Is this normal, abusive or just unreasonable?

[Claritalarita]

I feel I’ve lost my grasp on reality and what is normal. Have had an intense year with very complicated extended family dynamics and lots going on. Just come away on holiday and we’re all finding DP hard work. As an example yesterday all was perfectly fine until we stopped in a Starbucks with limited seating, DP stood at a table and DS went to sit down somewhere else, there was a seat free next to him by the time my drink arrived so I joined him. He’s messaging his gf the entire time. DD comes to join me as another space comes free. This leads to DP leaving the coffee shop looking really cross and saying, might see you guys later I’m going to the park. Kids are mystified and turn to me to ask why he’s so angry. I have no clue. Fast forward to this morning, we’re jet lagged so he and I have been awake for a bit, teenagers haven’t and argue about who’s going in the shower first and who gets to stay in bed longer. He wants to get out and about. After literally no more than 20 mins after DD wakes up he storms out saying he’s not come on holiday to sit in a hotel room, he’s going for breakfast and then going out, he’ll see us tonight. This triggers DD to jump in the shower. This I hate most because I know she feels she has to “fix it” as DS will be slow and she knows I will have to wait for him. I have already spoken to her and told her this is not her responsibility and it is about him not her. He has come back now after 40 mins of messaging saying he’s now had breakfast and will go out, turns out he didn’t. I did ask him what’s going on and got a mouthful about how everything he does is wrong, no one wants to he with him or interact with him, he’s just there to pay etc. It’s like living with a bear with a sore head all the time. I never know what will set him off and what will cause what I can only describe as a tantrum. And I’m feeling like I’m losing grip on what’s normal.

I would say that his emotions are controlling your family’s behaviour and it seems that is the intention too. He wants his own way doesn’t he and he gets mad if he doesn’t get it and dd scrabbles around trying to soothe him/do what he wants. Sounds abusive to me.
nothing wrong with him popping out for coffee/breakfast whilst others get ready, why the tantrum? Horrible selfish man.

Whilst I don't condone him being bad tempered I can see his frustration at you all mooching around and being glued to phones etc.

If he works and this is his holiday I can see why he wants to be up and out early. I'm like that.

i think maybe sit down with him and ask him what he needs. If you all have different styles of holiday then that could be difficult.

My ex was like this. Up at 6 down for breakfast then in the bar by 11am. I just did my own thing till we got divorced. We would meet for dinner and that's it. No tantrums though.

Grumpiness between teenage siblings is normal. Teens wanting to lie in on holiday also normal.
Anyone dealing with jet lag at any age and being grumpy - also normal.
Anyone who normally works hard and wants to make the most of a holiday away - also very normal.
A family dealing with having "Have had an intense year with very complicated extended family dynamics and lots going on is also likely to be feeling the strain in some way. So also - normal.

sounds like you maybe all need to chill a bit - let the husband go off on his own if thats what he wants - but have a discussion about what you all want and expectations so everyone knows where they are.

He’s very controlling.

My dh can be like this sometimes. Though our kids are younger. He will have silly tantrums and strops over nothing.
He also has what I call a ‘man period’ when he’s just in a foul mood for no apparent reason. I’m not sure if it’s abusive but it’s annoying.
I tend to just ignore him until he’s calmed down

His patience and emotional regulation is bad— it might not be abusive but it is creating a bad atmosphere and skewed family dynamic with your daughter. You need to have an honest conversation when you're both calm and find out a way forward.

So in the Starbucks example, he saved you all a table then you all went and sat somewhere else without him, have I read that right?
If I have, I'm not surprised that he was upset.

The other example, he certainly has different holiday expectations to the rest of you and isn't very good at expressing them and reaching a compromise. I'd need a bit more info before deciding that he was "abusive" though, especially in the light of a very stressful year.

DP and I nearly split up after a weekend away like this. I've never been so angry in my life.

To me, it's pure selfishness. He wants exactly what he wants all the time, but with kids in the mix that's impossible and you end up getting the blame.

I told DP that I would leave if he ever behaved like that again and if I'm honest we don't really travel as a family any more. It put me right off. DP is great, takes DS on all kinds of trips now but I just prefer making my own arrangements so we divide and conquer. Looking at the faces of families I see out and about, I don't miss it.

OP, are these his kids as well? I think he needs to chill out a bit. Teens are a bit moody and glued to their phones by nature- I’ve got 2 of those!! and when jet lagged it could be a whole different story.

have a chat with him about what his expectations are- this is a normal family holiday scenario IMO- maybe not the Starbucks one where he couldn’t find a seat and buggered off- but the waking up late etc is!

