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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Kissing on the Lips (Prompted by Women's World Cup final)

22 replies

Cheshirerat23 · 27/08/2023 18:40

The situation with the head of the Spanish FA, Luis Rubiales, kissing a female player, Jenni Hermoso on the lips at last week’s World Cup Final and the furore that has followed has made me question my own situation. I’m now 59, my wife is 55. I met my wife 23 years ago and we’ve been married 20 years. When I met my wife, I lived in another part of the country, and she used to visit me. I eventually moved down to her and we got a place together. My friend, whose 2 years older than me, used to visit (or we’d visit him). My wife got on very well with him and really liked him as they had a lot of interests in common – I must emphasise he is not a womaniser or a player although he has a GSOH & is very friendly, so I was probably a bit naïve about the situation and trusted him. The visits were regular to start with but then became less frequent, partly because he started to date someone. He then married himself so the four of us used to meet up maybe 2 or 3 times a year at each other’s houses, where we would always stay over. It had probably been going on for a while (in fact I know it had), but I started to notice that when we did meet, he always complimented my wife on her dress sense, which I know she liked, would often give her a big hug, sometimes lifting her off the floor, and kiss her on the lips – or at least try to. One time they were leaving our house after a weekend visit and he casually kissed my wife on the lips as they said “goodbye”. After I asked her about it and if he’d done it before and she replied, “Oh about a dozen times and sometimes when we meet up too.” After that I started to pay a bit more attention to him and noticed that he did indeed try to kiss my wife on the lips and often she tried to move her head to one side and would then laugh embarrassedly as their heads would clash but at other times he was “successful”. I remember one time we’d been out for a meal and walked back over the road to the car park, I was about to get into our car, but my friend was talking to my wife; then, out of the blue, he hugged her and gave her a big kiss on the lips, the same thing happened in another car park when we’d meet up for the day. After my wife said, “I knew he was going to do that” and even I could tell he’d been manoeuvring and waiting for an opportunity! Obviously, his wife used to see it too and she didn’t seem to mind at all. When I used to speak to my wife about it, she used to just say that sometimes she did feel a bit uncomfortable but “some people like to kiss on the lips” and there was nothing in it. I think she felt, because he was my friend, she didn’t like to make a fuss. Due to this Rubiales situation I’ve spoken to her about it again (we’ve not seen my friend for a few years now) and although she’s not deeply offended by it by any means she does now accept that perhaps he should not have done it and was a “bit forward” but she’s certainly not in the Jenni Hermoso camp! What do others think?

OP posts:
category12 · 27/08/2023 18:49

Sounds like he's a pest and taking opportunities to cross the line while feigning it's just exuberance/friendly.

Is he lifting you up and giving you a smacker when he sees you?

Lovingitallnow · 27/08/2023 18:51

If it's not a big deal why don't you try and kiss him and his wife on the lips. Your wife has been turning her head and trying to avoid him for 23 years. If it wasn't that big a deal she'd just kiss him back.

Graphista · 27/08/2023 20:47

Wow! Your poor wife!

She clearly is not someone who feels confident tackling this...arsehole/situation herself so PLEASE do so for her.

This is at heart sexual assault - albeit arguably "minor" but it's still unacceptable and unwanted behaviour!

IF you are going to be seeing him again (although I wonder why you'd WANT to remain friends) then you need, before you and especially your wife, sees him in person again, tell him to pack it in! In no uncertain terms!

Brightandshining · 27/08/2023 20:54

If she was dodging him all the time he must've known she wasn't 100% comfortable with it so why did he continue to do it? That's so grim. I hate men like that. They feel they have a right to touch you however they like regardless of how you feel about it. Glad women speak up more now days.
I had an incident when younger where there was a guy friend who used to just encroach. Like he'd put his hands on your thighs when talking to you or stroke your hair.. or just something a touch too invasive. Like in every interaction. And I remember at a party once he put his hand on my inner thigh when he'd sat down next to me and I just slapped him. And at the time everyone was angry with me. All our mutual friends were angry with me calling me uptight and saying he didn't mean anything by it he's just an affectionate person...
He actually a few years later raped a mutual acquaintance.
It's a massive red flag when a man completely ignores a woman's boundaries and personal space. Especially if she is obviously nervous or uncomfortable about it.

SweetcornFritter · 27/08/2023 23:01

My FIL often used to try and kiss my on the lips, having moistened them in readiness. I used to dread it. I don’t think of it as abuse, just a bit inappropriate. I think the same about the current footballing brouhaha too.

category12 · 27/08/2023 23:08

I think times are changing for the better - it's not OK for people to be pushy and physical with someone who isn't consenting - and it's good this gets called out more.

Women shouldn't have to fend off inappropriate touching and kissing from so-called friends or even family members. It's predatory behaviour hiding in plain sight.

VikingVolva · 27/08/2023 23:11

If she's not "in the Jenni Hermoso camp" I really would be wondering why she feels unable to speak up about unwanted physical contact.

