So sick of the defensiveness

[Crimea]

Issues with H, he is always incredibly defensive when it comes to a problem that’s to do with him.

Classic example today - sorry it’s long - me, H, MIL and DS 2yo went on an outing concluding in the venue cafe. I sat at the table with DS, H and MIL went to order so I told H to call/message to let me know what was on the menu. Phone signal was out in cafe so MIL came out and showed me a picture of the menu, and she said ‘I’ll share a baked potato with DS’, to which I said ‘we normally get him his own meal’ - normally just the kids box with sandwich crisps fruit etc as there’s always something he’ll eat.

H comes out with his and MILs potatoes, beer for himself, and he had ordered the soup for himself as well, ‘luckily’ that was what I chose so I got that instead of him and he plonked himself down with his meal. Nothing for DS. I know already DS would want to try my soup as he likes soup, MIL has sliced him off a tiny wedge of dry potato which he’s not keen on surprise surprise, I’m sat there holding the dog on the lead and DS on lap trying to feed him my soup (28 weeks pregnant btw so sharing a small meal is not ideal!) H and MIL both oblivious enjoying their meals.

I said to H what about getting him a sandwich so he goes back in and comes out with an adult tuna mayo sweetcorn sandwich which DS tries and spits out (again no surprise to me but somehow his dad doesn’t realise kids sandwiches are a thing - table next to us has 2 kids with meal boxes).

at this point I was clearly unimpressed and we went home without talking - waiting for a chance without MIL there but she only left our house with H to go to the pub together at around 8.

H gets in around 10:30 and gets straight on the phone to a friend. I am annoyed and hurt he didn’t come to say hello to me but it’s par for the course as he will shut me out when he knows there’s a problem.

While he’s still on phone i ask who he’s talking to and tell him I had wanted to talk to him. He doesn’t wrap up te call but Finally when he’s off the phone with friend, I tell him how I felt disappointed earlier because I end up feeling like I’m the one who’s expected to be responsible when it comes to DS (and the dog too who H wanted to leave in the car for part of the day…I said no and so I missed out on part of the outing sitting outside with the dog who was not allowed into that bit).

he straight away puts his defenders up and says how it’s my fault because I should have said something to his mum (I did), he thought I had agreed about the potato with his mum, I’m telling him that’s proving my point about only me being responsible for DS and he should realise that that’s not enough food for him…

we go round in circles for ages, I start raising my voice as I get so frustrated that he always has a comeback, I cannot think of a single time in the last 6 years where he’s held his hands up and just said, my bad, I’m sorry.

the defensiveness is actually wearing me out. We can’t ever meet in the middle because he puts his barriers up at the first sign of there being a problem. We are always in a race to the bottom, I’m so sick of arguing with him. I just feel done now and that life would Be easier without him.

has anyone had any similar experiences? Thanks for reading

I think I’d be defensive too if someone was making a mountain out of a molehill and still sulking 8 hours later about a sandwich.

Yes, I’m 17 years and 3dc in. The older 2 dc are now starting to have the same issues with their dad as I’ve had all these years. I think they’re (very sadly) starting to feel for me, as they see he’s always blaming one of us rather than take any responsibility, or just be an adult and discuss the issue at hand. It’s not good.

I guess that’s fair, taken out of context it might seem like a molehill. I think it’s only fair we are equally responsible for making sure DS has something to eat. And I get frustrated that rather than just agree with the principle (which after 10 mins of
back and forth he says he does) he has to defend himself - even when I’ve presented the issue in a neutral, non-blaming way. It’s very tiring and happens a lot

@daisydalrymple I’m sorry to hear that it’s been going on so long. I would probably stick it out too if not for the fact that I end up losing my cool when it happens. I start a conversation very calmly and using ‘I’ statements etc, but I can’t stay calm in the face of his deflections. And I don’t want that to be life for me, him or for DS

