would appreciate a man's insder knowledge

[wessexwomen]

my husband and I have - I think and he agrees (but he is not very forthcoming - says anything for a quiet life!!) that our sex life is pretty good.

Why then does he 'sneak off' to watch soft porn on the tv? On occasions he would rather 'w..k' off whatching late night phone sex calls than have sex with me. He doesnt know I know that he 'sneaks off'. He watched stuff on internet and I found out and was deeply hurt cos he would rather that than have me, so I havent approached him about this. I have watched the tv stuff with him a couple of times, making out that I have just 'stumbled' across it, so he knows it isnt really 'out of bounds'. He has now been getting up early in the mornings to watch stuff then - and I don't even know what is on at 7.oo that is so bad that he has to pretend he is not watching tv. (he pulls the aerial for the upstairs tv out of the socket - that how I know he is watching stuff he doesnt want me to see). I feel unwanted cos he could have me anytime - and even says sometimes he is too tired. Thats fine too - I'm a cool and open minded enough so I'm not totally opposed to being titivated myself, i just feel hurt and bewildered that he would prefer watching that to me. Can anyone throw some light on this for me - I feel very hurt?

Probably beacuse sometimes it is just easier to just have to relieve himself and not have to worry whether you are satisfied or not!

DH watches porn and sometimes we watch it together, I have no problem with it UNLESS it ever became a preference all the time or he was showing signs of becoming obsessed with it.

i think Pedilla sums it up perfectly (I'm a man by the way). There have been loads of threads recently about porn and you might find some of them interesting.

I look at porn on the net occasionally, sometimes a couple of times a week, sometimes never for a month or two. I can honestly say that most men i know, be they the types you would expect to do it and those you wouldn't, look at porn. It doesn't in any way replace my DW. Like Pedilla said, it is just sometimes easier/more accessible/an escape/a fantasy (tick where appropriate). As has been discussed elsewhere, men are visual creatures and sometimes visual stimulus enhances masturbation. If we can accept that both men and women frequently masturbate, i do not think it is too big a step to accept a man masturbating to porn as, without wishing to fall into stereotypes, a man's porn is probably the equivalent of a woman's fertile mind.

However, and it is a big however, it does become an issue if the behaviour is becoming habitual bordering on obsessive and if he systematically prefers porn to you. If your sex life remains good, I do not really see it as a problem as it seems that the porn is augmenting his sex life rather than replacing any part of it.

As for 7a.m., I am no expert on tv porn but I do know two things. Firstly, the stuff available on satellite is extremely tame and softcore (regualtions insist on this) and I am not sure that these channels are even still broadcasting at 7a.m., although I may stand to be corrected on this.

So, bottom line is if it is not becoming obsessive or it is not directly replacing your sex life with him, I probably would not worry too much. He is just being a bloke (shoot me down for saying that!). Unless of course you have a fundamental issue with porn itself, which is totally understandable, and you would have to broach with your DH.

I do hope that helps, if you want to press me further, feel free to reply.

thanks for your replies. They are both helpful. I'm trying to sort out whether I am overreacting. I do feel though, that it's the STRANGENESS of what he is whatching that baffles me, and I feel excluded and concerned cos its strange. As you said postingatlast, there is nothing on at 7 in the morning, yet he is definitely disabling the upstairs telly, some mornings before he goes to work, so he can watch telly downstairs without me seeing what he is watching. There is nothing on that I know of except very tame - as you said - lads lounges type stuff, or text channels. so what can he be watching??! How should I approach it, or don't I need to? I am surprised how excluded I feel - and it is because I am baffled about what he is watching. By the way -typical man! - WILL NOT have any kind of 'feeling' conversation and HATES any kind of confrontation - even calmly done. He's a lovely strong man and I am mad about him - but he is a closed book only operates with me about the children and being buddies who have sex twice a week!! (that romantic, feeling thingy he doesnt do...)

does your dvd/video channel run through the house too? i.e. if he does not disconnect the tv upstairs, would you be able to see what he is watching on dvd downstairs?

When I look at porn it is always when I am on my own and 99% of the time when DW is out of the house. Sometimes I'll even look at it at work but please do not tell my boss!!! Therefore my DW never has cause to ask "what were you watching?". She knows I look at porn sometimes however (we also watch it together on occasion) so if I am up late because I cannot sleep and she walks in on me, I won't hide what I am looking at.

So, even though your DH is not the open type, I still think it is very normal to ask him what he is doing at 7am. Watching a bit of porn is not the issue, doing things in front of your partner but behind her back (if you see what I mean!) is an issue. The fact that he is acting oddly at 7am when you are clearly in the house gives you every right to ask him what he is doing. That is one of the sitations where a partners actions IS imapcting on his relationship.