Did we read different ops?

Where is the mooching? 20 mins between wake up and shower on holiday is hardly mooching. Wtf are holidays for? And op said her son was in his phone.

There are so many people willing to make excuses for miserable abusive men. Ffs

OP in my view his moods and emotional state are ruling the family. My family wss exactly like this growing up and it was horrible. What was worse is my mum always did damage limitation with my dad putting him doest and pandering to him.

What makes him think he gets what he wants on holiday regardless of others?

Is he always so demanding and moody?

I don't know.

In your examples, you and the kids basically left him by himself while you 3 sat together. He was then ignored too. Then you all dithered about getting up and ready so he was left hanging around like a spare part again.

Do you often 'team up' against him? Could he just be frustrated and feel like an outsider sometimes? If he feels pushed out and then reacts so you all rush to appease him, that must feel good to him. The reaction makes him feel included again.

Is that abusive? I don't think it is BUT it isn't healthy or how we should treat others so does need to be discussed.

Your daughter's people pleasing is a real concern and if you can get her therapy for that now, she will have a better chance when she has adult relationships.

He’s not communicating his needs and then getting pissed off that nobody knows what he wants to do. His attitude is making everyone tense.
Have a glass of wine this evening and have a chat about expectations. Hope your holiday improves.

My DH was like that on family holidays. We had to do what he wanted, when he wanted otherwise he got angry then left for a while leaving us all panicking. Then he would return, see us waiting , and then we all went out to have a fun day. If I stood up to him he threw the nobody cares what I want, I don't know why I stay invoking more placating behaviour from myself and the children.

I thought it was normal (in a it must be my fault way). Twenty years later I am broken. Both my DDs are people pleasers and all three of us have serious mh issues in different ways. He hasn't changed. Still gets very angry if I disagree or we aren't waiting for him on days out. The kids still think it's normal and adore him.

Get the hell out. I'm serious.

I'd echo what @Pixiedust1234 said. My dad is very much like this, unfortunately not just on holiday. My sister's husband is like this too, she is divorcing him. But it's had an impact on me growing up and I can see that same impact on my nieces.

I've never felt good enough aim a reformed /reforming people pleaser. I have anxiety and have had bouts of depression. Of course I'm not blaming all of that only on my dad! But the family dynamic absolutely contributed to this.

Yes I understand that too and definitely find the kids faffing about really frustrating. It’s the way of addressing it that I find so draining. And ultimately it had the absolute opposite affect of speed which is doubly frustrating

Probably worth adding that this is quite typical behaviour. These were just the last couple of days holiday examples.
But yes also the product of stress from a difficult year for all of us and probably an idealised holiday aspiration which sometimes uncooperative teens don’t meet! They drove me batty too at times. Though to be fair they have their own holiday expectations too.
I’m just always stuck in the middle and I find that exhausting.

Thank you. We did do that and it was in the end a great day.

You will continue to lose grip on what's normal if you remain with this man for your own reasons. If he is behaving like this in public as well, what is he like behind closed doors?. Far worse I think.

What are you getting out of this relationship with him?. There must be something in this for you re him so what is it?.

You are living with a manipulative and otherwise abusive manchild. That's on you Claraitalarita as you've brought this bloke into your life as well as your kids lives. They likely cannot abide him at all and wonder why the hell you're with someone like this. Your own self is being subsumed by this man and soon you will not know which way is up. Doubtless too that he is mainly responsible for the complicated family dynamics you've put up with this past year as well.

Kids and kids and yours are teenagers. Your DD is being harmed here in this dynamic by feeling she has to fix things; a subject that you;ve already talked to her about.

Your man probably cannot stand the fact they are around at all and in addition you're not putting him first like you are supposed to do in his head. He's calling all the shots here and he's creating chaos in his wake.

This is how i I interpreted it too. I would be pretty miffed if my family did that!

I explained the Starbucks example badly. He had a table where you could stand with no seats. It was very busy. DS found a single gap where he could sit and DD was with DP standing. As I got my drink there was a gap next to DS so I went to sit too. Then DD asked DH came to join us as there was then one more space. By then he’d finished. It wasn’t the fact he left it that bothered me it was the anger with which he did it.

Yes, he is being controlling and manipulative. He seems to enjoy deliberately spoiling other people's enjoyment of the day, and using their behaviour as the reason for his arsehole shenanigans. Not a nice trait in anyone.

Who made him King of the family?