My sister is driving us insane

[Fridayrant]

Going anon for this because I will probably get some backlash.
As the title says my older sister is driving everyone insane, and she doesn’t seem to realise or care.
She and her husband have a 5 year old who is so undisciplined that my husband and I decided to limit contact and visits to avoid frustration for both sides. I know that it’s not fair to compare children with one another, but their daughter is so far behind what our dc were at the time.

I know that they love her to bits but they keep treating her like a toddler and let her run the show. There is no fixed bed time or sleep training, she is being spoon fed because she wants to play with toys at the kitchen table. Basics such as toilet training and hand-washing does not exist and she is free to do whatever she pleases as no room or cupboard is off limits. On the rare occasion when she is told not to do something she ignores them and does it anyway, and they accept it and seem to find it amusing that she is such a strong little girl.
My sister tells me how exhausted she is because of the co-sleeping but she doesn’t want to work on any changes either.

The reason I got so frustrated now is because my sister is currently sulking because our parents have told her that they don’t really like having them over for visits so often because they find it quite exhausting. She now claims that our parents favour me over her which is totally untrue.

I realise this is a lot of drama but i don’t really want a family rift, but I’m also at my wit’s end trying to get through to her. Her husband is more laid back but he always supporting her in her view so talking to him won’t work either.

Any suggestions how to communicate a delicate topic with someone who does not accept any view that challenges their own? 🤦‍♀️

Thanks

I think maybe being upfront and saying the little girl runs riot and it's exhausting if she falls out with you all then what else can you do, this is how they have chosen to parent your Neice and its not fair on her because she's missing out on grandparents time, this is on your sister and husband.

My Aunts grandchildren were parented like that, it caused a rift in their family my cousins just avoided each other when their kids were younge because the wild ones ruled the roost.

Is the little girl at school? Wonder how she gets on there?

I think you're going to have to be blunt and just say that it's exhausting and while she can parent however she wants, you're not going to be the ones to suffer.

Sometimes people don't realise that good boundaries are one of the best things you can do in any relationship and that's the same with kids too. Kids with no boundaries grow up into adults with no boundaries and that's a pretty tough life. If your sister is open to the idea then maybe you can work with her on setting some simple gentle boundaries. Start with something small, E.g if she wants something she has to say 'please'. Stick to it and keep repeating till it sinks in and then move to the next new boundary.

It's not about 'discipline' but about preparing your kid for life in the real world!

This is lazy parenting. It’s unhelpful and, in fact, scary to your niece to have no boundaries. Does your sister understand that she and her partner are setting up their daughter for a terribly difficult time because family members don’t want her around and the same will happen at school and socially? They will regret this if they don’t get a grip on the situation.

Yes children with no boundaries turn into adults with little or no boundaries which is chaos !

Tell her no one likes spending time with her child and only her parents can fix this.
She needs to know now as socialisation is really important for young children, how old is she?

Poor kid.
How will she survive the work place?
They are not doing her any favours

I agree with pps, be blunt. Their lazy parenting is causing this and someone has to tell them that.

Be hinest with her. In the absence of a direct explanation she will fill in with fantasy resentment anyway and the relationship will be list. However: don’t explain for your parents because then she will rush to your parents and complain and you may lose your parents.

If you are close to your sister tell her you can’t speak for anyone else but you have noticed that her child seems to be having trouble meeting ordinary milestones for social development and emotional regulation . Don’t complain that this makes things unpleasant for you (though it does) just point out that its a problem for nirce goong forward. Maybe she snd her husband are too laxy and jnvested in ketting the child have her way. Sometimes parents act out through their child and enjoy the child’s freedom rather than recognizing how necessary boundaries are for the child’s iwn health and development.

its also possible that the child has some special needs or developmental deficit that they are unconsciously working around.

Sorry for all the typos!

I think I’d go softly too - assuming their dd is at school, I would echo the suggestion of saying you’ve noticed DN isn’t hitting milestones and have the school raised it? If she’s going into year 1 when she goes back next month, suggest your sister meets with the SENDCO to discuss DN.

if she can toilet and eat at school, and follow instructions at school, then she can do it at home. If she can’t do either, then they need support, not a telling off.

Speak to your sister. Definitely start softly and with love if you can. Broach the subject in the spirit you intend it; that is, in an effort to maintain the relationship and help her see what everyone else is experiencing.

