Marriage issues leading to friend issues

[gummychops]

Hoping for some advice on how to handle a tricky situation without causing a fall-out with any of my friends. This is long, sorry.

I am in an unhappy marriage, just coming up to our tenth anniversary. It's complicated, but there have been lots of ups & downs over the last 3 or 4 years. Definitely more downs, especially in the past year. My husband could probably be described as abusive, & he has been very nasty & verbally aggressive on numerous occasions.
Where it's all leading is hard to figure out. I should leave, I know. But I can't "leave" as we have 3 young kids & I have nowhere to go. I have no family nearby & they wouldn't have space for us anyway. My kids are in school & creche so I obviously can't just take them out & head for the hills with no plan.
I don't love him anymore. I'm pretty sure of that. But he refuses to go to counselling & refuses to leave himself. I have been pushed to the limit a few times, & told him I want to separate, & tried to start mediation to bring this about. But he had always refused to engage with that process.
About 9 months ago, after a really bad incident of him shouting at me in public in front of the kids, I engaged a solicitor. She told me, as I already knew, that mediation was the first step. At that point he finally agreed to engage with mediation in order to separate. Finally I thought he was going to cooperate. It took a few months for a mediation appointment to be offered, & he kept finding excuses for why the date didn't suit him. Eventually he accepted an appointment. Then didn't turn up. And refused to re-book.
So basically he had strung me along for about 4 months, with me thinking we were on the way to separation.
Since then - it's been up & down. More nastiness off & on. But sometimes in between this he's been making lots of effort, doing loads around the house, booking things for us etc.
The solicitor has a letter ready to send to him, saying I want to separate. I just need to ask her to send it. It's hard to explain, but it feels like I need to wait for him to do something really nasty again before I can send the letter. If we've been getting on "okay" & there's been no recent horrible argument where he has been completely out of order, I feel like he will paint me as the bad guy for breaking up the family.
If the letter landed on a day just after he had shouted & screamed abuse at me, it couldn't be argued with. But if it arrives during a period of relative calm he's just going to make out like I'm reopening old arguments. He already paints me as being the one causing all the problems.
But back to my friends. I have told a few of them over the years about our problems. Initially they are very supportive, advising me that his behaviour is unacceptable etc etc. I agree with all of this & never make excuses for him. But when it comes to what I should do, they don't seem to understand how difficult it is to end a marriage if the other party doesn't want it to end. If we didn't have kids, I would have left years ago. No question about it. I would move to Mars to get away from him & start again, if it was just me. But I can't just gather up my 3 kids under my arm & head out the door with nowhere to go. And he resolutely refuses to go. But my friends don't seem to see that I am trapped. He led me on during those months when I thought we were headed towards mediation. Then pulled the rug out from under me again by refusing to attend.
I can't think straight when he's so up & down in his behaviour towards me. I don't know what to do. I could really go with some support & advice. Meanwhile, my friends don't really keep in touch or ask how things are. I feel like they are viewing me as a willing victim, who just likes to moan about my husband. But it can't be that bad, I must be exaggerating, otherwise why haven't I left...

Sorry this is so long. I'm only posting now as I'm due to see these friends this weekend for the first time in a year. I just don't know what to say if they about him/us. It's been so long since they last asked that I feel like they're too out of the loop. Especially my "best" friend. Last time we spoke was when I was waiting for the mediation appointment, which never happened. She hasn't mentioned it since. There's just way too much for me catch her up on.... I just really can't be bothered going into it with her/them when they haven't given me the support I so desperately needed. But I don't want to fall out with my friends either. Any advice?

I'm sorry you're in such an awful situation.

Doesn't him trying to make you out to be the problem count as terrible behaviour to you? I don't think you need to wait for an aggressive incident to send that letter. You're living with abuse every day.

As for your friends; I don't think I'd see you as a willing victim but I also don't know what more support I could offer, to be honest, if I were them. Your friends know the situation well and are giving their advice, backing uo your thoughts & experiences. Anything else is just repeating themselves and must seem futile. Maybe you could tell them what else they could do to support you?

Sending very best wishes for change in your life and a more peaceful, happy future.

Thanks for your response. I know that, as regards my husband & what happens there, you are completely right. I suppose I've just become so used to the way things are between us, that my "normal" is way below the standards of what most relationships could tolerate.
As regards my friends.. they just seem to have abandoned me. My former best friend (for the last 20 years) in particular. We last spoke by phone in Jan/Feb (she lives 2 hours away), when I told her about the really bad public incident which had led me to seeing a solicitor in order to initiate separation. I said we were waiting for a mediation appointment. She literally hasn't mentioned it since. We haven't spoken to or seen each other, with just text communication about other things, kids etc. No mention or enquiry from her about the massive upheaval & potential end of my marriage. It really feels like she's sick of the drama & doesn't want to know. Which is hurtful & disappointing. It also makes it hard to believe that I'll have any support if I do manage to break free from my marriage. The previous assurances from friends that I'll be ok on my own don't ring true. I don't feel I CAN do it all on my own, with 3 young kids & a job, without lots of moral support & friendship & caring.

