STBEXH child access and shift work

[Namechangeforareason23]

Just wondering if anyone has any insight to co-parenting with someone who works shifts.
STBEX wants us to do 50/50 childcare but he is only available on his days off. He says it works out as equal access if its calculated over a 3 month period.

I work 9-5 Mon - Fri. I have to pay for childcare Mon - Fri unless he is available (luckily I have a very flexible childminder). If there are any times the children are sick it will be down to me to take a day off work. He doesn't pay maintance.

This feels very unfair to me - what if I decided I could only parent when I wasn't at work?!! I feel like the pressure is on me to work things around HIS schedule - he doesn't see it this way at all.

I am also concerned that it will not be good for the children - they will never have certainly of where they will be and when. Its very messy in my opinion.

He is supposed to have them two days this week - but he had said on Friday he cant have them until the evening as he has a medical appointment. So I have had to sort childcare. Also some days he arranges to collect the children from the childminder at 2-pm even though he ism back from work at 11 or 12. Again I am the one paying for childcare.

He is a slippery gaslighty emotional abuser and due to that I find it difficult to get my point across as he twists everything. We are in the middle of a very messy divorce and things are difficult - he wants a huge payout of the house that I cant afford and is fighting me tooth and nail even thought its HIS actions that resulted in the breakdown of our marriage.

Of course I want him to have a good relationship with the kids and am very flexible but he constantly pushes boundaries and tries to manipulate me so any advice from someone in a similar boat would be appreciated.

If he wants 50/50 then it’s up to him to provide and pay for childcare when he has them. So starting point for me would be a week with you, a week with him. It’s not fair to mess around kids round his shift, nor is it fair he expects you to payout childcare and not him

get legal advice

If he wants 50/50 then he'll need to commit to having the kids on a regular pattern. If this doesn't fit in with his shifts then he'll either have to arrange childcare or he can't do 50/50.

Hopefully someone will be along who can help but as I understand it because 50:50 means that he doesn't have to pay maintenance that means that all childcare costs, arrangements and parenting is down to him during 'his' time. Therefore he would have to pay and arrange the childminder etc. It does not sound like he is fully appreciating what 50:50 means.

However I would be more worried about the children's routine. I don't know how old they are but sounds like they are quite young and, as you say, they need to know where they stand. I think consistency with schoolwork, spellings, reading any homework is going to be hard to manage.

Would he be open to mediation?

Good Luck 💐

Working around shifts isn’t including you having quality time . So I would not be looking at 50/50 unless he is prepared to do a week on week off . I would be insisting on Eow be with you so that you get quality time with your Dc.
it isn’t for you to cover child care for his medical appointments .

Go on the maintenance calculators online. Even if you are 50/50 he will still have to pay maintenance. If he still won’t just go through them. People who don’t pay for their children make my blood boil!
With regards to contact I think it is really tricky with these ‘funny’ shift patterns. I would imagine a better set up would be however many weekends he can have and the rest just over nights perhaps one or two a week even if they vary. Really he should give you a shift pattern. I think 50/50 is a bit of an imposition on both you and the children. You could always try and get some mediation then at least it is someone impartial but they will have an idea of how to handle it and how the courts would typically settle things.
a lot of people want to have 60/50 to negate their financial responsibilities but he has that anyway - he obviously just doesn’t realise - so see if he still wants the same contact once you update him with that.

The best option for your situation is for you pay 50 and Ex pays 50% for Child care every month..

If he is not available to take the children for a full week every second week. Which I am certain he will refuse due to his work, It is unrealistic for him to state he can only mind the children when he is not working shifts.

He knows exactly what he is doing. You have a full time job too.
The children need to be minded daily after pick up from Child care.

The best working solution would be - Children go to child care every day.
You pick up the children 3 days one week - He picks up 2 days. Vice Versa.

If he is working weekends - that's an additional complication. You both need to sit down and work out what is the monthly schedule. His appointments outside working hours is not your concern. He needs to work around the children and when he has them.

Its not easy but it is doable - only if he works with you!