It is probably going to be something innocent but don't be afraid to ask him. Ask him when he is disconnecting the telly. "Honey, why are you doing that?!" in a nice confused tone... say you want to watch telly in bed and you cannot because he has disabled it!

Can't you just go downstairs and walk in on him??? Innocently...

Also, 7am is a very odd and early time to be watching!!

Good luck and let us know what happens...

I know its an odd time that is what is unnerving me. We have satellite tv and the bedroom telly cable for that channel is plugged into main telly, so he just disconnects that from main telly so he can watch sat tv. The land channels are still available on the bedroom telly but the sat channel is just snowstorm.

I would love to be able to talk to DH but because he doesnt do 'talking' about anything problematical I am afraid he will just agree not to do it again and then do it when I'm not around. And that's ok but I still feel there may be a problem and he is not discussing and I won't be aware of it and that is really unnerving too! Am I making sense or just a mountain out of a molehill? I'm a pretty good listener and able to talk about stuff calmly but he just always feels threatened - I mean really threatened. For years I thought he found tights sexy cos he told me they were sexy, rather than risk a disagreement about what was sexiest tights or stockings (as if I didnt know!!)

it sounds to me (and without wanting to come over all analytical on you!) that, as is often the case with issues such as porn, it is the concurrent issues which are more important. By this I mean that it is bringing up your frustration about how poorly he communicates and the fact he always feels threatened. This, for me, is the issue, much more than the fact that he may or may not be watching porn.

So, yes, you are making sense and no, the molehill is not yet a mountain. But it will become one if you do not confront the key issue of communication between the two of you, while asking him what he is doing at 7am. My experience tells me that often these things are nowhere near as bad as they seem but they do grown in importance the longer they are not discussed.

I hope that helps.

gosh your good!! We get along terricially well, however talking about feelings, or'difficult' problems - not even particularly big ones - has always been a problem for us. sooo, back to that again...!! sorry about picking your brains like this, but - where do I start? We have even been to counselling because I felt I just could not talk to him any longer in a meaningful way (for me), and he detested the experience - on the second session I knew we could not go back, because DH may not ever forgive me for 'making him go'. His reason? 'that man made you cry?!!' Anything emotional goes REALLY deep with him. He shuts down. Although was great when he was wooing me!! Any tips on how to engage would be so gratefully received. And yes, I know we may have to look at a professional person again, but he justs sees that as me flagging up that he is failing.... any tips in the meantime though to start a conversation not even about the porn stuff, but just about nice, touchy, feely 'romantic' sentiments...??? Don't feel under pressure..??!!

two years on....

Relationship failing badly. Did we ever have a good sex life?! down to once a week now. I have no sex drive, no longer make effort. Of course I could dress up in stuff he likes, and he would respond. But over last few months I have just grown so tired of trying to maintain the 'couple' part of our RS. The bit that involves a conversation and eyecontact, that is not about house or children, meals out, walks, etc. He absolutely does not 'get' what that is. Or pretends he gets it on the occasions I have an outburst (about every 3-6 months). An outburst is me saying clearly that I do not feel we are happy, or I am needed by him and I explain why, and the changes that have happended etc. They are real changes in him, For instance no longer wanting to have sex with me particularly, preferring to watch some sex stuff on tv most mornings (maybe a DVD he has - I don't know). When I ask him about this (again only every few months cos he HATES confrontation) he says 'its only a chap thing, course I love you, we just go to bed too late, too tired,...' but nothing changes. there are no obvious worries he has. I feel heartbroken. 7 years on and the swift change from loving my company to 'needing his own headspace' etc is huge. If I am doing something wrong I want to change that, but he refuses to tell me what I am doing 'wrong'. Just smiles and says I'm lovely. I feel soo lonely..

Another man here...

I think the biggest problem you've got is communication. It simply isn't happening.

Men tend to think and communicate functionally. If you talk to a man about a problem he will try and solve it, whereas you may simply want him to empathise. Men will tend to chat about the house, children, holidays and other practical stuff rather than have proper conversations. That doesn't mean they can't do it but it isn't their normal approach. After all, most men spend a substantial part of every day in work where communication is expected to be primarily functional.

The amount of sex does go down over time with any long term relationship. It becomes a problem when one partner wants more sex than the other.

It is also true that, after wanting to be together every minute of the day, most people start to want some time to themselves once the relationship has been going for a while. This is ok as long as you are both happy with it.

An "agony aunt" response to this would be to say that you can't change him. You can only change yourself. Even if you could change him, he can't make you happy. You are responsible for your own happiness.

Of course, if you change it may change the way he reacts to you. I don't know him but if he sees a relaxed, confident, beautiful woman who isn't pressuring him for sex or conversations and who accepts him just the way he is, he may want to have more sex with her and spend more time with her. You may feel you aren't pressuring him for sex or conversations now, but that isn't necessarily how he sees it.