You’re ready. Go! Be free. Are you feeling guilty and that’s why you want it to be in response for something? You have no reading to feel guilty. Please be kind to yourself. Do what’s right for you and your kids

You only need to give your own self permission to leave.

Do talk to Womens Aid as they can and will help you here.

You were and are not emotionally safe enough to do any form of mediation with him. He did you an favour here by refusing this. Abusive men are not suitable candidates for mediation and your Solicitor should know this.

It is precisely because of the children too that you should leave this loveless abusive marriage. Staying for the sake of the kids never works out well and is a terrible idea in your particular circumstances. What do you want to teach them about relationships ?They need to learn that the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none.

Abusive men too often refuse to leave, that’s not up to him though. You will certainly need to use legal means going forward.

He is also not going to make the whole process of separating and divorce at all easy for you. He will be obstructing and difficult for as long as he can as a further attempt to control and otherwise punish you for leaving him. He will remain the same post divorce too.

Abuse like described can take a long time, years even, to recover from. Have a look at the Freedom Programme online and do this in person if you can too.

Thanks for your replies & advice. I feel that part of me knows that you are right, & that his overall behaviour over the past few years is completely unacceptable & intolerable, & I have every right to send that letter at any point. I don't need a new specific incident to happen to justify pulling the trigger on a separation.
But part of me still has doubts. Maybe I really am the problem, like he constantly says.... It's very hard to get things straight in my head. There's so much going on in my little brain & it's very hard to work out what to for the best.

Anyway, looks like I'll be figuring it out by myself. The night away with friends was great fun, but there was minimal conversations or advice about me/my marriage. Lots of kids chats - lovely. Brilliant to catch up on how everyone's extended family is, ill health in older parents etc.
I thought it was very obvious how absent my husband's name was from all my conversations, in comparison to how often everyone else mentioned their partner. Nobody probed, until late this morning near the end of our time away together. My "best" friend asked, "so what's the story with you & husband?" I said something like - "well, how long have you got? There's a lot to catch up on since we last spoke" But not in a sarcastic or critical way. I then said something kind of vague, cos to be honest it feels like too little too late.
I suppose I was hoping she/they would have focused on me for a short part of our time together & ensured they made time for a proper conversation about my situation. "Hey, we haven't spoken properly in ages but I/we've been worried about you. How are things? Tell me what's been happening - has anything improved with you & DH?"

I thought they didn't push for mediation in abusive cases ??

By the way, we were all staying in one friend's house together, & didn't leave apart from a short walk. So it was only ourselves together for almost 24 hours

Honestly I think you are BU and too needy. I’m sure they do care but how much more can they do if you won’t actually take the practical steps to leave? Your expectations sound rather entitled to me I’m afraid, with your talk of focusing on you and wanting them to basically take the reins for you and give you permission to leave. No one is responsible for your life but you. And it will be better for the kids to be out of this toxic environment - I’m the kid of parents who stayed in a very toxic marriage and I really don’t thank them for it.

If you are in an abusive relationship - most people don’t truly understand it… but equally it hard to see a friend in that situation continuing on the same path .
look up the freedom program I think you will surprised how much daily abuse you receive .
look to women’s aid for advice . You don’t have to have the final straw to leave . You can leave because you have had enough .

I say all this as someone who lived in an abusive relationship.

To be blunt OP, your friends are probably fed up of hearing about your very abusive marriage, have probably gave sound advice and lots of support in the past and you just keep going round in circles but doing nothing about it.
They will care for you and will probably support you if you find the courage to leave him but it gets very tedious hearing about all the negative stuff when you don’t do anything to help your situation. I’ve been there and it’s very frustrating for the friends. They don’t want to ask you how things are as they know it will just be more of the same stuff with you putting up with it time after time.
Please listen to the very sound advice from previous posters.
You need to take action and get away from him.

OP when I was separating from my first husband my friends would listen if I needed to talk but none of them would have asked, it's quite invasive to ask someone about their relationship.

With regards to the actual separation, I left the family home and rented somewhere with the kids. Sols didn't have to force a sale as he bought me out eventually but he categorically would not have left, so I had to do the leaving. I wouldn't have been able to buy him out either, nor would I have wanted to. I know that's not the way people say it should be done but it was the only way I could have got away.

I get what you're all saying, honestly I do. I'm sure it's boring as hell to listen to someone bleating on about their crappy relationship. Sorry, TedMullins I can't quote correctly, "your talk of focusing on you and wanting them to basically take the reins for you and give you permission to leave."
That's not I said or meant at all. I would have appreciated a small amount of time, even 15 mins, to chat with my friends about what's been going on & get some advice about the current stage of my attempt to separate. I'm not asking anyone to take the reins for me - I'm trying to work out myself when is the best time to send the letter. I still have to live with him & co-parent 3 kids after the letter arrives, so it's important that I don't cause a complete meltdown by sending it at the "wrong" time. He has said so many times that he will never leave his children. I feel that I need to pounce with the letter after a really bad incident eg him shouting at me in front of them. Then I will be able to back up my reasons for needing the marriage to end for their sake, & he can't credibly argue with me. I
wasn't going to go into all that detail about the letter with my friends. I just hoped they would bring up the topic of my shit situation at all.
Posters are implying my friends are sick of giving me advice & me ignoring it & not leaving. That's my whole point - I am trying to take steps, have seen my solicitor twice, drafted a letter to be sent to him & tried to organise mediation. He's just not playing ball & is using stalling tactics. I can't click my fingers & magically make him disappear, any more than I can "just leave"

Thanks pamplemousse. That may be my only option. Only problem is, the house is actually in my name. I know overall that is a good thing, but it means I'm reluctant to just walk out on it. I bought a house just before we got together. He has never owned. But it's technically a family home so I can't just do what I like with it. Not without his consent.

