Litigant in person - child arrangements order

[Newcastlecovleeds]

Hi all

Please comment on your experiences as a litigant in person for a child arrangements order.

Do you regret not having a legal representative?
Was it straightforward? What were the pros and cons for you?

For those who had legal representation, roughly how much did you end up paying? Did you feel it was money well spent? What would you say to someone whose about to go through the process?

Ive already spent thousands on legal fees for a NMO (received quite a solid undertaking order) and although the next step is child arrangements I’m trying to figure out what to do as I honestly don’t think I have another 15k legal fees to spend.

Thanks for your thoughts

I did it. The pro obviously was that it cost me nothing while he spent thousands on a solicitor. The case lasted 2 years, and overall I felt heard by the court and Cafcass. I was realistic about the outcome and was entirely child focused. I also felt I was able to voice my concerns without a filter and ensured that everything that needed to be addressed was brought up.

On the cons side, it was horrifically stressful and I felt very alone. His solicitor was a horrific gaslighter, although she was pulled up on one point by the judge. It was so unfair that so much went unchallenged, but I think I got a good result and was believed, overall. And I was horrified about how she made her case to be about my daughter's best interests when it was so clear to me that she was pushing an agenda that would have been so damaging to her. I don't know how these people can sleep at night.

Might be having to do it again soon 😞 so will have to think carefully if I can go through it all again or get a barrister.

I’m so happy to read that you were generally glad with the outcome. May I ask what the outcome was?

I think you’re so brave for taking it on and being able to feel heard. Can I PM you for some tips?

Im so sorry you’re having to possibly go through it again. But I get the impression you’re very child focused, to have had the outcome u did the first time. I wish u the best of luck

My threads do not add or take away from your life. You can ignore them.

I’ve come here looking for advice and lived experiences on different parts of the process so my threads address different things. I’m preparing myself. You have absolutely no idea what I’ve lived through and the detail of my circumstances so take your condescending unnecessary comment and GO AWAY!

You’re derailing my thread. STOP!

You don’t approve so why are you here? And why must I wait for something to happen before seeking advice?

I’m not replying to you again bc you’re obviously here to cause trouble. Report me to the mods if you have an issue with my posts.

Hey all just some context for anyone who sees this post and is inclined to agree with trouble maker up there.

Ive only just joined the site this week and it’s been a great resource.

First off I posted in the wrong group bc I didn’t know how to post. That was AIBU. A helpful person told me what to do.

I then posted questions on DIFFERENT parts of the process in parenting, relationships and legal. So I can get advice. So yea… 4 different questions dealing with different things.

Trouble maker seems to have an issue with the fact that nothing has happened yet. So what?? They have no idea what had happened already and why I feel it’s important to gather as much knowledge as possible.

Thanks to everyone who’s seen all my posts and not felt the need to be so rude and condescending.

I had a NMO and was high risk. I have had over 30 hearings over the years - some as LIP some with a barrister and some with a McKenzie Friend. All horrific. My STRONG advise to you is to avoid court at all costs - it is a traumatic place no matter your represention or not. If he files and you have to go then I think being a LIP is better as nobody understands your case like you do. My ex spent over 150k on legal represention. He got 50/50. Your ex will get contact, so the best thing to do is to manage how that looks as best you can. Perhaps think about shuttle mediation. Good luck.

Gosh! That does sound traumatic. It’s costly for sure and I think you have to weed out legal representatives who don’t ‘get it’ and just want a cheque from those that see and hear you. I’m lucky in that I’ve had really strong evidence, medical records etc so they’ve believed me even before we got into the court room and were then able to ‘fight’ for me. I really don’t want to spend all that money again tho. I can’t. There’s DV in the history and risk of abduction so we can’t keep it out of court and mediation wouldn’t work for this person. Thank you for sharing.

What I will say OP is please be prepared for him to gain contact if its pursued. Almost 99% of the time, abusive parents will be given contact so just prepare yourself mentally for that.. you won't be able to control it once it goes to court.

Thank you. Yes I’m prepared. I’ve always offered supervised and he’s refused and that’s why there’s question marks about why he’s delayed the application and his real intentions. Any one whose read the history would know unsupervised is highly unlikely at this point. Although I’m aware that could change.

If he gets supervised contact and it goes well, it'll progress to unsupervised. I think just prepare for that.
Court is a horrific place and if you can avoid it at all costs then do. There is a very draconian view of domestic abuse and all it takes is one hearing and the standard is set from there.
You may get an amenable judge if you're a LiP but it's just luck of the draw unfortunately. You may also get a professional who believes you and will turn your case around, but again luck of the draw.
If you get CAFCASS involved then all I can say is just be as child focused as possible, they'll be there to represent the child and not you or him.
All I will say is please don't go in with this blinkered view that because you're the victim it'll go your way.. the court would rather a child have contact with an abusive parent then severe that tie completely..

I understand and agree with your POV. Tbh the NMO case showed me anything could happen. Thanks for your pragmatic and helpful outlook

The PP is correct - it's best to brace yourself for contact. Family Court is pretty much contact at all costs. I had medical evidence, secured a conviction and 3 other women came forward with the same experiences. My risk level is and will remain 'imminent risk of serious injury and homicide'. He had been removed from the home when my child was 9 weeks old. He got 50/50 when she was 2. Good luck

I’m so curious to understand the thinking behind that. If the thing is what is in the best interest of the child, the person you described sounds very questionable. So I’m not saying he shouldn’t have got contact but 50:50 with the risks you’ve described is interesting.

The court take a view point that a child has a right to know both parents.. it is very much of the view that it is better to have an abusive parent in a child's life than not at all.. as both parents form that child's identity. That's why courts are also reluctant to change surnames as its the child's identity.
If you're going down the court route, you have to prepare for the worst. You have to prepare to be accused of being abusive yourself, you have to be prepared of being as culpable as him.. you also have to be prepared for a complete and utter character assinsation.
You have to be seen to be putting your child's best interests first.
My ex was the lowest of the low.. I was almost certain it was going to be an open and shut case because there was physical evidence of him harming our child and almost killing her... I had every professional going on my side including cafcass at the start...

All it took was ONE judge at the very first hearing to disregard everything and given him supervised contact from the off.. it was horrific.. his barristers were ecstatic with joy..

It's nearly 4 years on now and he's still having supervised... I have no idea what will happen but we're no further closer to a final hearing yet.

Again, the advice I reiterate is avoid Court at all costs because you won't be seen as the victim. Your NMO proceedings will also have absolutely nothing to do with children's matters.

Hope that's helpful in some way.

assassination*

Yes you’ve been great! I will prepare for the worst and thanks for the heads up regarding the irrelevance of the NMO. My child’s safety is paramount and I’m not particularly combative so I’m of the view that once the facts have been explored and considered in court and a decision is made, I’ll go with it. That’s on the Judge and all the professionals that will be involved. I will just continue being protective as I’ve always been.

Cheers for your time.

The problem with FC is that your outcome is entirely dependent on the judge on that day - it is the luck of the draw. Please avoid court at all costs.