How important is conversation to you?

[SunsetOverParadise]

I know, the title seems weird. But it’s something I’ve been musing on lately. I’m someone who has high mental energy - I am deeply curious about everything. I love to learn, to read, to debate anything and everything. I think understanding and perspective is important.

I have started to notice a pattern with men I have been in relationships with. They are often drawn to me because of the above qualities, and at the start they join in and enjoy talking and they have strong opinions etc. All good. But at some point it’s as if they’ve given everything they have had in their heads and they just drop back to wanting to listen to me. It’s not that they become less interested in me - if anything, it feels like they expect me to show up and provide the mental stimulation and they just sit and soak it up, like I’m something to be admired. I ask their opinion - ‘I don’t know.’ I ask about them - ‘not a lot happened today.’ If I try and do similar - to say little, or keep it about the daily grind, they start asking me questions so I go deeper again. But they still don’t provide anything back.

I get really bored of it, if I’m honest. I choose to be with specific people because I’m interested in them. I want to hear their opinion. I want to receive of them. I do get that nobody can be ‘on’ all the time, and I really encourage personal space and time apart, participating in separate interests etc. But at some point if they aren’t refilling the cup, I’m going to drink it dry. And then what’s left?

I welcome honest thoughts on this. I’m fully aware that some people don’t care about having conversation or exchanging ideas. And that’s fine if that works for them. But I feel this is an integral part of who I am. I don’t want to date just a body.

Am I being too demanding? Is this unreasonable? I feel like maybe it’s my issue, if several men seem to just…run out of things. But at the same time I don’t understand how a person can go weeks on end just existing on rote.

I think your last observations are spot on. I don’t think it’s just about intelligence either, though it may factor in somewhere. I’ve always been in the frustrating position of partners saying to me ‘you’re so intelligent’ and it’s always said in a way where I always get the sense they don’t feel they stack up. And that’s so frustrating. I pick them precisely because I think they are smart. And it’s almost as if they freeze themselves into silence because they feel inadequate somehow, regardless of how much I try and big them up.

I’m also reaching an age where I’m a bit like, can I really be bothered to keep putting myself through this?

Sorry, missed this! I had to laugh reading it. Yes! I’m a bit miffed why they’re always okay with just…sitting around and making the odd bit of small talk. I just think, don’t you want to be doing things and having great adventures and putting the world to rights?

DH and I don't have this sort of Intellectual Conversation about Big Issues.

I mean we bat ideas around sometimes, but at some point one of us will say "But do you actually care?" and the answer, genuinely, is, "Errrmmmm, No." And then we will laugh and carry on just living our day happily.

However "interesting" a topic is, it's all about the outside world, about which ultimately we know jack shit. All I know about my strong opinions is that they tend to change over the years and have more to do with projecting my inner world than understanding the outer one. So I guess I choose to focus on the inner one, our bubble of reality.

Hmm that sounds tough! I agree with pp that they are trying hard at the start to (maybe subconsciously) impress you, but it's not who they naturally are so they run out of steam. I think you need somehow to try to get to know potential men before actually dating them, to try and find out if that is really who they are or not? Trying to think of hobby groups which might attract these types 🤔 Debating obviously, but then I'm stumped. Really tricky!

I'm a bit like you I think. I would say I mostly start the conversation topics with DH, but he does join in. On the other hand he is more proactive with thinking of stuff to actually do, so I feel it balances out. We both add interest to each others' lives, but we fill in where the other is not as strong. I think it works! Would something like this be a possibility for you? Accept that you lead in conversation topics, but your potential future DP should lead in something you are weaker at? Then you both gain.

Which I get, to a limited degree, but the bottom line is how long do I wait for him not to be tired? I’m not willing to waste my life on the drudgery.
I wouldn't wait too long if that's the only comment he makes tbh. It doesn't sound as if he's being entirely honest. With my current partner, I have sometimes wondered what he gets out of it: like you, he's the more knowledgeable one. The conversation doesn't dry up as I'm good at asking questions, joining things up and coming to conclusions, but I don't have as many actual facts to contribute. But I've addressed this topic openly, asking e.g. "have any of your previous partners been able to hold up their side of the conversation?!" (answer: not really, no, as @GreyCarpet describes!) I put in the effort - he is worth it - and I don't feel like I'm not good enough for him. He has his weak points (which he admits openly), I have mine and we're both willing to work with it: we're equal. Yours sounds like he might not feel that way; like you say, he feels inadequate.

