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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do i proceed......... argument with dad

18 replies

Homebaby · 21/07/2023 11:28

Looking for some clarification/ideas/advice after another blow up with my df.
We've never had an easy relationship, him and mum split up when I was late teens and was a classic case of should have separated sooner. She left for someone else and I stayed with dad. Mum was never particularly present in my life, dad was working so although no neglect as such I do in hindsight feel like emotionally I was never really supported. We mostly get on ok on a surface level now and speak daily.
I will say that dad helps me, financially if I need it although I work hard and support myself, and without being outing helps me with something daily. The latest argument came about because I arranged for a tradesperson to come and do a job related to this and he said he would oversee as I was working (my job didn't end up happening but too late to do anything about it) He was late because he couldn't find a piece of equipment, he rang me and I told him where to look. Apparently he had and it wasn't there. I advised a solution and that was that. By the time he got to the meeting point the person had driven off so he rang me and I swore, not at him, I said ffs. It had taken me a month to get someone so I admit I was pissed off. He said the person shouldn't have left so I said you shouldn't have been late. Long story short the item was found where I said to look and he hadn't looked properly, he said I should have left it out and had I told him said item was definitely where I said he'd have looked again, because I told him to try there instead he didn't. Plus I should have left it out for him. Also that I blame him for everything that goes wrong (no examples given, just everything)
The following day he said its going to take him a long time to get over the way I spoke to him and that I have no respect. Also keeps asking why I hate him so much.
My problem is that I know I am always one step away from being angry with him. He's an alcoholic and lives in a filthy home. Bar sitting with him when he was ill last year I haven't visited for years. He was taken very ill a few years back and I cleaned the place from top to bottom for when he came home. It's now worse than ever again. He admits he knows that's why I don't visit but gets angry if I ask him to do anything about it. Same with the drinking, I've not called him past 5pm for years because he'll be drunk. If I bring it up he gets angry. He missed one of the proudest moments of my life because he was drunk and forgot about it. When I said that hurt me he just said I'll stop drinking but for me to stop telling him what to do. I've no idea if he has as I'm scared to ask.
Our last conversation was him saying I needed to think about how I speak to him and let him know what kind of relationship I want with him.
I'm struggling with that because I know I feel resentment towards him and don't know how to overcome it. To the outside world he helps me and is a perfect dad. To me, yes he helps me, but anything I say that he doesn't like he sets off on one so the underlying issues are never dealt with.
Apologise for the essay. If you made it to the end I've cake haha. Any tips, ideas of how to go forward without everything blowing up again?

OP posts:
DustyLee123 · 21/07/2023 11:31

You need to go NC and sort your own life out. He won’t change so the situation won’t change.

Ahwhatthehell · 21/07/2023 11:39

I guess it all depends on what relationship you want - it’s not all about him and how ‘he can’t get over it’. You have an opinion that counts too. I’d be inclined to say to him that when he’s ‘ready and over it’ to come back to you then. Then I’d have a full and frank conversation with him about his shortcomings as a father. You’re an adult too - there’s a reason you feel the way you do that’s perfectly valid.

Unless you’re prepared to go nc- which is absolutely your right too.

Spinet · 21/07/2023 11:44

Find someone else to help with the thing or some other way of doing it.

Then you can decide what kind of relationship you want to have with him, if any. I have a parent with similar issues and this is what I have done. I am still in regular touch with them as I sometimes enjoy their (weird) perspective on stuff but I rely on them for nothing.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 21/07/2023 11:44

Both your parents have let you down abjectly, it’s not your fault that this happened. That is all on them.

Your dad’s primary relationship is with drink and his thoughts centre around drink and where the next drink is going to come from. Gifts too should come with ribbons, not strings and I would not accept any more money from him as it’s just used to keep you both controlled and feeling obligated to him. Alcoholism as well thrives on secrecy so I would start telling a couple of other trusted people the truth about your dad. They may well already have their own private based suspicions about him.

The 3cs of alcoholism are you did not cause it, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it. He’s asking the impossible of you really and you will not have a nice life so long as you remain in his life in any way. No more cleaning his place as such effort from you was neither warranted nor actually appreciated by him. Let him live in squalor. Find someone else too to do the help he helps you with daily. He cannot be relied upon at all.

He will keep letting you down. He is not going to change nor become the nice non alcoholic dad you want either, this is who he really is and has been all along. He will never give you the approval that you perhaps still seek but as an adult you do not need his approval anyway. Let go of any and all hope he will change. All you can do is change how you react to him and I would walk away entirely from him. He does not deserve you in his life at all.

Homebaby · 21/07/2023 11:57

@Ahwhatthehell thank you. I think that's the problem, he doesn't see that my emotions or opinions are valid so isn't receptive at all when I bring things up. Leaves me thinking that it's me with the problem and that I'm ungrateful.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 21/07/2023 12:06

It’s not you, it’s him. Remove yourself from his life. His primary relationship is with drink and his thoughts centre around that and where the next drink is going to come from. He’s further using you to prop him up.

Brefugee · 21/07/2023 12:09

I would just LC with him (without telling him) and make sure you have other people to cover the things he does for you.

If he notices and asks tell him, truthfully, that you can't be around him and why.

Ahwhatthehell · 21/07/2023 12:12

Homebaby · 21/07/2023 11:57

@Ahwhatthehell thank you. I think that's the problem, he doesn't see that my emotions or opinions are valid so isn't receptive at all when I bring things up. Leaves me thinking that it's me with the problem and that I'm ungrateful.