Insommmmnia · 27/08/2023 23:16

My DH had a friend who used to try to kiss me on the lips

He doesn't any more, he had no time for someone who wasn't willing to change his behaviour when he made women uncomfortable

Why on earth are you going along with this when you can see your wife is uncomfortable and trying to avoid the behaviour

pizzaHeart · 27/08/2023 23:17

Is he lifting you up and giving you a smacker when he sees you?
this^ of course not , that’s why he is a twat.
I hope next time you see him you won’t allow him to kiss your wife on the lips and do anything she’s uncomfortable with.
I wonder if she didn’t feel she could raise her objections due to your friendship, hopefully now she will get support from you.

I hate even hugging tbh, if you want to express your feelings - you can open your mouth and speak up.

Starseeking · 27/08/2023 23:21

Think about if this man were to kiss your (hypothetical) DD on the lips in the same manner, and her feeling uncomfortable and not able to say anything, and whether you'd still be fine with it.

nocoolnamesleft · 27/08/2023 23:26

Your poor wife, being subjected to repeated exposure to an unrepentant sex pest.

Dery · 27/08/2023 23:27

Is he lifting you up and giving you a smacker when he sees you?
this of course not , that’s why he is a twat. ^
I hope next time you see him you won’t allow him to kiss your wife on the lips and do anything she’s uncomfortable with.
I wonder if she didn’t feel she could raise her objections due to your friendship, hopefully now she will get support from you.

This. It’s just not okay. In my view, kissing on the mouth is for lovers and it’s a huge boundary violation for your friend to be kissing your wife on the lips. It’s predatory. And why should your wife be having to fend off your so-called friend?

SheilaFentiman · 27/08/2023 23:55

Your friend is an arse

234vhh · 28/08/2023 00:00

VikingVolva · 27/08/2023 23:11

If she's not "in the Jenni Hermoso camp" I really would be wondering why she feels unable to speak up about unwanted physical contact.

Agree - what was present in her childhood that taught her she was safer if she let it slide when her physical boundaries were crossed?

VikingVolva · 28/08/2023 16:15

According to BBC, there is a press conference due at 17:30 BST with Víctor Francos, the head of the government's Higher Sports Council and secretary of state for sport to explain measures he plans to take in relation to the Rubiales crisis.

BBC also reporting that Spanish prosecutors are opening a preliminary investigation to see if what took place was a sexual assault.

billy1966 · 28/08/2023 16:29

Your friends is an utter creep and your wife is super tolerant.

He would give me the creeps.

billy1966 · 28/08/2023 16:31

SweetcornFritter · 27/08/2023 23:01

My FIL often used to try and kiss my on the lips, having moistened them in readiness. I used to dread it. I don’t think of it as abuse, just a bit inappropriate. I think the same about the current footballing brouhaha too.

🤢🤮ffs

Stardust1976 · 28/08/2023 16:32

Hi there mums,
Im really pissed off and I’d like to hear if you believe I’m in the wrong for something… hubby and I have been married for 16 years.. we’ve gone through many (many many) ups and downs but have always stuck through. The other day hubby had my phone and found that I’ve been “checking out guys” on Facebook. I legitimately have not been checking out guys, but I mean Facebook tracks your every move and sometimes I’ll click on a guys profile that I knew from as far back as elementary school. Legit nothing fishy, I just see things like they got married, had kids, posted pictures, whatever. It’s literally just mindless scrolling and me being nosey of others lives ( isn’t that the definition of Facebook?). He legitimately lost it on me, says I’ve done this before and he doesn’t trust me, he’s absolutely pissed, hasn’t spoken to me since he blew up on me. I apologized for the way I made him feel and tried to explain it was literally innocent, no intention to harm or hurt him. I never tried to talk to anyone, pursue anything..am I crazy that I think he’s insane and insecure and deflecting that on me? Like doesn’t everybody do mindless scrolling and come across things they’re curious about? I have no idea how to even talk to him because he doesn’t want to hear any of my excuses. Please help me! I’m so frustrated. I honestly believe I’m a great partner and put my 100% into my family but he makes me feel otherwise. Ugh

Standingchair1 · 28/08/2023 18:01

Have you also been ‘checking out’ just as many girls on Facebook?

Standingchair1 · 28/08/2023 18:05

Maybe she does kiss him back when it’s just the two of them together?

Mom2K · 28/08/2023 20:26

I'd have just told said friend that kissing my spouse as a greeting is unacceptable to me and that he's not to do it again. Why didn't you just address it?

He sounds like a perv. If your wife was turning her head, that's pretty clear that she did not welcome it. He's a creep for persisting in this way and I'd not be friends with someone like this.

Snippit · 28/08/2023 21:23

It’s not on kissing someone smack bang on the lips, that to me is too intimate.

Only my husband is allowed to do this as it’s a sensual display of affection. On the cheek Yes, a no no on the lips. I’ve had slobbery old men at New Years parties trying it on the lips, they soon got my cheek. An old neighbour recently tried it, again he got my cheek, what is wrong with these men. Keep off the lips, ok I have full natural lips and get compliments about them, but they’re for my hubby and only him.

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