Open, honest conversation, and if he's not the one for you, maybe try looking for a different type next time? Filter them out for someone who did well in public school debating society? :D

I agree with you in principle, but I think the most important part of a conversation is listening and knowing when to keep silent. Most people will start talking at length if you leave them enough space to do it, so I wonder if you're filling too much airspace with your own thoughts.

I'd try leaving long pauses and be really careful not to interrupt a chain of thought, even if it seems like an initial short answer. Personally, I've always found silence helpful in getting people to expand on their ideas.

This is quite interesting, I used to be a big debater but like a lot of people I think I’ve got so knackered by and caught up with work I’ve become much more dull. I’m trying to work on that.

Anyway I think the kind of man you want is relatively rare but not rare as hens teeth. You just need to be upfront with yourself about what you need - it’s not just someone who is bright and well educated (self educated or otherwise) with lots of interests and a voracious follower of news, a big reader and a consumer of culture (out and about at events etc), it’s someone who is a full on extrovert - someone who rarely needs to retreat from the world and who is emotionally sustained almost entirely by interactions with others rather than an interior life. I’d also very much look for a man with a big social circle of varied people, and specifically a lot of women friends - on the whole women do talk more, so this will be a good sign.

It will help if you live in a city and have a basic check list when assessing someone new (follow news / read / go out to events / have loads of friends etc). I think you need to date online if you don’t already, this is a numbers game.

From your side I think you are probably wanting too much from one person. Everyone needs a community made up of partner, family, friends, colleagues, acquaintances, local community, hobby partners etc. In your case you need lots of these people to be talkers and to come with stimulation attached.

Can you join salons and interest groups where there’s lots of discussion (again, helps to live in a city) to widening your friendship group. Taking some courses (eg a PT masters) you are interested in could be a good idea. Perhaps joining some community groups in your area. I don’t quite understand why you don’t have much time for friends if you feel you are under-stimulated?? I am assuming your job is stimulating enough, but could you get more involved with your industry through associations or conferences?

I’m all for being who you are, but I think you do need to address the fact you find it hard to be in silence with another person. Even for a pair of raving extroverts this is a bit odd. Being able to be with someone in silence is a very strong sign of a close emotional bond (a bit like a real life version of those staring into someone’s eyes exercises) and if you really can’t, it does indicate a certain anxiety to me. So maybe have a think about that. Of course sometimes you want to chat and the other person doesn’t, but then in those cases you should be able to entertain yourself for a bit.

I think you might be the OP’s worst nightmare..

People keep mentioning debating, but conversation is not debate
(though it can include debate). I like having conversations which light up the significance of the insignificant details of life, or conversations on significant issues where both people are reasonably well informed (and trust one another to be reasonably well informed).

A good conversation will have lots of moments where the other person's comment makes me see something in a different light, or inspires me to have a new thought. Some good conversations also have a lot of information and strong differences of opinion, but I find these sorts of exchanges can also become boring, because they involve too much lecturing or showing off.

I don't have many people in my life who I can do this with, and I think it must be largely my fault- just mulling it over and wondering why...

People are mentioning debating because OP said she likes debating things in her first post, giving the impression that she likes debate-style conversation.

I'm like you Op, and I think it's quite hard to find people who want to discuss deep stuff a lot. Most people prefer to chat about themselves and their own lives, which is interesting to a degree, but not enough on it's own
If I was OLD, I'd definitely have to have 'interested in politics/current affairs/history in my profile, which would probably put a lot of people off!! But save me boring them and vice versa.
Can you join groups/ attend events where you might meet like.minded people? As an example, I've seen these events called 'A Pint of Science' on FB, they're science presentations/discussions in pubs.

If I feel like I'm being interrogated, I shut down and give generic, non-committal answers. Maybe you're wanting to know too much too soon - sort of information overload and it comes across as a bit intense.

Personally I find it draining after a while if a guy is in hyperchat mode constantly and wants to know everything about everything - if it doesn't ease up after the initial nerves that make people yabber on. Companiable silence is just as important as chat and meaningful conversations in my book.