What is the biggest problem? Is it the sex, the lack of communication or something else?

And I note that in one of your earlier posts you describe what he is watching as strange. Do you feel able to tell us in what way it is strange? That may give some insights into his mind (or, indeed, your mind!).

Thank for your response. You are right ofcourse, he is not responsible for my happiness. It was the swiftness of the change in our being a 'couple'. Almost overnight, once we were married (second time for both of us. His was a widow, I was divorced). The strangeness I am referring too, I think is the oddness of the time that he disconnects the tv upstairs. It happens at a time in the morning when there is not any porn on tv, yet clearly he is self satisfying. I have no issues with that (don't think I have any anyway??!, but I do feel hurt that he turns to porn/soft porn FAR more than to me. Our sex life has always been -apparently- good, laid back, explorative. Mainly though, I miss him wanting to connect with me, as a person. That is what I mean about eyecontact, etc. I don't seem to have any 'pull' for him anymore. He has NO interest in taking me out: does it once every couple of months as a treat for me??! I have things I intend to tell him about my work or something and unless its gossip he is not interested. HELP!! I am feeling so rejected

I don't think he's 'turning' to anything. I am female, but I do enjoy porn and DP doesn't (for religious reasons) indulge. To me - and I expect others would agree - it's not the same kind of experience. I doubt your partner ever saw porn as an alternative to sex with you.

Forgot to say (you will wish you had never responded!) he only likes harmony. Yet he moans about the nitty gritty of life - how hard it is, etc. Yet we have no real practical problems. So he is often a little petulant. Anyway, so often I imagine I am a beautiful, fulfilled woman who is not 'needy' etc and what do you think happens? This man who loves harmony is not happy until he has knocked my mood. Truly, I have 'tested' this theory. I have refused to be miserable over his moans, and just smiled and been pleasant and agreed with him, and he gets consistently more miserable and then when I suddenly can't keep it up in the face of such bleakness and the smile wobbles and I snap at the children, he becomes more relaxed and smiley. What is that about?

That sounds like the classic problem of someone who thinks he hasn't got to try so hard once he's married. I would imagine he was this way during his first marriage too. As he was widowed, presumably his first wife was happy, or at least tolerated his behaviour.

I'll be honest - once a week is about as much sex as I have with my wife at the moment. You say that you have no sex drive. Put the porn to one side for a moment. Are you happy with the amount of sex you are having? If you are, I would suggest that we need to think about the way you react to him watching porn. If you aren't, maybe you would react to the porn differently if you were getting enough sex.

You seem to regard the porn as a competitor to you, almost as if he is being unfaithful, which hurts. You aren't the only woman who thinks like that. I have a good friend who divorced her husband partly because he watched porn.

From a male point of view, it isn't a competitor at all. I don't watch porn and/or masturbate as an alternative to having sex with my wife. It is something I do as well as, not instead of. It certainly doesn't reduce the amount of sex in our relationship. Indeed, it sometimes helps - occasionally we will watch something together and, as my wife also gets turned on by porn, it will usually lead to excellent sex.

For what it is worth, research has established that there is a good biological reason why men masturbate. It gets older sperm out of their system so that, when they have sex with their partner, she gets all the fit, healthy, new sperm.

It is possible your husband is using porn as an alternative to sex if he finds it too difficult to have sex with you, e.g. because he isn't sure how to start (it is surprising how that can happen to a couple over time) or because it takes too long to get you aroused. Your description hints at that with his stuff about going to bed too late, etc. I wonder how he would react if you seduced him on the floor of the kitchen. I'm sure you know this but you don't have to wait until you go to bed.

I think he is probably still loves you and would be devastated if you left. However, he obviously finds it difficult to communicate that to you. I wish I could get into his mind. Why doesn't he want to talk to you about your work? Is it that he feels he can't contribute anything? Is he genuinely not interested? Is it that something you've said or done has wrongly made him feel he can't talk to you about that? Unfortunately I have no way of knowing.

Similarly, why does he not want to take you out more? Does he feel guilty going out without the children? Is he just a homebody who isn't that interested in going out (as opposed to not wanting to go out with you)?

All of this feels like a personal rejection to you but is it? Is he actually rejecting you or is this just the way he is? If I were to ask you to list 20 ways in which he shows you he loves you, could you answer that question?

I don't have any easy answers I'm afraid. What I'm trying to do is challenge your way of thinking about the situation. I don't know if that will help at all. I am, after all, a man! But I can empathise. I felt like this during my first marriage. By the time she finally showed that she did love me it was too late. So I know how you are feeling.