You want to be equally responsible but are unhappy with your husband's decisions. I'm not saying you're in the wrong, I too would have bought a kids meal for my child at that age. He made a decision, it was just the wrong one.
A lot of how I brought up my eldest was based on what my mum taught me. Your husband's mum thought it was appropriate to share her jacket potato so he's gone along with that. We all either learn from others or learn from experience. He didn't learn from this experience because it was you who had to share your food. I would have said "he's not going to eat that" and gotten up and ordered him something myself or instead of saying "what about getting him a sandwich" and still giving him the option of getting it wrong, specify "kids meal" or "ham sandwich". It seems daft that you should have to teach him but you clearly know what your child eats better than he does. Let him get it wrong when he's out on his own and then he'll learn from his mistakes too.

Why didn't you just hand him your son & let him manage the situation instead of just hinting?

"DS is hungry. You sort it, thanks."

Just sounds like bad communication tbh. Why didn’t you tell your MIL what you wanted when she came out with the menu rather than ending up with the soup?

And when she suggested DS share the potato say clearly, no please get him a kids ham/cheese sandwich- she came out to ask your opinion and you didn’t clearly give it, then sat like a martyr holding the dog etc rather than asking for help.

Next time just speak up rather than stewing for hours over a relatively non event.

This.

"Can you take the dog and DS, I'll get him something to eat?". I think you need to ask for what you want in the moment, insist on it. Then his choice is do it or get annoyed in the moment. You seem to want him to be psychic and then understand why you're annoyed hours later. Have the conversation in front of MIL. He's using her as a human shield.

Just be assertive. You want everyone to understand and be kind and pick up what you're putting down. That's not working. So demand it.

Thanks for all the replies. I agree I could have handled the situation differently, been more assertive etc, and H isn’t a mind reader. And yes our communication is poor. The main issue is that when the time came to talk about what happened, he’s already closed off and put his defenses up to protect himself from any blame that could come his way. It’s been this way for as long as I can remember and just makes it impossible to improve things, as I get frustrated and lose my patience with his inability to listen and be open. It’s like being in a relationship with Bart Simpson or something, ‘I didn’t do it’ all the time

I don’t think in this situation it was necessary or proportionate to wait until a time to discuss it, it was a simple scenario that could’ve been very easily resolved at the time.

By stewing in things and not discussing there and then I can see why he’s becoming defensive, because you’re sitting there not communicating and waiting instead to complain later rather than just communicate simple messages at the time it’s more useful.

I think communication is a problem and you could be more assertive rather than martyr yourself but I do understand that there is a bigger point here. You are jointly parents of a two year old child and yet your husband doesn't know enough about your child's needs/preferences to make decisions about simple matters like food. He relied on his mother's opinion because she was there and leaves it up to you at other times which suggests he thinks child care is the responsibility of women. I'm afraid if you have allowed that situation to continue for two years and now have another on the way then I don't think it's going to change unless you start asserting yourself and handing over some of the responsibility.

Your post reads like he didn't actually buy you a meal but gave you soup he had ordered for himself and initially he didn't get anything for son, not even a drink, I'd be pissed off about that too, posters can't honestly think it's reasonable for a grown man to need so much direction. It may not be reasonable but apparently he does.

You sat there holding onto both your son and the dog without saying anything, why? You could have just handed him one or the other. You don't say whose idea it was to take the dog but it does sound as if this outing wasn't dog friendly if the whole family wanted to share the experience. I agree you cannot leave a dog in the car all day so may the dog should have been left at home. Attractions and events will usually say on their website if they are suitable for dogs or whether there are restrictions.

I think the defensiveness is probably part of his personality and it's possible that giving additional instructions would lead to the same behaviour. If you are worn out with it now then ask yourself how you might feel in another 10 or 15 years and whether that's something you can put up with.

@Crimea sounds like you're both in a bad loop where you expect DH to behave in the same way you would and then when he doesn't, you express frustration which makes him feel attacked. There doesn't seem to be any communication or a learning moment.

