NC with mum and don’t know which decision to make

[Thechocolateshop]

I’ve name changed just in case. I’m NC with my mum and I do have siblings. We have different fathers but grew up together in the same house. We don’t have contact with our fathers either but my siblings still live with our mum, they are in their 20s. I’m 30 now and I am suffering not knowing what decision to make. They just don’t see her behaviour as bad as I do, in a way they don’t know any better.

I was forced to leave home young and have never been able to repair a relationship with our mum. I have a relationship with my siblings but obviously it must be awkward for them. I don’t say anything negative to them about my situation with her. She’s hurt me in so many ways, she’s hurt other’s feelings too in the family but they always forgive her behaviour. I think they judge me because I had to stop all contact so that I could decide what was best for me. I don’t want a relationship with her and have barely had one really.

Part of me feels guilty that she will die in the next 5-10 years potentially. I keep thinking about how much she must have sacrificed when I was small for me. Although she is very difficult to get on with sometimes due to her personality and drinking problem. I also keep thinking that none of us are perfect and we all make mistakes. The next part of me just can’t stand to be around her because of the way she is. My siblings are used to her and probably share a lot of the same views on life.

My wider family only see her once every few months or some once a year. It’s easier for them to ignore her issues. I don’t think I can have any kind of relationship with her but I might be willing to set some boundaries and keep her at arms length, but remain civil for the sake of the family. I want to learn to forgive and part of me can, I can’t forget all of the bad stuff and it pops up in my hear everything that happened in the past and then I resent her all over again. Does anyone understand how this feels? I can’t bring this up to my family for support as I don’t want to put them in the middle.

Gosh yes.

My sibling and I have been NC with my mum for around 12 years. The rest of her extended family are VLC with her but, as with your family, they have no impetus to cut her off completely because they only see her once a year, if that, as it is. We have no contact with them at all. I've essentially lost my whole family except for my sibling.

People will, in the end, do what is best or at least easiest for them when they aren't pushed to make a decision.

Only you can decide if NC is right for you. Many people maintain a civil VLC for the sale of other family relationships.

I forgave her for the childhood abuse. But I will never forget. I will never forgive her for the position she put my children in because that was a self serving and deliberate choice. And I'll forget neither.

Ultimately, you need to make the decision that is right for you. you dont need anyone else's approval.

@GreyCarpet thank you for sharing your experiences. One thing I will say is, no matter who I let in to knowing about my situation, work colleagues, in-laws, family… they do not understand. I’ve had all of the comments such as, she’s your mum, a work colleague told me it doesn’t matter what your mother does to you, she gave you life so you should forgive her etc.

I switch between thinking that these people are either close to their mum, or they have ignored their own abuse, or are brainwashed into thinking that it doesn’t matter, or they just have good stable parents. I remember years ago when I was growing up, I didn’t know any different, so although I knew my parents drank too much and argued too much, part of me was so used to it, it was normal to me. It was only once I moved out and saw other families that I realised my own wasn’t normal.

I see my aunt/uncles relationships with their kids, and they are all extremely close. I’m literally the odd one out, the black sheep. The black sheep usually isn’t odd but they usually break away or are different in some way. They get that name because they dared to question the way the family is… the rest of them go along with it just to fit in. The one who speaks out will often be isolated and alone in their decision, as the others don’t want the problem person to turn on them.

I am struggling to forget everything that’s happened. I can’t move on or be civil at the moment as she has never really taken responsibility for the things she’s done and the way she still is, I just hate being around her, I really don’t think she’s a nice person at all. She’s very bitter, she’s very negative and will bring a black cloud over your day if you are around her. I remember her bad moods were scary growing up. I try my hardest not to be like her every single day.

Part of me feels that she is my mother, life is so short, for all these silly feelings from the past. Am I just as stubborn as her? I wasn’t always like this. I don’t know what decision to make and it’s ruining my life. I feel like if I let her back in to my life, it means I’ve forgiven and forgotten. But I never will, so how should I navigate that?

@Thechocolateshop if she wasn’t your mother. But a cousin, an old friend, your neighbour, a partner with these traits - would you ignore the traits and keep them in your life or do what’s best for you and remove yourself from the situation?

Family can be one of the most toxic relationships in my opinion as we accept so much more abuse from them just because they are blood relations. Why? I’d rather form relationships with people that share my values and add to my life.

Do not rush yo make a decision OP, you sound very torn. Have you had any counselling or therapy in the past? If not l would consider it now to help you navigate this decision. You owe your abusive mother nothing, you need to do what's right for you in this situation.

