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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

any advice from people who have separated welcome

9 replies

tobefree · 03/03/2008 13:26

Hi - a long story. After about 4 years of coping with oh's anger day in and day out (not physical but verbal) and his unemployment now heading for two years. I decided to talk about separation. It did not go well and his response was "well if I go you will never see me again", "It's not me - it's you" etc etc - anyway decided to give things another go and said that:

  • he needed to get help with his anger
  • he needed to get a life (at that time he had no friends, no hobbies, no interests) etc
  • he needed to get a job - any job

Anyway - he had an appointment with a therapist which was postponed 3 weeks - now the 13th march, still has no job and no idea on how to get one, and still has no life and has taken no steps towards getting one. However - at least the anger was controlled. But this weekend it started again - and it occurred to me that it has been a month and there is no change.

I have also realised that there is too much water under the bridge and I have simply no feelings towards him at all.

I don't want to hurt my kids as they adore their dad but I cannot carry on like this.

Anyone "been there and done that" - did the kids manage ok? Mine are 8 and 10. Why do I feel like a monster taking an action which will take their daddy away.

Any advise appreciated.

OP posts:
Citronella · 03/03/2008 15:22

been there and still not quite out of it yet.
I think it depends how much energy and fight you still have in you to make this work or 'put up' with it for longer. In the long run you might feel you cannot force anyone to do anything because that is what you would expect a 'normal' person to be doing. In the end you will have to think about you, the effect all of this has on you and your kids and and whether you can carry on like that or need to change what you can rather than what you can't. My situation, similar to yours in some respects, went on for much longer and it took a few false starts for me to make the final decision to get out. It has not been easy and it's not over yet. I don't know how the kids will manage yet (they are a bit younger than yours) but I try to explain some things as I go along where appropriate and try to ensure they don't forget they are loved to bits by both mummy and daddy. If your oh doesn't see how critical things are now and that it takes two to make things work then he cannot just blame you.
Don't know if that's much help but there is also a support thread you are welcome to join us on. Can't do links but it's for those contemplating or going through a break up.

Good luck

MuthaHubbard · 03/03/2008 16:44

tobefree - everyone has a limited and it sounds like you could be close to yours.

Any chance of you seeing a counsellor/therapist together? Do you think you could get feelings back for him?

I instigated the split with my h, which is still going on at the moment. My dc are 5 and 13 and, even though I still feel guilt, I know that I am doing the right thing. I just could not face being this lonely and unloved within a relationship for another 5 years or longer....and I didn't want them to think that an adult relationship is devoid of affection, love and caring.

MuthaHubbard · 03/03/2008 16:44

has a limit - tut!!

tobefree · 05/03/2008 08:56

The real truth is that if we did not have kids I would have left years ago. I do not honestly think that I have anouther 2 years even with this man. The only thing that holds me back is the heartbreak asking/telling him to leave is going to cause my two precious children.

MuthaHubbard - how did your kids cope?

OP posts:
MuthaHubbard · 05/03/2008 17:02

Lord - if I had a pound for everytime I've said that if it wasn't for the kids I would have left, I'd be rich!

I am still going through this tbf - he is currently looking for a flat to rent (think he is going to take the one he's going to look at again tomorrow) and we decided not to tell them until he is ready to move out to avoid confusion.

I am not so worried about my 5 yr old (she has chatted about other children in her class who's parents are 'vorced' and she thinks it would be a good idea as she's have two bedrooms etc!!). My 13 yr old I'm most worried about as he can be quite emotional. From comments he's made I think he knows things are about to change - like asking why we no longer sleep in the same bed. Obviously he will be upset to start with (which will nearly kill me) but I know that happier parents, even though we are apart, will mean a happier home life for him in the long run.

Fingers crossed!!

TLV · 05/03/2008 19:41

ok this is a little long winded, but i'm currently going thru a divorce not my choice (we did not have a violent/abusive relationship we just encountered I think what people term the 4yr itch) so I started doing research and the effects of divorce on kids, whilst some marriages will never stand a chance of being saved I think people can be somewhat misguided when it comes to the kids (my stbx dh!!) some people will either agree or disagree with the research i found below

In the early 1970?s, Judith Wallerstein, began to study the effects of divorce on children. She studied a group of 131 children and their families who were going through the divorce process over a period of 25 years. In her book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: A 25 Year Landmark Study, published in 2000, we learn that children really aren?t ?resilient? and that divorce leaves children to struggle for a life-time with the residue of a decision their parents made.

According to Ms. Wallerstein, ?If the truth be told, and if we are able to face it, the history of divorce in our society is replete with unwarranted assumptions that adults have made about children simply because such assumptions are congenial to adult needs and wishes. The myths that continue to guide our divorce policies and politics today stem from these direct attitudes.?

In other words we have become a society of adults who put their own needs and happiness before the emotional well-being of their children and justify it all by buying into the myth that children are resilient or time heals all wounds.

Myth #1: If Parents Are Happy Their Children Will be Happy Also :
I?m sure you have heard someone say that if they divorce and are able to lead a happier life that their children will be happier also. The idea behind this myth is that a happy mum or dad automatically means happy children.

