Is this marriage salvageable?

[ConfusedDiffuseAndProfuse]

This will be long. I think I know the answer, but would appreciate the outside perspective.

Married 5 years, together 7. We have 2 DCs, 3 year old and 4 months old. We both work in professional jobs with good incomes, I am now on maternity leave with second DC.

My problem is two-fold.
One is that DH leads a lifestyle of a child less man, while having 2 planned kids. Yes, I wanted children more than he did, but nobody held a gun to his head when we were making them. Outside of nursery (while I am on mat leave older DC going to nursery two days a week, then it will be full time once I go back for both), I do all of the childcare for both children. He hasn't changed a single nappy since #2 was born, in fact he doesn't pick #2 up when he cries. 'he wants food' <I am breastfeeding>

DH's idea of disciplining is through shouting. In fact, every time I leave the room there is a 90% chance he will shout at DS(3) 'to discipline'. DS(3) is your average 3 year old, there is no out of ordinary challenging behaviour.

I do all bath times and bedtimes. I don't think he ever read a book to either of them. As a result DS(3) is not bonded to him. The only time DH spent one on one time with DS(3) is when I was in hospital having #2. He also does minimal housework, but is a messy person.

I knew he is not exactly the dad of the year when going for #2, but he didn't really shout when we had only one child and he had better mood.

This brings me to his personality. For past several months constantly irritable, he is always moaning about something or annoyed at something. Walks through the door and starts complaining. In addition, something always hurts. It's nothing major, a sore finger, or a headache, or a random pulled muscle etc.

He is glued to his phone All. Day. Long. While I am running around keeping the house going and sorting out two kids, he is on the sofa on his phone, no matter if it's bedtime, bathtime or apocalypse. More often than not I have to say things twice before he registers I am addressing him. It's really wearing. I find it a lot easier when he is not at home. Needless to say he never did any of the night wakes for any of the children.

I am tired. I am really annoyed he shouts at DC(3) and does literally nothing with DS#2. His constant moods are a drag. In turn I just shut down and focus on the kids. I try to be a more affectionate wife, but all of the above makes my undercarriage shut tight.

His good qualities are: he is very intelligent, interesting conversation (when he bothers, that it), very loyal, hardworking.

So, my question is, do I keep trying to do something about the above or do I call it quits and separate?

In case of separation, he would probably push for 50:50 which would break my heart.

Assuming you’ve addressed the issues with him already and he hasn’t changed, no, it isn’t salvageable. What would salvaged look like for you anyway? Could you ever go back to feeling the way you (presumably) once did about him? Honestly though, I think you’re better off on your own; you’ve said as much yourself in your OP.

Why do you think he'd ask for 50-50 when it's about 99-1 at the moment?

This. He won't parent his own kids now, why would he do even more when you've split?

He's a lazy arse who appears to have already checked out. Life would be easier and less stressful without him, wouldn't it?

I'm going to say yes it's salvageable, because you have a 3 month old plus a preschooler. That's about as tough as it gets. Therefore it could generally be better than this. Life is long and I do think some men are just shit at parenting at this age. It's not right but they do sometimes get better at it when the children are older.

He has to want to salvage it, though (so do you). He sounds pretty checked out at the moment.

Is there an option to get to neutral ground together (babysitter etc) and talk honestly about whether you both actually want to keep trying?

If you do, I'd suggest a parenting course, because you're never going to want to shag someone who treats your 3 year old so badly.

I went through something similar last year OP - ex husband was an ok dad to our eldest but looking back maybe I didn't see what he didn't do with her (like you I did all bath times, bed times, read books etc) - when twins came along that was when it fell apart - turns out like he was an ok dad to one but awful dad to 3. We were divorced by the time the twins turned 2.

Does he have 50/50?? Er no! He doesn't have any over nights - unless he uses custody to reduce CMS maintenance fathers like him generally don't push for 50/50

"His good qualities are: he is very intelligent, interesting conversation (when he bothers, that it), very loyal, hardworking".

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?.
You've got to admit that your relationship bar is so pitifully low the barrel is being scraped if you can cite these as his good points. As for the he's very loyal comment it sounds like you are describing a dog.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships?. What are they learning here currently from you two?.

Do yourself and your kids a favour and start making plans to separate from your H. This is in no way salvagable because he is a lazy ass sod who will continue to remain so. He is also not above shouting at your 3 year old and does nothing with either child. Is this really a man you yourself want to be around?.

He can and likely could well shout about 50/50 but that would in all likelihood be done as an attempt to exert more power and control over you. He knows your achilles heel here is the children. Given how little he does with either child now he does not want 50/50 at all; its a time honoured tactic used by many abusive men to bring their possession aka woman to heel.

Yes its salvageable

Number 1 - you are 4 months post partum. Don't make any life changing decisions unless you absolutely must.