All you can do is tell him to inform you when he’s ready to talk to contact you and let him be to sit and stew. Then if he’s not willing to take on board your feelings in all this, he’s not worth turning yourself inside and out for.

He has issues that aren’t of your doing and it may be impossible for him to put your feelings before them. In other words, a bit of a shit dad. It’ll be up to him to prove himself.

Homebaby · 21/07/2023 12:13

@AttilaTheMeerkat that was a hard read but spot on, thank you.
The father and relationship I want isn't the reality, it's just so hard to let go of the fact that it never will be. On a day to day basis when we're chatting about the weather etc he's fine, times like the other day when he's pretty much spitting venom over the phone and telling me my emotions are bullshit is the real him isn't it. His mother was an alcoholic, she used to pinch me, slap me and give me Chinese burns when I was a kid and nothing was ever said to stop it. I think part of me has always felt sorry for him because that would have been his upbringing.
I do seek his approval still, like I need him to be proud of me. When I had my success I had people I didn't even know personally contacting me minutes later, all I could think was where was dad's message. He refuses to acknowledge how that upset me to this day.
I've had therapy to try and untangle why I've always picked emotionally unavailable men, ironically I think the answer lies right here.
One question if you don't mind? How do i go nc when I will worry about him spiralling? I know (as does he but refuses to do anything practical about it) that he's depressed. I'm not sure I could cope with the guilt if he's done something silly to himself 😔

OP posts:
Seaoftroubles · 21/07/2023 12:40

I would go LC to begin with so you can still be in contact if you wish but on your terms. Don't rely on him and find someone else to help you with the previous assistance he gave, as that was probably another way to have a hold over you. @AttilaTheMeerkat is right, as an Alcoholic drink is his priority and you will always come second and you need to protect yourself and not feel guilty. He is perfectly capable of seeking help for his alcoholism and his depression, it's not your job to help fix him, that's something only he can do.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 21/07/2023 12:46

You are not and have never been ;responsible for his choices nor actions.

I would read about codependency and see how much of this reflects in your own behaviour to your father. you are likely to be codependent to your dad.
We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents, look at what yours taught you. A shedload of damaging lessons.

Alcohol as well acts as a depressant and he is likely to be self medicating with alcohol. He is not worried nor all that concerned about you so I would not give him the same consideration. He also failed to protect you from being hurt as a child by his mother, herself an alcoholic.

He is truly not worthy of you, neither of your parents are.

Homebaby · 21/07/2023 15:36

@AttilaTheMeerkat I will read up thank you.

OP posts:
Homebaby · 21/07/2023 15:42

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to reply, it's given me some perspective and much needed validation that I'm not a rubbish daughter for feeling how I do.
Sorry to those who also have a difficult relationship with their parent/s, it's a tough one to navigate.

OP posts:
Ponderingwindow · 21/07/2023 15:57

You can’t have a normal relationship with an alcoholic. They will always expect the people around them to conform to their will and blame them when it doesn’t happen. I don’t quite understand why, but they can only see the world from their own perspective.

you can still have a relationship with an alcoholic parent, but you have to keep a measured distance. You already have one of the standard rules in place, knowing not to call when you know they are likely to have been drinking. The biggest one really is that the relationship is going to be somewhat superficial. You can’t rely on an alcoholic, not physically or emotionally. They will always put themselves first and blame you if you point out the problem.

Homebaby · 21/07/2023 18:14

@Ponderingwindow thank you for your reply. That's exactly it, when everything is fine there's no problem but as soon as there's a difference of opinion or an issue all of these things show up and I'm expected to conform. If I was the kind of person to let it go over my head I'm sure we'd be fine all of the time but I'm not, he doesn't seem to accept that I'm a fully functioning adult with the ability to stand up for myself. I don't know how much of this is just him and how much is the alcohol if I'm honest.
As regards phone calls, I resent that I can't pick the phone up whenever and I resent that I can't do what most people do and drop in to their parents home for a cuppa. I'm not blowing my own trumpet but through my work I've enabled him to have some great days out and experiences. What he helps me with helps him aswell so it's all on his terms.
What I've taken most from the replies today is that it's never going to change and I need to let go of the thought that it will. Then I can find a way to drop the anger and resentment.

OP posts:
Comtesse · 21/07/2023 19:07

I think you are allowed to feel angry if you want to. Your feelings count too! He might want you to keep your mouth closed, but it’s not his decision - you are a capable person in your own right, and very much entitled to your perspective.

NotBotheredAnymore · 21/07/2023 19:25

He is doing something for you daily, and occasionally bails you out, you both sound like you are stuck in a father/child relationship mindset. You need to be in an adult/adult relationship,

Get someone else in to help you, rejig your life so you aren't so reliant on him. Step back from cleaning his house. If he wants to live like that it is his choice. You wait until he asks for help.

Btw I agree with him. You should have got the right equipment out ready.

Homebaby · 21/07/2023 20:03

@NotBotheredAnymore thank you, I agree re the adult/adult relationship, have thought it myself before. I still feel like a child when we're talking.
I wish I had put the item out, it's just something that's always there somewhere, usually visible and there's not many places to look tbh so didn't even think to. Turns out he'd used it last and put it somewhere it's never been before, I just guessed as it was the only other place I could think of!

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