The fact that your husband would rather get his jollies from watching other people have sex than by actually having sex with you is a big problem afaiac. Yes, it is true that the amount of sex in a relationship will go down over time, but I think that the inference from one poster that it is your fault for pressuring him into sex is ridiculous. if he is feeling pressured into having sex once a week and yet is happy to pleasure himself, something is wrong. At the very least it is extremely selfish and destructive to your self esteem OP. The problem here, as I see it, is not that he wants less sex than she does, it is that he doesn't want sex with her.

I suppose ultimately it depends whether you can live with it Op. His excuses sound just that - excuses. Personally, if it was making me as unhappy as you sound, I would have to get it sorted one way or another.

I should state upfront that I do have some issues with porn. I never used to - and am aware of its non-threatening, fantasy status in general - but ready availability seems to be making the porn 'addiction' problem far more prevalent in relationships. Porn addiction means somebody using porn in preference to real-life sex with their regular partner.

Internet sex also means the lines between porn and infidelity are blurred. The end result is that more men are using other women as masturbation aids. If that sounds harsh, it was meant to. Porn does objectify women. In the case of online sex, punters even get to use an individual all by themselves.

From everything you've said, OP, I'm afraid your H is one of those men for whom women are 'objects'. He doesn't bother communicating naturally with you (lack of eye contact, etc), is irritated if you get out of your 'place' (too grumpy, too happy, too chatty) and generally treats you like a household pet. You do sound very unhappy - understandably, I feel!

I wonder if you've thought of going to Relate by yourself? If you get a good counsellor, they can do wonders in helping you get a fresh perspective on your life; maybe you'll see changes you can make for your own happiness, and watch for developments from there.

I was going to post something along similar lines as Grace, I'd say it is a big issue and a symptom of a much deeper problem with him, he doesn't seem to care about or want to understand your needs at all.
If he prefers using porn rather than having real sex with you, it is a big problem.

I think the biggest problem here is that there are 2 years between the OP and the update

Nothing has changed in those 2 years

The partners are still not communicating

The OP "cannot talk" to her partner

He still gets his kicks outside of the relationship

Very, very strange...and certainly fucked-up, in my view

The 7am starts ? Not ringing true...why has OP never challenged them...or just got her arse out of bed and demanded to know what the fuck he is doing ?

This relationship is either not real...or has no viable future I am afraid

AF , I wondered that too. If you want to know what's going on at 7am, get up, sneak down the stairs and look surely?

Not meaning to be harsh but can't imagine letting this go on for two days never mind two years!

hellooo belle < big grin >

summat very mixed-up here

Anyfucker...are you on here late tonight..?

dunno, dp

depends if I get a better offer

why ?

Ha ha...

I have to sign off here now, will you keep chatting to norks...she sounds pretty low......

Thanx

Sayithowitis - I was not intending to make that inference, although I can see why you think I did. My apologies. I very much doubt the OP is pressuring him for sex. He may, of course, feel that she is even if she isn't. That is a different matter.

I agree with other posters that there is a problem if porn becomes a replacement for intimacy. In this case I don't think it is because they still have a sex life and the OP describes it as good, laid back, explorative. That sounds to me like he still wants intimacy but I may be wrong - I'm only a man. However, if he is really using porn as a replacement for intimacy I would expect the sex to be little more than a quick f*ck (if you'll pardon the expression).

I understand where the other posters are coming from when they talk about "objectification of women", etc. I can only speak for myself and say that I certainly don't view the women in the porn I watch as objects and it certainly doesn't lead to me using women as masturbation aids. Sex with a woman is much more fun than masturbation or watching porn, not least because it is a mutual thing - you want to give her at least as much pleasure as she gives you. I always feel guilty if my wife fails to come. However, I do know some men who think of women as objects.

To the OP (you seem to have used your real name - I presume that was a mistake!) thank you for your comments in your last post. I'm glad to help.

I completely agree that approaching sex the way you describe your husband doing is a real turn off. Some men don't seem to know how to be any different with their partner. They can do it when they are courting but once it becomes a permanent relationship they seem to forget how to go about seducing their partner. Perhaps they think it isn't necessary any more. I came across one man who always tried to initiate sex by saying, "I wonder if I'm going to get lucky tonight". He couldn't understand why his partner always turned over and went to sleep when he said that. Idiot.

Back to your husband... I don't know him but I'm beginning to relate to him a little. I've changed but there was definitely a time when my then wife would get very little out of me if she tried to talk to me. Often it was because I was trying to think about some problem at work (or occasionally elsewhere) that I didn't want to discuss with her. I'm much better now and talk to my wife about almost everything!

I wonder if there is any mileage in going to counselling by yourself, perhaps even without telling him. That may help you to understand why you react to him the way you do, which may be a first step towards improving things. I'm not saying (or implying) that it is your fault. He is the typical male who is not communicating. But, as I said before, changing the way you react to him will be a lot easier than changing him.

I feel for you and I really do hope you can sort this out.