Number 2 - lots and lots of why questions need answering.

Why does he sit and relax while you work with the children

Why have you been OK with that for 3 years?

Why have you not spoken to him about it, on a serious 'this is relationship ending' basis?

Why would he ignore your requests for help, if he knew you were serious.

There'll be loads more. Some of those why questions will require you to see yourself in a bad light and have to explain your whys. Some will show him in a bad light and he'll need to explain his whys to you. These may raise even more questions.

One example of this could be:
W - why don't you help with the kids H
H - Because when I do, you repeatedly tell me I must parent your way. I'm not you and can't be you.
W - My way is best. If there was a better way, I'd do it.
Maybe agreeing that different isn't better or worse will make him feel less criticised and so achieve your wish of him helping more?

It is salvageable, if you both want to salvage it.

You need to have a serious conversation with him. That will give you your answer.

I would want him to agree to some relationship counselling and to see a GP about his moods as a first step. I'd need him to agree that the current situation is unacceptable and communicate to you why he thinks that is and what can change. If he isn't willing to engage in this way then you know, not that the relationship isn't salvageable, but that he doesn't want to salvage it.

Keep your undercarraige shut tight!!! Mine are aged 6 and 10. He didn't get better, bare minimum only when he had to. Hence in process of separation. The resentment will kill off anything thats left. Good luck

Why do you think he'd push for 50/50? He isn't an involved or enthusiastic father now. Do you think he'd do it to punish you? If so, I wouldn't make decisions on that basis. It sounds likely on the face of it that he'd very quickly lose interest and become more of a EOW Disney dad (or more likely, a EOW "let's hang out at Grandma's so she can do all the donkey work" dad).

Why would you think he'd push for 50:50 when he doesn't do any parenting? The upside of separating from a man like this is that you will most likely retain the majority care of your DC and they will adjust really well because they are used to their dad doing nothing with them and so don't miss him.

I am speaking from experience here (albeit very new experience!) as I had exactly the life you describe up to very recently.

I waited until my youngest was school age then took the plunge, as I couldn't bear the thought of my children being left unsupervised with his shitty parenting when they were tiny and vulnerable. I wouldn't have been able to deal with the worry and guilt so I stuck around and tried desperately to make it work and it did get marginally better/easier over time but not because my husband or yours will suddenly become dad of the year, it's just because children get easier/less demanding as they leave toddlerhood.

It's only salvageable if you push down your frustration and resentment indefinitely... and that's no way to live.

Thank you for all the replies, I find them very helpful.

Why I think he will go for 50/50, he has a mean streak in him and just as @AttilaTheMeerkat suggested I expect him to use this to press on my sorest point of we come to a divorce. Also, public image is important to him, and that would be another reason why at least he would want to be seen to be going for 50/50.

What would salvageable look like to me? I want him to be present in our lives, not being in a parallel reality on his phone all the time. I want him willingly to participate in his kids' lives and want to play with them, rather than complain about toys being all over the living room.

Re expectations and housework, I hear you @Woush . Having done this pretty much by myself, yes I have developed systems to get everything done. I don't expect him to follow them. Quite frankly I don't care how he does housework as long as it's done and disappears off my to do list 😬 I am talking things like dirty laundry into the basket, not on the floor; or tidying away dishes off the table after eating into the kitchen, tidy the toys at the end of the day etc. I don't expect him to suddenly start sparking joy just because I Marie Kondo-ed the drawers.
I guess beforehand I just cracked on with things, but now things are worse than they were I am more aware of them.

I have two boys, and I don't want them to think this is a good model to follow.

Lots to think about.

You need to speak to him really directly and clearly along the lines of you're disappointed in how he's turning out as a dad / husband. Something has to change because you're not happy. Either he pulls his finger out or that's it.

Do nothing rash.

Get quietly organised over the next couple of years.

Pay for a cleaner etc.

Tell family and friends the truth.

Keep them close to you and build your network of support around you.

On his phone all the time?
Could he be cheating?

Withdraw emotionally and avoid sex.

With a bit of luck he'll have an affair and bugger off.

While the baby is small just try and detach and get through this.

I'm sorry it is so hard.

At least stop doing his laundry. I’m very clear in this house - I throw any stuff in the floor into the bottoms of wardrobes. That goes for DS2 as well. DS 1 does his own laundry.

Tell him straight - I’m not picking up after a lazy arsed man. Either it goes in the basket or you can sort it out yourself.

A lady near us takes even more drastic measures - opens the landing window and chucks it into the garden.

But to be honest, it sounds like the messiness is not the main problem. The shouting at the DC has to stop. If he won’t/can’t, then you need to be making on and to separate. If he threatens 50/50 he needs to learn that he can’t blackmail you with that. You’ll have to practise appearing to be fine with that and perhaps even to get time to yourself.