She is 5 and a half and they say that she is doing ok in school, but that she is a bit behind in some areas but that’s it’s within the normal range. Maybe she is better in school but when I see her she is always in toddler mode with a dummy in her mouth.

Yes they are trying to keep every frustration away from her. When we are playing a game her parents hand her any cards they won and congratulate her on having done so well…so there is no point playing a game at all. Obviously there is no way I can explain this nonsense to my children who obviously don’t want to play then

Yeah I know I have to speak to her but I already know that she won’t like it and that she will see it as a personal attack.

I’ll try the soft approach to see if I can help her

I would focus on the areas that aren’t really personality but clearly development - the having to be fed, not being reliably able to toilet herself. Can she do these at school because if not, she does need support.

the poor behaviour, perhaps frame as “clearly struggles to follow instructions” - take the emotion and judgement out of it.

I do wonder whether she has some SEN and they are just not coping or admitting it to themselves?

This may help - my parenting was fairly like that anyway when DDs were small.

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/life-with-pda-menu/family-life-intro/helpful-approaches-children/

As for the problem that your children don’t like playing with her I wonder if making it an explicit choice and in family “thing” might help?

Like “we like to play cards the fridayrant family way. Its pretty competitive snd take no prisoners so littleniecefridayrant might not like it. Thats ok! Every family likes to play games their way sometime. If niece wants to play with us she can agree to play by our rules. If not we will play on our own/something different.”

Make explicit what is happening non judgmentally. They aren’t “playing cards wrong” ( though I agree this will have nasty consequences for her later) but she may feel challenged to ask for more grownup rules/treatment if it is offered as a treat.

Does she have any friends at school?

I am very sorry that you are in this situation and I completely understand because we have had similar issues with SIL. You can and should try to raise it gently, but I think it's likely this will cause issues.

Are you able to insert any boundaries when you are with the child? For example with nephew, he is allowed an awful lot of leeway but we have now started intervening. It irritates us, but it is also necessary. So, if he's being rough with the dog or with DD or whatever, we step in and say that's not okay. And if SIL has an issue with that, then we just calmly say that we need him to stop poking the dog/hitting DD etc (she thinks it's all just natural "rough and tumble").

There was also an incident a year or two ago where he hurt DD and we simply got up and left. SIL was really upset about it but I just said that DD needed to learn that when she was hurt, it's important that she doesn't think she has to accommodate the feelings of the person who hurt her. Interestingly, nephew has not been as rough with DD since.... he learnt that lesson too.

However, mostly, we have slightly withdrawn and spend less time with them or try to do it in situations we can manage. It's not ideal though. If your parents usually have a good relationship with her, I'd recommend that they sit down and talk to her properly about it.

Nope… Get tough. Tell them that their child is not a doll. She’s a five year old who desperately needs to be taught boundaries for her own physical safety, and emotional and intellectual development. Nobody thinks it’s cute when they sit on the sofa watching her adoringly while she trashes their house. People breathe a sigh of relief when they leave! Five year olds want to play with kids their own age, not someone with a dummy and a limited vocabulary. This kid needs to be read to STAT! They need to stop infantilizing the kid, bin the obsession with “cute” and let her grow up. To get there, they’re going to have to grow up as well!

i fear that any discussion will be seen as confrontational on her side tbh.
Yes she is doing well enough at school etc..l but 8 doubt they are so blindsided to not know she is ‘a terror’ and I’m sure other people will have commented too.

Another way would tp be to concentrate on doing things that are easier to deal with. (Only examples as you’ll know what is or isn’t working iyswim)
eg: always meeting up outside so you can concentrate on your dcs and not the dd
Playing some games and not others (I’ve always loved cooperative games with my two so they are playing together against the ‘vilain’ rather than against each other)
Grey rocking the weird behaviour like spoon feeding her (no idea how they manage to do that tbh!)

But you must see that she was trying to force confrontation with that uncomfortable conversation the other day. Instead of telling her the truth, you validated her shitty parenting by saying nothing.

Oh my god thatsounds awful.

Their poor DD. My DD isove advanced on some of the points you referenced and she isnt even 18m yet?!?

I know several boroughs do free parenting classes. perhaps you could research ones in your area and explain a friend found it helpful.

What you describe is pretty shocking stuff tbh...