I could’ve written the exact same thing. About my mother, our relationship, how I feel. It‘s uncanny, really

especially “trying my hardest not to be like her every single day”

Would it help if you met her in a cafe for one hour, so she has to behave in public, and you know when it’s going to end ?

@Thechocolateshop I also wonder ''am I as stubborn as her'' as initially, I wanted to talk to her, to give her a bit of feedback that she should stop labelling me (paranoid, sensitive) but instead of listening she cast herself as the martyr, the victim of me
I've always backed down before, my whole life, but I was driven by such an urge to be heard, finally. But three years on, she still hasn't heard me, she has just smeared me to more and more people and become more and more entrenched in her victim narrative.

eg, it can't be that my expectation that my mother agree to talk was reasonable, no no, her daughter was confrontational trying to have a conversation. It's not that she was extremely defensive and shut down instantly, no no, it's that her daughter was aggressive. It's not that she has zero conflict resolution skills, no no, it's that her awful daughter is angry. It's not that there is another perspective, no no no, it's that her daughter is detached from reality.

Its not that the family dynamics are dysfunctional, no no no it's that her daughter has destroyed the family. And finally, the absolute kicker for me and the moment I gave up for good realising that she is unreachable, it's not that she gave me the silent treatment and stonewalled me for three years +, it's just my perception that she stonewalled me

I realise now it can't be fixed because there was nothing real to fix. But yet, I still sometimes wonder ''am I equally as stubborn?''. Like the op @Thechocolateshop I really do not want to be like her.

People are programmed by nature to love their parents.

When that love becomes complicated or difficult or leaves a daughter with the feeling that they need to back away even though they'd rather have a loving relationship - it's because of the way their mother has behaved. People will forget the details of what you did, but they will never forget the way you made/make them feel.

It's clear that really you miss having a loving mother. If you want a very distant or no relationship with your mother, there's a reason. It's clear she is not loving and caring.

I’ve had all of the comments such as, she’s your mum, a work colleague told me it doesn’t matter what your mother does to you, she gave you life so you should forgive her etc

Ah yes, that. Your colleague is pretty clueless isn't she? I'm afraid that giving a child life does not give the mother the right to suck them dry, not in any sane or balanced society. The best bet is to either say nothing, or say 'it's complicated and private'. It's a good idea to choose who you talk to carefully; many people will not get it. A few will, which is quite a relief.

There's also a phrase "detach with love". You can still love your mum, but keep a degree of distance with dignity. It does mean approaching the whole mum thing with a touch of detachment, which means facing your own feelings of wanting to belong, wanting to be loved and supported and coming to terms with the fact that it's impossible. it's a hard road.

I hope you find your way. Mother/child relationships are one of the deepest we have, maybe the deepest, and very challenging.

As I say, a few people will get you. Keep talking with them

@DancesWithDucks thank you for your kind words and advice. It was so nice to hear, just that someone else understands.

You won’t be like your mother because you have two qualities she lacks: empathy and insight.

Do stop going down the rabbit hole of she potentially dying in the next 5-10 years. That’s a route that goes nowhere. I would suggest you read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and look at and or post on the current Well we took you to Stately Homes thread on these Relationships pages.

You will also need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

@xPeaceXx It is very true, a lot of parents don’t have the capacity to take responsibility for their actions. My own mother is a very stubborn person and has played the victim very well. I’m so disappointed in my family for not checking on me or showing me any real support over these years. Knowing how isolated I must have felt, makes me not even want to bother with most of them. I think if the person isn’t aggressive then a face to face conversation could help. It depends if the parent can truly listen and try to understand how the child feels. I know my mum isn’t capable of this and even if she was it’s years too late now. I wish you all the best.

I could have written a lot of what you have written OP. I have a VLC relationship with my mum which in some ways has helped my sanity but I do feel a lot of guilt. For years I minimised what she had done when I was a child, how she had behaved, things she has said. I happened to mention some of it to a colleague a few years ago and she just said “that must have been really painful”. It was the first time I had allowed myself to acknowledge that it had been painful, and an ongoing relationship with her was also painful because of how she continues to act.

I have spent years of my adult life in therapy trying to deal with what she did. She is a millionaire, she can easily afford therapy - very good therapy. But she doesn’t do that, she has no desire to change and I have given up the hope that she ever will. She has never apologised to me, she never will. She even talked to my kids the other day about how she hit me as a child and left slap marks. She told them she felt ashamed, but did not apologise to me. She is toxic and I don’t want to be around her.