He needs to take into account you have a job too, that is the crux of the problem, he wants all of you, children included to work around his shifts so he doesn't have to pay maintenance, doesn't work like that.

Yes children are very young. Pre school & just starting primary. I definitely worry about routine homework school comms etc. I don't think it's fair on them or me.

We are in Mediation but its not working he's gaslighting me saying I have been and continue to be abusive!! He's the abusive one and is still trying to control me.

He will never think of anyone bur himself and will never be fair with me about anything.

During your mediation, just focus on why you are there - the kids. They can see through things, so don’t worry.
Can you give an example of how he gaslights you during the session. Let’s see if we can help with a good response?
have you tried the maintenance calculator? Have you discussed this in meditation?

OP your children are way too young for the nonsense he is suggesting. Just repeat to him over and over that the children’s needs are best served by a routine. Do not budge from this. Shift work is not family friendly but that is his problem, not your problem. Your priority is the children and their needs.
He is trying to rattle you so you accept what he wants.

He has all these 'incidents ' written in his stupid little notebook and keeps going on and that he won't let me stop him having his kids. He said in our last session that things had gone from bad to worse & he was at breaking point with my 'antics '. In reality he was trying to get me to agree to 2 'family' days a month for the sake if the kids. Days out to park/pool etc. He also wants to quit mediation because he wants to sit down just the two of us.

Full of contradictions!

So when he comes out with his bullshit statements I would follow it up with an explanation to the mediator. So what you could say is, whilst it sounded like a lovely idea for the children initially my worry is they would be confused. Also as we are no longer together, in my opinion, the more contact we have the more likely there is going to be conflict which I am really keen to avoid for the sake of the children. I also understand that it is really important for ex to have quality time with the children but thank you for offering to share that. It’s all about creating new boundaries. Take a moment to pause. Keep your own diary. Write notes. Don’t slag him off, be choosy with your wording so as to not be confrontational . That would be my best advise.

Who cares what he says? State very clearly that the kids need a regular, predictable routine for their own well-being and that since he doesn’t have them 50:50, he can’t pick and choose what suits him until he pays maintenance and childcare on HIS days if he can’t/won’t have them.

@Namechangeforareason23

I have been through a tough divorce. And a few of my friends have gone through the same - and here is perspective on what you ate going through.

He is doing exactly what many (most?) men do.

On financials - they try to force you to accept a really unfair split. They try intimidation. They say they contributed more and you were just a wife/mother/on lower salary, etc. Anything to make you believe you don't actually deserve half of everything…. They are often very forceful with their campaign and grind women to submission as it becomes unbearable.

On child arrangement - its like they all ge the same script. ‘You wont take my kids away. I will be an equal parent…’ Etc. But with no understanding of what is actually required for a 50/50. And with no intention of making necessary changes in their
life patterns. And certainly - with no consideration of what is actually best for kids.
(as you are in the early phase of your divorce - i do think some of the above os driven by shock and their fear of loosing their kids. Doesnt make it easier to deal with, but still)

In my opinion - there is very little chance that you will reach an agreement in mediation at this stage. Not unless you agree to a really unfair settlement and a really bad child arrangement where you’ll be constantly bending over backward to suit him.

He is way too angry and scared to be able to reach a fair agreement. He isnt yet ready to accept reality. He still thinks he can force you to give him what he wants.

Unfortunately - the only way to deal with all of that is to wait and fortify yourself. Dont try to convince him, or get him to see your point of view. Just stay strong within the boundaries you defined. And dont bend.
DO NOT agree to one-on-one conversations. Its only to push you even further. If he has a proposal - let him do it in writing.

Get your solicitor to actually apply to have a court date. Not because you want to gp to court - but as a signal that you mean business and wont be forced to accept anything leas than a fair settlement.
The date would be long in the future - but it’ll give you a defined timeframe. Or - these mediations and side discussions will be going on and on.

As to the children’s schedule. You are absolutely right - kids NEED a proper routine and a well defined schedule. In 50/50 arrangement - it has to be either week on/week off; or split week 3daya/4days that iterate.
Adhoc schedule built around his shifts and medical appointments - is NOT what any Family Court Judge would sign off on.