Having said that, it might just be that you haven't met anyone yet who's on the same conversational wavelength as you yet but if you feel it's you that's putting them off (hence your post on here?) then would it be worth trying to find a compromise - sort of ask yourself do I NEED to know the answer to the question I want to ask or am I just filling in the silence?

I just wanted to address a few of the things you’ve said because they’re generally inaccurate:

The first is more subjective, but extroverts usually drive me up the wall. I need my alone time. I want other people to have their alone time. I don’t like huge groups of people and I don’t need to be constantly stimulated by other people. That’s really not what I’m saying. I’m actually pretty introverted.

Which leads me onto the second point: silence. I love silence. And I can easily be with someone else in silence. But in that silence I would be doing my own thing and they would be doing their thing. Such as reading, for example. I don’t need to be surrounded by noise. What I’m saying is that I can’t just be in silence with someone, when I’m not able to do something else, endlessly, without conversation. In a relationship. I may as well be dating the skirting board. Because if all we do is sit in silence how can they be giving of themselves?

I don’t feel under stimulated in life generally. I’m rarely bored on my own. I work full time, I am doing post-grad part time, I write, I’m learning an instrument, I have a side business.

I think you’ve got completely the wrong end of the stick.

This!

I like people who notice things. Who think outside the box. Who are creative. I like people to be strong where I am weak so I can learn from them. One of the things that attracted me to my current partner was his completely different outlook on life. He has an energy where I don’t, and skills where I lack.

If you ever gain insight from you’re mulling, I’d love to know!

Thank you, I’ll look into that. :)

This is definitely worth me considering, thank you. I can’t help but think it’s me because of the pattern. But at the same time I have trouble understanding why anyone would be happy with only making very minor small talk, and just rubbing along for years, maybe consuming media together but never discussing it. I just don’t really get why I’d bother being in a relationship for that.

Conversations and talking is one thing my DP and I really connected over when we met. I also had relationships that just really became boring like this, with just chit chat. DP and I are interested in so many of the same topics we have lots to talk about a lot of the time. He also likes to learn from me and teach me things. There are topics I was never interested in before I met him but now I am. I realised relationships are only going to work if you like that person as a friend. If you wouldn’t even be friends with them as they don’t interest you very much or have the same communication style as then they might not make the most dynamic partner in the long run and you have to decide if to get your stimulation elsewhere or keep looking. It’s also more than basic common interests too like liking the same music as that can only be talked about to a limited extent. We separately watch a lot of informative (history, science, politics) YouTube channels and then discuss what we think of them for instance. he’s not a big reader so I am not going to talk to him about books (which I like) but we were able to find something we can talk about.

i think the difference between partners and friends is that we see more of our partners. I love talking with my husband, but there are days when either one of us is depleted of energy and there is no way to have a meaningful conversation.

One thing I've noticed is that straight after work the "how was your day" conversation can be very monosyllabic...but once we have had some food and rest things start coming out in the "I did this, this happened, saw this, read this, met so-and-so..."

I think it's inevitable to some extent. When you're first gutting to know someone you can draw on your whole life for interesting knowledge and anecdotes, but once that's done, you only learn a certain amount of interesting stuff per day. Some of which might not be of interest to your partner.

You just haven't found your person yet. I had a similar situation with friends until I found my "tribe". My DH can chat and discuss things, although he does get a bit monosyllabic after a day at work. Doesn't mean he's not intelligent, far from it, but he doesn't think about things as deeply as I do, or as frequently. I get my mental stimulation from audio books and podcasts (as well as friends when I see them).

Extravert doesn’t mean you like big crowds especially, or that you are especially loud (those people are - usually - extraverts, but they are one type) - generally it just means that you are turned outward and get energised mainly by interactions with others. An introvert wouldn’t usually need as much stimulation from a partner as you describe yourself as wanting.

I’m glad you have lots of stimulation in your life, but I still think from your descriptions of what is missing in your relationships you are expecting too much of your life partner. This is not unusual, we have a cultural expectation in Western society these days that we get virtually everyone from our one and only, but it’s incredibly difficult to do that, especially if you need a lot from people.

SO, if it’s not stimulation you’re lacking, I would look at the quality and perhaps also quantity of other relationships in your life.

I don’t think many people could be in silence endlessly, so if you are able to do it some of the time then strike that - it sounds like that’s a problem with the men you are picking rather than you.