Do what is right for you. Nobody else fully understands what you have gone through, so their opinions are somewhat redundant.

I’m sorry she hasn’t been the parent you deserved and needed. That’s hard.

I have had counselling once and had around 3 sessions. My therapist was understanding of my situation but her answer to my problem was to not allow it to get to me. She used to say that I need to move on from the past. The thing is, I was going to counselling to try and understand how my past is impacting my current life. I feel traumatised by the life I’ve had and I feel affected by my path in life from childhood onwards. By her telling me to move on all the time I just cancelled my next session as she wasn’t the right therapist for me. I want to look into private therapy but it’s so expensive to try it out only to find that the therapist isn’t the right match for me. The private ones I’ve contacted wanted around 6 payments upfront too.

@DancesWithDucks Thank you so much for your post. OP, you are not alone in your feelings. I tend to avoid conversations about my family of origin because of the lack of understanding. But most of the time I know I am doing the right thing.

The people I admire most in my life, the bravest, the kindest people are those who break the cycle of abuse. That's you, OP. And they often have strained relationships with their wider families who aren't in a place where they can do that, or admit the reality of the situation.

You can forgive her in your own time, for your own peace. You can understand what made her the way she is, and acknowledge that nothing is ever black and white, that she may have done her best, that no-one is ever perfect. You can do all that without seeing her.

You have been able to see the reality of what she is. Is there a stress-free, non-guilt related reason to see her? I'm guessing not. If you wouldn't let her near your kids, don't let her near you.

I have a person in my life that I loved very deeply who is now ill, and as you say, will probably die in the near future. I don't go near them, don't see them, because it is bad for me. It may well be that you are inspiring some of the family members who are keeping her at arms length. It's not wrong/bad to protect yourself. Not having her in your life at all, making that kind of decision, will help you be not like her more than anything else.

My therapist was understanding of my situation but her answer to my problem was to not allow it to get to me. She used to say that I need to move on from the past.

Our mothers and fathers go to the fundamental roots of who we are. The relationship with them is intensely powerful and most people can't just 'move on from the past' when your parents have hurt you badly without facing it, which is an intensely painful process. (Some people after consideration choose not to look in the past and put on one side. It can be the right decision for them, but it doesn't mean it won't still affect them, and it really isn't something most people can do, imo).

Plus you can't completely get away from her because you do have, and want, a relationship with your siblings. So you're going to end up with your mum being mentioned etc which is going to have an influence on you day to day.

Your therapist was crap.

I think this is just how it is when we're dealt parents like yours and mine and we make that brave decision to step away. The best we can hope for is wobbly peace. My estranged parents have both died but I still mull over it a lot and I think I always will. It gets easier. I always come back to acknowledging that it would have been better had I backed off as soon as I left home but this was difficult because as is the way with these parents they don't care about you but they are very needy. I wish I could have had the sort of relationship where it was just surface, like an uncles wife or something. But because I had been parentified they wouldn't let it be like that, I was either putting them first or a dreadful daughter. And I think the only reason I wished we could have had a sham relationship is so it didn't look so unnatural to the outside world although a fake relationship is every bit a sham. Aye, there's no easy answers just that wobbly hard earned peace.

It seems a lot of society is so hell bent on this idea of all parents being a sum positive for their children when this is clearly and demonstrably not the reality and that pressure is so baked in that finding yourself on the 'outside of the dolls house' is bloody hard.

Thank you I appreciate all of the comments it’s so helpful to hear other peoples story and to know I’m not alone in my experience.

Yes, I think that people whose parents raised them with real curiosity about who their children were going to become and supporting them to be themselves, those lucky people obviously shrug over these issues because their parents love is not conditional.

They were literally raised to know that they do not need to be x y or z to be accepted, and with that armour that we don't have, they suggest forgetting about it or letting it go.

They cannot understand why some parental contact isn't always better than no parental contact.

@xPeaceXx exactly they’ve never been through this so they can’t understand. Luckily for them. Almost feels like everyone gaslights me into feeling like I’m the one who's wrong. Even people I barely know. It’s simple things like people at work who ask what my plans are for Christmas or mothers day, I’m just going to give a really vague answer or just lie from now on. It’s a touchy subject and can be difficult to manage when people ask about family life.

How do you cope with your family, are you close with your wider family or any siblings? I think my family feel awkward about it all. Obviously it makes me sad to think they might be put in the middle but then the other part of me wishes someone would stand up for me just once. It’s so isolating and don’t really have anyone to talk to in life, so mumsnet has really been helpful.