So - in your place - any time he brings it up in mediation - i ‘d simply say: This is not a schedule that is in our children’s best interests. I will not agree to that and am willing to have Family Court review out situation and decide what is best.

(i actually had my exH do the same. Proposing something ridiculous with our kids schedule. Discussing/arguing was pointless - so i kept firm. It was tough - probably the hardest thing i have ever done in my life. But i was fighting for what was best for the kids.
And in the end - after months of it all - he realised i meant it. And he also calmed down a bit and could hear/accept reality and that Court wont just give him what he wants.)

So - i am sorry you are going through this. Its tough. You will make it.
Just - stay strong and remind yourself that you are fighting so your kids have a beyter life.
Dont let your guilt ofer initiating divorce make you accept an easier path by jist agreeing and giving him what he wants.

It will be OK.

@Namechangeforareason23 firstly well done for leaving the bastard.

Great advice on here.. just wanted to add, only communicate with him via texts and keep screenshots. this will be evidence against him especially regarding last minute changes/unreasonable demands by him. I think there might be a specific app for this as well? other mumsnetters will be more knowledgeable....

keep notes of all childcare arrangements week by week as well as expenses for children. all of this will help build your case.

and through all this remember, he has no power over this, he doesn't get to decide what happens. and none of his bullshit will hold water in court.

Are you mediating together? Look up separate mediation where you are in different rooms and the mediator shuttles between you. This means you have the breathing space to think and get your point across with clarity.

Also, if you think the mediator you currently have is a bit wishywashy, ask for one who takes no shit is more strong minded.

Do what's best for the dc, I'd suggest one week on, one week off. If that clashes with his shifts he'll have to arrange a childminder. The same goes for you of course.

There's no way I'd ever fit in and around his shifts. It's not fair on the dc or you.

Let him put these things in his little book, let him take you to court, in fact in your shoes id go this route to nail down contact. The judge will see right through him, they are well versed in the tricks of abusive people.

You can’t mediate with an abuser, you need to speak to a solicitor. If abuse has been sighted as one of the reasons for divorce I find it ridiculous that mediation has even been suggested. Only speak to him through a solicitor from now on.

Mediation doesn't work with abusive people. My advice is to tell the mediator this, do it separately or just go the legal route. No judge will agree to arrangements based on a flexible work rota. They want to see clean breaks with formal arrangements.

I think you’re going to have to go to court to get a watertight childcare arrangement order set up.
In the meantime, make it very clear that you will agree to 50/50 on a set basis. So either alternate weeks, or 4 days with you, 4 days with him. He needs to make arrangements for paying for childcare when the children are with him.
You also need to sign up to a co-parenting app. This allows communication via the app that can be monitored and helps avoid face to face arguments.
https://www.family-action.org.uk/content/uploads/2021/06/Family-Action-Polaris-co-parenting-apps-2020.pdf
This man is a bully, do not let him bully you into anything you cannot agree to.

just picking up on this thread - I wondered how you got on as I’m in a similar situation

Shift work is very difficult with shared care. My ex does shifts (12 hrs, 2 days, 2 nights) for the first year he had the 2 children one night a week separately. He was perfectly happy with this but after a year it began to feel very unfair that I had no child free time and was still doing almost all the cooking, cleaning, laundry etc (and he was paying maintenance based on having both children two nights a week - but deducting the new furniture repayments for his new home and the dogs insurance !) When I brought it up he completely flipped and insisted he wanted 50:50 a week on and off. This would have meant my young teenagers home alone 2 dinner times and 2 overnights which I wouldn't agree to - and more importantly they didnt want. We settled on a 4:3 night split but the reality is he has to drop one night every single week due to work, so only ever does 2 nights a week (and never offers to swap an alternative). My partner has 50:50 with his children but they do 2 days one week, 5 the next, so 2 set weekdays they are responsible for school run and paying for or arranging after school care, then every other weekend. This works well as everyone has set days they are funding and a fair amount of free time.