has to earn your forgiveness.

Weapons-grade Wanker sums up his behaviour. He was a husband and father who had his head turned and was thinking with his dick.
As pp, he needs to acknowledge that he fucked up.