You don't need his permission to end your relationship.

But you can.

You don’t need him to be awful again to send the letter. That’s a choice you are making. He will make it difficult for you regardless of when he gets it.

Yes it hard to leave. I ended up have to leave in the night with the kids and lived on a friends sofa for months.

mediation is not good abusive situations. And not recommended. I am not sure where you live that mediation is the first step to divorce though.

I am not sure what you want from your friends though. If they ask for an update. What will it be ‘mediation didn’t go ahead and I ah ent made a move since’

Friends aren’t trained DV counsellors. They have said all they can say. A conversation would actually be you talking and then just sat there.

Leaving is hard and it is scary. But not everyone is capable of listening to someone who is to scared to make a move for months or years. I am sure if you actually did do something, they would be very supportive.

You are clearly in an extremely difficult position. It's all very well for MN well-wishers to say 'Go! Be free!' But go where? With what money? What about the appalling stresses of being broke with three children so no realistic prospect of a full time job as childcare is so unaffordable in UK. An ex who will probably wind you up with promises that get broken, and you dealing with the emotional fall out of the children being unsettled post-break-up.

I would stop focusing on your friends. That's a distraction. I'd get quite calm and cool and treat your DH in a very polite and functional way. Keep life on the most functional, calm basis possible. Try to earn as much money as you can so you have a deposit for somewhere to live if you can't stay in the family home. Evaluate your skills and see what you could do, working from home, or only school hours, which could provide for your family.

I think you need to really concentrate on the practicalities for now, if you want to make a go of raising your children alone. The degree to which your current friends are involved is not a top priority.

I think you're being very unfair on your friends. You don't seem to understand how hard it is to watch someone you care about be in an abusive relationship and listen to them saying how awful it is but they still don't leave. You provide support and advice and it goes on and on and there's always a new reason excuse why they stay. Such as waiting for the best time to send the letter. The best time was actually the day the letter was drafted but that is already past.

not sure what you expect from your friends. you know its a bad marriage and needs to end, and I imagine they are sick of hearing it, giving you advice and support, then going against it. its exhausting as a friend.

I know you say you only want 15 minutes but I've got a friend who has been in a difficult situation for many years and every time we end up talking about it because how do you change the subject after they start? It's a conversation killer.

I'm sorry to be harsh but that might be the issue.

I suspect they’re biting their tongues because they don’t be,I’d be you’ll leave him and they’ll look bad / feel awkward if he’s still around after they’ve said how awful he is or tried to push you to leave.

I think if you called your best friend and said “I’m ready to do it, I’m sending the solicitors letter, can you support me?” Then probably she would.

OP, this all sounds horribly difficult but you need to recognise your agency over the things you do have control over. You need to act.

The letter is written. As PP says, even if you can't send it now you can save money and get everything ready for when you are logistically, financially, ready to leave (whenever that may be), not for whenever your husband crosses whatever line you have in your mind.

Your friends are there. You're right - they may be fed up of supporting you and offering advice and it not going anyway. So raise the matter yourself! Don't just sit there sadly waiting to be asked how things are going - open that conversation yourself, say how you've been feeling; tell them how much you'd be grateful for emotional support for the coming changes; ask them if they think they could support you! Be clear about what you'd like, be ready for them to maybe say they can't give you that, and then figure out what to do with that - but don't sit in a soup of waiting until external forces act on you.

Thanks everyone

You're misjudging your friends, and weirdly seem to be testing them as well. Don't do that.

They've said all they can say while you don't change things.

Thanks for all the advice. I know the main issue is with me, just needing to put on my big girl pants & take the next step towards separation. I have taken on board the various posters who tell me I need to take charge of the situation - I know you are right & I'm getting there...
The focus of this thread was my friends, as I have been apprehensive for weeks about our planned meet-up this past weekend. It boils down to feeling very alone, with nobody to share all the various ups & downs of the past few months with. It's been a rollercoaster of two steps forward, three steps back. And him shifting the goalposts a few months ago, when I thought I was making progress in the direction of separation. Back to square one of him refusing to discuss it. This is hard to deal with alone. It's also difficult to feel confident that I can manage on my own with 3 young kids & no family around, while also working. My oldest is only seven. Despite friends in the past encouraging me that I can do it, I won't be on my own, they'll be there to support me etc etc. The evidence of their lack of contact or interest over the past few months doesn't bear that out.
Anyhoo, time to focus on the big picture & get that letter sent & face the consequences.