People who use this justification are projecting their own feelings onto their children. They are objectifying their children out of a need to find happiness for themselves without having to feel responsible for causing their children emotional pain. They are failing to understand that, though they may be unhappy, their children are probably quite content and don?t care if their parents don?t get along as long as their family is together.

When you introduce a child to the world of divorce, you are altering every aspect of their life. That kind of change is hard to adjust to for adults. Imagine what it must be like for children who are not old enough to reason and intellectualize the situation?

Fact:

Children of divorce are more aggressive toward their parents and teachers. They experience more depression, more learning difficulties and problems getting along with their peers. They are three times more likely to be referred for psychological help. They become sexually active earlier, they are more likely to produce children out of wedlock and they are three times as likely to divorce themselves or to never marry.

A child?s happiness is not dependent on their parent?s happiness. A child?s happiness stems from routine, having a home, two parents, friends to play with, school activities to be involved in and being able to count on those things being constant day in and day out.

Myth #2: The Less Animosity And Bitterness The Less Trauma :
It is true that fighting and conflict exacerbate the trauma but there are those who believe that if they are able to get along then there children will suffer no lasting negative effects from the divorce. There seems to be a universal belief that the children will end up happy and content with their new life as long as the parents aren?t fighting.

Fact:

This misguided belief is not only harmful to our children but to the adults involved in the divorce process also. Divorce, at it?s best cannot be considered an amicable process. No matter how hard we try there will be bad feelings. Most divorces are not unilateral. One or the other parent is going to feel betrayed and hurt. Those feelings will trickle down to the children no matter how hard you try to conceal them. To think that all will be fine as long as the divorce process goes off without a hitch is unwise for all involved.

According to Ms. Wallerstein,?the parent?s anger at the time of the breakup is not what matters most. Unless there was violence or abuse, a child has dim memories of what transpired during this supposedly critical period.? What was most painful and caused the most long-term negative effects for children is the sadness of their family breaking up, the anger they were not able to express, having to adjust to one parent no longer living in the home. The loss of control over activities because of forced visitation, the loss of two full-time parents in their lives, the sadness they feel around friends from intact families. The change in the economic status that all children experience when their parent?s divorce.

It is the aftermath of divorce, not the process of divorce that does our children the most harm. Don?t buy into the belief that once the process is over all will find a happy ending.

MuthaHubbard · 05/03/2008 23:05

I think a lot of the above depends on the way a couple divorce.

I don't for a moment beleive that there are no effects whatsoever on a child with divorced parents. My mum and dad divorced when I was 15 and to be honest it hasn't really affected me very much, only that I know my dad hurt my mum and behaved like a prize arse, something he totally admits to now. Of course I hated that my mum was upset but she became a very strong woman and I am very proud of her. The only way it has affected me is in that I would rather be happy within a relationship or have the guts to change it or call it a day if not.

I have never been aggresive, suffered from depression, have loads of friends and became sexually active at the appropriate age and had no learning difficulties. Neither has my sister.

What I don't agree with is that a child doesn't care if their parents get on or not. Really? Would they rather have parents who have constant slanging matches and fights but stay together for the sake of the family? I'm sure a lot of now grown up children would feel awful to know that they were responsible for their parents unhappiness and pain because they 'stayed together for the sake of the children'.

I totally understand that a child will be upset and emotional during a change such as this. Anyone would be, it's only natural.

There was an article written recently by a fellow mnetter, which I have a copy of and was written for Easy Living magazine. It provided studies that showed that it's the way you handle divorce rather than the process that matters. It also shows that several years after a divorce, the children are happy and have moved on with their lives, and that four out of five children where happy with their new situation.

tobefree · 06/03/2008 11:19

I raised this question with my counsellor yesterday - I had read the research that TLV has cited as it worries me massively. It was interesting that she said while she is not familiar with that particular research parents who are in conflicted marriages and keep going for the kids actually create more problems. Children sense the reality they are being presented with is not real and this can create massive feelings of insecurity. My Mom stayed married for the sake of the kids and I have to be honest and say that I wish she hadn't for exactly the reasons the counsellor stated. My sister (now 21) agrees - she has known all her life that this was the situation and wishes she was never burdened and she does feel guilt - and has done so for most of her life. Now my Mom has never ever said or done anything to indicate she was unhappy and carried on as if nothing was wrong but we all somehow knew.

Also - if I stay with this man who 1) can't be bothered to find a job 2) takes no responsibility for anything 3) takes his anger out on everyone else 4) says mean and undermining things - what message am I sending to my kids? Am I happy to accept that by my actions of staying my daughter grows up feeling that this is an acceptable situation and my son grows up thinking it is ok to treat woman like this? The more I think about it and the more people I talk too the more I feel that while painful and horrible, even life changing, me and my kids will frankly be better on our own.

After yesterday I am resolute that the right course of action is to separate. It is a question now of supporting the kids as best I can, loving them with all my heart and doing my bit to make sure they have the opportunity to have a healthy relationship with their Dad.

Sorry this post is so long.

OP posts:
Anniegetyourgun · 06/03/2008 13:01

That book sounds more than a little one-sided tbh.

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