You should have handed DH the baby and the dog and got the food. Or, you don't share the soup. You make DH have baby on his lap and HE shares.

If you don't make him step up, how will DH ever learn how the properly parent? You just take over and get on with it. Then you get frustrated when DH can't match your energy and knowledge.

Start handing the baby off to him more. Let him make mistakes and learn how to be as good of a parent as you are.

Start going out more as well. Why does DH get to go off to the pub and leave you to be the parent after you've already done it all day? Go to a coffee shop or off to B&M and just wander around decompressing from the day.

Nothing will change until you start letting go more which forces DH to pick up that slack.

I think you should have been clearer and that your MIL is at fault for not relaying the message to your husband about the food. He did what he thought you wanted- twice- and hours later, you're having a go at him for not doing something you didn't bother to specify.
I get it's annoying when a DP is defensive, but in this particular instance, I don't think he's been unreasonable at all.

I had wanted to talk to him

If he had a domineering mum then these words will immediately make him defensive. Not saying it's right but perhaps the reason. You mention you didn't speak afterwards, who was not talking as holding a grudge isn't sensible.

Sorry to hear about your situation....it's very familiar to my recent history unfortunately. My now ex H treated me exactly the same way...it hurts because of a complete lack of thought, care or empathy for you and your needs. You're pregnant, managing your son and the dog, and he couldn't even be bothered to think about you and your son, much less put you both ahead of himself. Other commenters have said you need to be more demanding and speak up more - honestly in my experience this doesn't work either as men with this type of personality take everything as a personal criticism/attack and the defenses come straight up. They never ever apologise, never see the situation from your side and will always blame and deflect. In my experience, it will utterly wear you down over the years, it's soul destroying. The MIL won't help either - she's like his enabler. Sorry I don't have any better advice for you, just to say it's OK to want your partner to care for you and to be able to discuss issues like an adult.

Why didn’t you just leave the little one with MIL and got up to order a kid’s box. Problem solved.

adverse childhood experiences can make people sensitive to criticism. Do you have any other examples of DH’a defensiveness?

This

I'm think not addressing it at the time and leaving it until later might have generated a sense of foreboding and more angst on both sides than necessary. Say what you want and need at the time. That said, DH sounds thoughtless and selfish and so does his mother, so he's modelling her behaviour and needs to belt up.

Did he not order you any food? He went and ordered 2 meals for himself, one for his mum and nothing for you or ds? You were just left to eat the dregs? Especially when pregnant too.
It does seem a little mountain/molehill and as a one off then ywbu, however its these little incidents that gradually chip away at us over time.

I can't argue with "d"h, I can't ever bring up any frustrations like that either, because he's the same - very defensive, and every single time he turns it round on to me, and makes himself to be the victim. I just want him to own up to his mistakes - "yeah, I screwed up, I'm sorry" but he won't/can't do it.

I had the same with my ex and as another poster has said it wears you down utterly in the end.

My only solution is to be way more proactive in any situation. You basically assume he will think like an alien and will find some way to cockup unintentionally.

So at the beginning even before you leave the house you know what’s going to happen. I understand the part about your dog and not leaving it in the car, but ending up looking after it outside. If you were in that situation again you would probably ask someone to hold the dog, while you went inside. It’s difficult and wearing to always anticipating something not going right, and isn’t how a marriage should be.

My ex who thinks he was a great, great father was the one who would feed our Dd a blueberry muffin for lunch or buy her an ice cream just before her dinner (she was a very small eater).

My ex has two brothers and at every family get together, they always manage to sit together leaving the DILs to sit with all the children and the difficult in-laws. Every time we got together, I would forget that this happened.

It may be due to brain wiring or just selfishness, I don’t know. Because they won’t look at their own behaviour, you as the wife just be become fun police and get cross over nothing.